Keir Starmer

[Red Phoenix]

edit : nm, beaten to it.

[Sugar Ape]

50 minutes ago, Numero said:

Yeah, I know it’s not in the report (I mentioned it earlier) but I wanted to ask Gnasher which part so he had to admit he hasn’t read the report and was making it up. 

 

Cock blocker. 

Think your face does a good enough job of that without my help. 

[Bruce Spanner]

At least squarkbox has content for the next coupla weeks.

[Numero Veinticinco]

Just now, Sugar Ape said:

Think your face does a good enough job of that without my help. 

[Strontium]

10 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Think she was talking about friends of Israel.

 

White supremacists?

[Numero Veinticinco]

11 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Think she was talking about friends of Israel.

Oh that is fucking out of line. He’s not out clubbing seals, sniping kids, or lynching black people. He did a polite zoom call with a group of people who had questions first off about issues of antisemitism in the party he leads and on how to win back power. 

 

Likening the people in that video I posted to white supremacists are just a great example of where these Trump-esque weirdos are at. In short... what a twunt. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, Numero said:

 

 

Sick to the tits of the ubiquitous and persistent lie that JLM is "the Jewish community", rather than just another shower of Apartheid apologists, as bad as the LFI.

https://www.jewishlabour.uk/about

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

11 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

White supremacists?

 

5 minutes ago, Numero said:

 

Likening the people in that video I posted to white supremacists are just a great example of where these Trump-esque weirdos are 

Maybe she just should have said "Imagine if... spend the day with Labour Friends of South Africa".

(Except, of course, there never was such a group, because opposition to racism used to be a given in the Labour Party. )

[Strontium]

4 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Sick to the tits of the ubiquitous and persistent lie that JLM is "the Jewish community", rather than just another shower of Apartheid apologists, as bad as the LFI.

https://www.jewishlabour.uk/about

 

 

 

Freedom, social justice and equality sounds reasonable to me, what's your issue with it?

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Angela "I used to regularly appear on stage with Corbyn and practically rim him off, but don't do that anymore as it's not beneficial for me to do so" Rayner needs to be reminded that she can't suspend thousands of Labour members, particularly since the EHRC report stated that there shouldn't be any political interference in the complaints and disciplinary process. 

 

The wrong/right kind of political interference? 

[Strontium]

1 minute ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Maybe she just should have said "Imagine if... spend the day with Labour Friends of South Africa".

(Except, of course, there never was such a group, because opposition to racism used to be a given in the Labour Party. )

 

Except the analogy doesn't work on an elementary level, because Jews in Judea, like blacks in South Africa, are the natives.

[Dougie Do'ins]

1 hour ago, Captain Howdy said:

I’m genuinely starting to think Labour enjoy being the party of opposition, nothing else could explain this slapstick.

It mightn't be a bad time to be in opposition. We'd all like to think Labour would have handled the pandemic better but we'll never really know. It could well be better for Labour not to be in the firing line.

 

So, with what shit is still to come from the virus shitstorm and the impending fallout from Brexit. As I say, it might not be a bad time to be the opposition.

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 minute ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Sick to the tits of the ubiquitous and persistent lie that JLM is "the Jewish community", rather than just another shower of Apartheid apologists, as bad as the LFI.

https://www.jewishlabour.uk/about

 

 

Now, I’ve pre-read it twice just in case, but Starmer’s tweet doesn’t say JLM is the Jewish Community. You’re continually calling things out as lies, but you’re wide of the mark. 
 

Did you watch the Zoom call video? 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

4 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

Freedom, social justice and equality sounds reasonable to me, what's your issue with it?

Those things sound great. So much so that I wouldn’t align myself with any government committed to denying them to people on the grounds of their ethnicity. 

[Strontium]

Just now, AngryofTuebrook said:

Those things sound great. So much so that I wouldn’t align myself with any government committed to denying them to people on the grounds of their ethnicity. 

 

How are they aligned to the government? As it says right there, they're aligned to the Israeli Labor Party, as is the Labour Party as a whole.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 minutes ago, Numero said:

Now, I’ve pre-read it twice just in case, but Starmer’s tweet doesn’t say JLM is the Jewish Community. You’re continually calling things out as lies, but you’re wide of the mark. 
 

Did you watch the Zoom call video? 

And through your extensive reading you'll be aware that I never claimed that Starmer's tweet did say that. 

[Red Phoenix]

I think Mendoza was pointing out that both groups support what's going on in Israel so she's comparing supporters of apartheid. The way she's said it was obviously to wind people up though and now she's suspended. I remember she was going on about guillotines instead of kinder gentler politics before which I thought was fucking stupid too. I agree with what she's getting at with both the guillotines tweet and what's just got her suspended but it's the way she does it that I think is often stupid, especially for someone in her position at a left wing outlet.

 

I don't want her banned though, she does tweet a lot of good stuff when she's not baiting.

[Numero Veinticinco]

6 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

 

Maybe she just should have said "Imagine if... spend the day with Labour Friends of South Africa".

(Except, of course, there never was such a group, because opposition to racism used to be a given in the Labour Party. )

Maybe she shouldn’t have taken an hour long talk with quite reasonable content and equates the people in it to white supremacists when it was white supremacists who tried to kill every single Jew and did so in the most horrific ways. Maybe try condemning her instead of deflecting?

 

What on earth has happened to you, AoT. I  implore you to take a step back and think about some of this. 

[sir roger]

Starmer agreed that he would only deal with the BoD and JLM , so he must assume they cover the whole Jewish community

[Numero Veinticinco]

2 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

And through your extensive reading you'll be aware that I never claimed that Starmer's tweet did say that. 

Right. So you literally quoted a post where he spoke about the JLM and the Jewish community but you were not referring to the tweet you quoted but something that wasn’t there. Got ya. 
 

Fucking hell, man. 

[Bruce Spanner]

12 minutes ago, Nelly-Torres said:

Angela "I used to regularly appear on stage with Corbyn and practically rim him off, but don't do that anymore as it's not beneficial for me to do so" Rayner needs to be reminded that she can't suspend thousands of Labour members, particularly since the EHRC report stated that there shouldn't be any political interference in the complaints and disciplinary process. 

 

The wrong/right kind of political interference? 

She gives me a suspended member! 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 minute ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

How are they aligned to the government? As it says right there, they're aligned to the Israeli Labor Party, as is the Labour Party as a whole.

Everything they do and say is about promoting or offering excuses for the Israeli government and attacking anybody who calls out that government's systematic violent racism.

 

Other Jewish groups and individuals are able to say "we support Israel's right to exist, but we absolutely condemn Apartheid and the oppression of the Palestinian people" - but somehow the people who say that don't count as "the Jewish community".

[Strontium]

4 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Everything they do and say is about promoting or offering excuses for the Israeli government and attacking anybody who calls out that government's systematic violent racism.

 

Other Jewish groups and individuals are able to say "we support Israel's right to exist, but we absolutely condemn Apartheid and the oppression of the Palestinian people" - but somehow the people who say that don't count as "the Jewish community".

 

Okay, I looked on their website for their last press release on Israel. Which is this one.

 

https://www.jewishlabour.uk/statement_on_netanyahu_s_coalition_and_west_bank_annexation

 

Quote

Jewish Labour Movement Statement on Netanyahu's Coalition and West Bank Annexation

After a year of electoral stalemate, a coalition agreement has been signed between Netanyahu and Gantz. Alongside Blue and White and Likud in coalition, is the Israeli Labor Party.

We are dismayed and bitterly disappointed that Amir Peretz has led the Israeli Labor Party into coalition. Political progressives in Israel and across the world would have rightly expected to see Peretz follow the course of action set by our other sister Party, Meretz, and stand firmly in opposition to Netanyahu.

The agreed make up of the Israeli Government now gives a green light to the annexation of the West Bank. Not only will this likely result in further conflict, but it will make much needed progress towards peace almost impossible.

JLM will continue to strongly oppose any annexation of the West Bank. We believe the only way to peace is through a two state solution; a secure Israel alongside a secure and viable Palestine.

 

What part of that statement supports the claim you have made?

[Numero Veinticinco]

14 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Other Jewish groups and individuals are able to say "we support Israel's right to exist, but we absolutely condemn Apartheid and the oppression of the Palestinian people" - but somehow the people who say that don't count as "the Jewish community".

Have entered the twilight zone on here this evening? I dare say if you ask Strontium Dog who the top three most vociferously vocal opponents of Israel are on here, I’d be  one of them, but this is crazy talk. Your posts today have been pretty wild, especially when it comes to these groups have been set up expressly to support oppression and racist violence. 
 

Discourse has broken down in this country. Political chat is so entrenched and bitter that it’s actually not about policy or ideology, much less honesty and accuracy, and much more about spitting out quotes and phrases to score cheap points.

 

I ask again, did you watch the zoom call, and if you did watch it did you get the ‘Starmer shuns Palestinians in favour of group of people who are there to support the oppressors’ vibe from it? 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

29 minutes ago, Numero said:

Have entered the twilight zone on here this evening? I dare say if you ask Strontium Dog who the top three most vociferously vocal opponents of Israel are on here, I’d be  one of them, but this is crazy talk. Your posts today have been pretty wild, especially when it comes to these groups have been set up expressly to support oppression and racist violence. 
 

Discourse has broken down in this country. Political chat is so entrenched and bitter that it’s actually not about policy or ideology, much less honesty and accuracy, and much more about spitting out quotes and phrases to score cheap points.

 

I ask again, did you watch the zoom call, and if you did watch it did you get the ‘Starmer shuns Palestinians in favour of group of people who are there to support the oppressors’ vibe from it? 

OK. I'll moderate/clarify what I'm saying about JLM.  It is a Zionist organisation, originally set up to support the state of Israel.  In recent decades Israel has become increasingly racist, implementing Apartheid laws.  JLM (like LFI) continues to support Israel (notwithstanding the occasional lip-service towards the two-state solution which Israel has been actively working against for decades).  If you're a Socialist organisation (as JLM claims to be) there comes a point where you have to stop defending the indefensible and stop smearing Israel's critics.  More to the point, their comes a point where you have to say "if the state of Israel is structurally racist, then it shouldn't be central to Jewish life".

 

As for the video, no I didn't watch it and I've made no comments about what was discussed.  You'll recall that I mentioned the reports of the JLM/LFI event are to be taken with a pinch of salt. As has been pointed out, the UN Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People has been changed this year to 1st December, so there's no ironic clash there.  I'd expect any Labour leader to issue some sort of statement  - if only a tweet - on the day itself. 

 

My worry about Starmer  - and I might be wrong in this - is that in attempting to build bridges with "the Jewish Community" he ends up exclusively aligning with that part of the community represented by JLM/LFI/BoD and leaving Democratic Socialist Jews and pro-Palestinian Jews feeling that they have no place in the party.