Is it safe to come out yet? - by John Brennan

[TheHowieLama]

 

Could be 5 years.  Could be 15.

 

Its been longer than that pal.

[aws]

On a wind up??!! Srsly?

Oops. Meant Brendan of course.

[Pureblood]

The impending fact-based article is a mouth watering prospect.  Let's talk numbers.  Bring it on.  Bagsy I have the Woolster on my team.  

[TheHowieLama]

Wooly's a mammoth.

[s(k)aturation]

Its been longer than that pal.

 

 

Gosh has it been that long?  Hadn't noticed.

[s(k)aturation]

Fuck that. This has been the most interesting thread on here for ages.

 

 

Yep. It's done its job perfectly. 

[G Richards]

When we click (which has happened a lot and will continue to do so) we are as good as anyone there is.

 

Am I negative? Yes, no shit Sherlock.

 

We've progressed under him (cf. our League positions). But I'm beginning to wonder how far more he can take us, that is all.

 

If the expectation is to be in the Top Four every season, then fine. To really challenge for the Title? I think he needs to bring something extra to the table, notably at the back.

 

Both are possible, as numerous teams have shown over the years.

That's fair enough, and I agree with it. If we want to challenge for the title we must be better at the back, and probably midfield too, I would add. The balance of the side isn't quite right as is. When Keita arrives he will improve the midfield and I'm certain the central defence will be added to as well, and not doing it in the summer was a big miss. Beyond those two the next biggest question mark is the need for a commanding and reliable goalkeeper.

 

Klopp is building something up here. Progress is happening and I can accept that it hasn't been fast enough for some, with the defence the glaring issue, but he's more than earned the right to build his team and I'm looking forward to seeing where he takes us in the next few years.

 

I suppose we will see, but I think he will be the one to bring the league title back to Anfield after a long, long absence. That's the ultimate goal.

[tlw content]

Latest article from John B, merging it in this thread rather than starting a separate one....

 

 

Rafa liked his facts, did he not? So, without further ado, let’s break down Klopp’s reign into facts. He’s been here for just about two calendar years now. No snarkiness; no snide remarks about, “That’s football!”: it’s nearly Christmas so benevolence is de rigueur.
 
Let’s take his first season in charge. None of these guys were his, except, perhaps, Firmino. He came in eight games into the season and over the course of the rest of the year, for 30 games, we won 13, drew 9 and lost 8. That’s a total of 48 points in 30 games (1.6 points a game), which, projected over a season, gets you to 61 points. I’ve even rounded up, to show I come in good faith!
 
In his second season, with some of his men (Mané, Wijnaldum, Matip), we moved on to 76 points, an average of 2 a game. So, from his first 30 games in charge to his first full season in charge, we gained 0.4 points a game, which equates to a gain of more than 15 points over a season. That’s progress!
 
He’s now been in charge for 74 League games. How about a rolling average divided up in three parts?
 
Games 1-25? 12W 6D 7L = 42 points
Games 26-50? 14W 8D 3L = 50 points
Games 51-74? 12W 7D 5L = 43 points (admittedly with a game less played).
 
So pretty even over his time in charge, with a strong second third and a slight dip over the last 24 games. But we’re pretty consistent. Maybe this is our level?
 
Progress can’t be judged just based on points, of course. Last year, we finished fourth (up from eighth the previous season) and qualified for the European Cup. We scored 78 in 38 (over two a game), up from a poor enough 55 in 30 games in his first season. And progress needn’t just be mathematic; even though we are heart-wrenching (literally!) at times, when we click, we’re fantastic to watch and it can be great fun.
 
The flipside to all of the above and the source of such rancour at the moment is, of course, our “defence”. The quotation marks, with all due respect to some readers, are necessary. In those 74 League games under Klopp, we have conceded 93 goals. That’s an average of 1.25 goals a game, which equates to 47 over the course of a season.
 
The number of goals conceded a season by the last 10 Champions: 33, 36, 32, 37, 43, 29, 37, 32, 24 (we conceded 27 that season and finished second to United), 22. That’s an average of 31.5 goals conceded for the last ten Champions. We are way off that target.
 
Even if we take last year’s figures, his only full season in charge, we conceded 42. Only once has a team conceded more and won the Title. That was United and they scored 86 and finished up with 89 points.
 
Given the amount of goals we let in, we’re going to need to score a hundred to mount a realistic Title challenge. We are effectively asking our front men to go out and score three a game. A big ask.
 
To finish on a positive note, in Klopp’s first 38 games in charge we conceded 50 goals. In his last 37, we’ve conceded 43. Statistically, things are improving. Tighten up at the back and we could win this thing, at last. That’s a fact.
 

John Brennan

@JohnAPBrennan

Click here to view the article

[Numero Veinticinco]

In my next piece, I'll be less snarky! Just factual!

All the facts or just the ones you want to use, put in the perspective that paints a partial picture of events? I’ll be interested to see.

 

EDIT: Just posted above. 

[Pureblood]

It's a bit dry and fact-based.  Can you not be more snarky?

[Russ Atmosphere]

How did he buy Firmino?

[elBooth]

I consider myself pretty fair so right off the bat i'd say that's John's opinion and although i don't agree with it, I respect that.  He's gone to the length of writing it and leaving it open for debate whether that be positive or negative so fair play.  Personally speaking it's getting a little tiresome and the other articles he's written are portraying the exact same message so not sure what else this brings to the debate, e.g. defence is shit, serious reservations about Klopp as manager.

 

I guess if it gets clicks for the site that may be the most positive thing but the sad thing for me is it comes across as a little WUM-ish.

[Barnesey]

How did he buy Firmino?

There is a view his appointment was known in the summer Bobby was bought and JK was behind the deal. ROdgers knew he was going and merely kept the seat warm until the time was right. His backroom staff left that summer.

[liverpoolsno9]

Latest article from John B, merging it in this thread rather than starting a separate one....

 

 

Rafa liked his facts, did he not? So, without further ado, let’s break down Klopp’s reign into facts. He’s been here for just about two calendar years now. No snarkiness; no snide remarks about, “That’s football!”: it’s nearly Christmas so benevolence is de rigueur.

 

Let’s take his first season in charge. None of these guys were his, except, perhaps, Firmino. He came in eight games into the season and over the course of the rest of the year, for 30 games, we won 13, drew 9 and lost 8. That’s a total of 48 points in 30 games (1.6 points a game), which, projected over a season, gets you to 61 points. I’ve even rounded up, to show I come in good faith!

 

In his second season, with some of his men (Mané, Wijnaldum, Matip), we moved on to 76 points, an average of 2 a game. So, from his first 30 games in charge to his first full season in charge, we gained 0.4 points a game, which equates to a gain of more than 15 points over a season. That’s progress!

 

He’s now been in charge for 74 League games. How about a rolling average divided up in three parts?

 

Games 1-25? 12W 6D 7L = 42 points

Games 26-50? 14W 8D 3L = 50 points

Games 51-74? 12W 7D 5L = 43 points (admittedly with a game less played).

 

So pretty even over his time in charge, with a strong second third and a slight dip over the last 24 games. But we’re pretty consistent. Maybe this is our level?

 

Progress can’t be judged just based on points, of course. Last year, we finished fourth (up from eighth the previous season) and qualified for the European Cup. We scored 78 in 38 (over two a game), up from a poor enough 55 in 30 games in his first season. And progress needn’t just be mathematic; even though we are heart-wrenching (literally!) at times, when we click, we’re fantastic to watch and it can be great fun.

 

The flipside to all of the above and the source of such rancour at the moment is, of course, our “defence”. The quotation marks, with all due respect to some readers, are necessary. In those 74 League games under Klopp, we have conceded 93 goals. That’s an average of 1.25 goals a game, which equates to 47 over the course of a season.

 

The number of goals conceded a season by the last 10 Champions: 33, 36, 32, 37, 43, 29, 37, 32, 24 (we conceded 27 that season and finished second to United), 22. That’s an average of 31.5 goals conceded for the last ten Champions. We are way off that target.

 

Even if we take last year’s figures, his only full season in charge, we conceded 42. Only once has a team conceded more and won the Title. That was United and they scored 86 and finished up with 89 points.

 

Given the amount of goals we let in, we’re going to need to score a hundred to mount a realistic Title challenge. We are effectively asking our front men to go out and score three a game. A big ask.

 

To finish on a positive note, in Klopp’s first 38 games in charge we conceded 50 goals. In his last 37, we’ve conceded 43. Statistically, things are improving. Tighten up at the back and we could win this thing, at last. That’s a fact.

 

 

John Brennan

@JohnAPBrennan

Click here to view the article

Code? Is that you?

[Brownie]

Just to add to Johns point about that season Utd conceded 43 and won the league...

 

That was the season when they drew 5-5 with WBA on the last day.

[Rick Sanchez C-137]

There are lots of 'anomalies' that make up a season. We conceded 5 against City but still dropped the same 3 points as we would have if we had conceded 1.

 

It's tricky as we have a very attacking style and I wouldn't want to see that change too much. But we need a particularly strong defence to make up for that, and we don't have the players. We have a couple of youngsters one or two decent players and a couple of turnips with eyes.

[Rotpeter]

So the crux of the issue justifying (in your mind at least) all the snide is we are not title challengers in a couple of years.

 

Can you say Sky Generation...

[Rick Sanchez C-137]

So the crux of the issue justifying (in your mind at least) all the snide is we are not title challengers in a couple of years.

 

Can you say Sky Generation...

 

Whose mind?

[johnb]

So the crux of the issue justifying (in your mind at least) all the snide is we are not title challengers in a couple of years.

 

Can you say Sky Generation...

Yeah mate, absolutely. Sky Generation. Born and inbred.

[liverpoolsno9]

Yeah mate, absolutely. Sky Generation. Born and inbred.

Nail. On. Head

[Russ Atmosphere]

There is a view his appointment was known in the summer Bobby was bought and JK was behind the deal. ROdgers knew he was going and merely kept the seat warm until the time was right. His backroom staff left that summer.

 

People believe some right old shite.

[johnb]

See, even when facced with facts, which, incidentally, are presented in a balanced way, there is no talking to some of you on here.

 

Sky Generation?

Manc?

Blue?

 

The arguments are drying up.

 

Write a vigorous defence of him instead.

[Tony Moanero]

See, even when facced with facts, which, incidentally, are presented in a balanced way, there is no talking to some of you on here.

 

Sky Generation?

Manc?

Blue?

 

The arguments are drying up.

 

Write a vigorous defence of him instead.

 

 

John, custard creams or bourbons?

[Rotpeter]

See, even when facced with facts, which, incidentally, are presented in a balanced way, there is no talking to some of you on here.

 

Sky Generation?

Manc?

Blue?

 

The arguments are drying up.

 

Write a vigorous defence of him instead.

The problem isn't your arguments, it's how you originally chose to portray them and your (ahem) premature expectation issue (Secret is safe with me)...

[VladimirIlyich]

John, custard creams or bourbons?

Bourbons every time.