Are we rectifying the mistakes of last summer?

[therevivalist]

Simple question really - with the signings we're making, and likely to make, are we righting the wrongs of last summer?

 

I've heard it put forward that we've learnt our lessons from that window, and have adjusted our strategy accordingly, going for first team players and PL experience. 

 

NB: This isn't a whinge, I'm genuinely interested in hearing what others - particularly those of an opposing opinion - think.

 

My two penneth:

 

I rate all of our new signings individually - particularly Clyne and Firmino, who were on my fantasy "want" list -  but I worry that they won't address some of the big problems in our squad, or specifically the issues the manager has struggled with.

 

Last summer we had a gaping hole at CM, needed competition for Mignolet, and most of all should've brought in a mobile forward who could work with - or replace -  Sturridge without the team having to be adjusted. Those problems remain in my view.

 

If the argument is we're going after PL experience, then surely you have to apply the same rationale to Lallana and Lovren (or even Balotelli), who were both supposed to be first team players and would need no time to acclimatise.

 

Clyne is a real talent, and a definite upgrade on Johnson, but I was similarly pleased when we managed to nab Moreno last year. My fear is, once again, we'll see a youngster regress because we haven't heeded what environment the player has previously thrived in i.e. a solid central midfield that covers CBs, who in turn can cover the fullback.

 

Milner is a very good player, but he doesn't fill the hole in CM.

 

Firmino is a smart signing, and will provide the manager with the AM he wants who can play up front too; a nice fall back option should his strikers stink the place out again. Yet, much like Lallana, he'll require a good midfield behind him, which places the emphasis on Milner and Henderson again. 

 

I'm not going to get into whether Benteke is the right kind of forward, as everyone's made up their mind on that one.

 

Before the window began, the list I saw most people raising as needing to be addressed - in order of prioritisation - was CF, CM (or even DM) and RB.

 

Given how we saw the kitty for a forward slowly evaporate last year, spent big on AMs, a fullback who needed protecting, and failed to recognise how an upgraded CM would have had a beneficial effect on both attack and defence, is anyone convinced we've learnt our lessons, or is our barometer now just "better than last summer"?

I'm fine with Milner, Firmino and the kid from Charlton. But if we go ahead with the signing of Benteke, that would be Rodger's worst blunder.

[ritchie]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

At the time of signing Lallana and Lambert were banging them in for a team right up there. Markovic was a highly rated youngster and Ballotelli was a nutter but a talented player who had played for the richest team in our league and a first choice Italian international and worth a shot. Lovren was getting high high praise from all the pundits (like Carra)

 

The fact that some if not most have been shite is not the fault of scouting but more so management, coaching, injuries and probably a couple of other reasons.

To anyone who looked at it with a bit of rationality the Southampton buys were a colossal waste of money before we even made them. We didn't need Lallana because we had Coutinho who is better (and he was never worth anywhere near £25m). We didn't need Lovren because we had Sakho and Agger who are better (and he was never worth anywhere near £20m). And it didn't take much to see that Balotelli and Lambert were completely ill suited to the football we were playing the previous season and really bad fits to lead the attack with Suarez gone.

 

Moreno, Manquilo, Markovic, Can I never had an issue with and all made reasonable sense (young players with potential like Ibe and Sterling who could develop at the club). The others never made any sense to begin with and that was what was so unforgivable about it. We needed a top player to replace Suarez, we needed a good full back, we needed a high quality centre mid. Anything else was a luxury.

[TheHowieLama]

We could play with three defensive midfielders and still not finish any higher up the table.

[ritchie]

We could play with three defensive midfielders and still not finish any higher up the table.

The boat has pretty much sailed for the top 4 now until one of them has a rotten season. That's why last season was such a disaster. It wouldn't have took much to get 4th last season with United in a transitional season and very average for most of it.

 

The Europa League needs to be our competition now in terms of glory and CL qualification. If we want to have a chance in that we need to sharpen up a lot tactically.

[therevivalist]

To anyone who looked at it with a bit of rationality the Southampton buys were a colossal waste of money before we even made them. We didn't need Lallana because we had Coutinho who is better (and he was never worth anywhere near £25m). We didn't need Lovren because we had Sakho and Agger who are better (and he was never worth anywhere near £20m). And it didn't take much to see that Balotelli and Lambert were completely ill suited to the football we were playing the previous season and really bad fits to lead the attack with Suarez gone.

 

Moreno, Manquilo, Markovic, Can I never had an issue with and all made reasonable sense. The others never made any sense to begin with and that was what was so unforgivable about it. We needed a top player to replace Suarez, we needed a good full back, we needed a high quality centre mid. Anything else was a luxury. We got neither.

A manager wallowing in confusion who believes all our ills would vanish if we throw money at a half decent player when he sees one. Rodgers doesn't know what to do with Borini, Lambert, Balotelli, Allen etc....He's still trying to bring in more of the same. Our problem now is Rodgers himself. No concept of planning.

[TheHowieLama]

Ritchie If we scored 10 more golas this season we would be in the top 4. We conceded less this year than the year before - defensive midfield or not.

 

We lost 50 league golas. Not fifteen - five oh!

 

Any other team (barring City) that loses fifty of those is relegated. 

 

UEFA Cup? Why should we worry about shaping a team to that? We can beat any team of that caliber if we are firing upfront anyday.

 

It would be more enjoyable to win the FA Cup. 

[ritchie]

Our problem now is Rodgers himself. No concept of planning.

Rodgers is a coach not a manager. That's why he was supposed to have a DOF to do the planning for him and leave him to coach. But his ego took over and he's ended up trying to manage everything when he couldn't plan a piss up.

[TheHowieLama]

I'm not sure any Premier League side in recent history has scored 50 goals less in successive seasons. Damn near impossible when you think about it.

[Jairzinho]

We replaced one of the 51 goals scored by Suarez and Sturridge.

[ben48]

A manager wallowing in confusion who believes all our ills would vanish if we throw money at a half decent player when he sees one. Rodgers doesn't know what to do with Borini, Lambert, Balotelli, Allen etc....He's still trying to bring in more of the same. Our problem now is Rodgers himself. No concept of planning.

I second that mate.

[Denny Crane]

Ritchie If we scored 10 more golas this season we would be in the top 4. We conceded less this year than the year before - defensive midfield or not.

 

 

Not sure about that no-one has finished with less than +25 GD getting into the top four since Everton in 2004/5 with a freak GD. The last 10 seasons read

 

37, 28,39, 31, 26, 29,25,35,27,25 for the 4th place team, we ended up with +4 quite some distance away.

 

In 2012-13 we ended up with a +28 GD and finished 6th.

 

So even when we hammered a few teams like Newcastle and Swansea in 12-13, shipping goals is a huge problem.

 

We need to concede less goals to improve you can't overlook that.

 

The 2013-14 season is a freak occurrence for us, same as Everton getting 4th place with -1 in 2004-5.

[TheHowieLama]

Southampton was plus 20 something and finished below us - FACT!!!

 

I can place 10 goals over the course of last season to get us to 4th - FACT!!!

[TheHowieLama]

We need to concede less goals to improve you can't overlook that.

 

 

 

Agreed - but if that is all we do then we are definitely mired in mid-table. There is no way to be plus 25 golas while scoring 50.

[Denny Crane]

Pretty obvious we need to score more no-one is saying otherwise but you seem to be implying that defending does not matter.

 

I seem to recall me saying something similar last summer to you and you were were on this we will outscore the others.

 

Didn't work out that well did it?

[TheHowieLama]

Pretty obvious we need to score more no-one is saying otherwise but you seem to be implying that defending does not matter.

 

I seem to recall me saying something similar last summer to you and you were were on this we will outscore the others.

 

Didn't work out that well did it?

 

Probably not me - I am a defense first guy. Defense wins championships - that said you can certainly get in to the mix by conceding say 5 less.

But TBH we know we are never going to be real tight under this system

 

We need to score 25 more.

[eeyore]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

At the time of signing Lallana and Lambert were banging them in for a team right up there. Markovic was a highly rated youngster and Ballotelli was a nutter but a talented player who had played for the richest team in our league and a first choice Italian international and worth a shot. Lovren was getting high high praise from all the pundits (like Carra)

 

The fact that some if not most have been shite is not the fault of scouting but more so management, coaching, injuries and probably a couple of other reasons.

Markovic was not ever a highly rated player.

 

Unless you listen to avram fucking grant?

[Denny Crane]

Probably not me - I am a defense first guy. Defense wins championships - that said you can certainly get in to the mix by conceding say 5 less.

But TBH we know we are never going to be real tight under this system

 

We need to score 25 more.

 

I think a lot of people got carried away last summer not just you.

 

People seem to think if you chuck a load of attacking players in a squad it equals more goals that equal more points. Does not happen often, maybe more in Spain or Germany. The classic case is Coutinho and Lallanna and Markovic all want to play in similar areas etc.

 

For all the talk of attacking football, Rodgers really did try and shut up shop he played an extra defender and started Lucas last season. I wonder how many goals we shipped last season with 3 compared to 4, I doubt it makes for pretty reading.

[Paul]

It remains to be seen but I think not. We should follow a policy like this:

 

1. Quality over quantity every time.

2. Old first team players become squad players. 3. Academy graduates fill the gaps.

[Hades]

No, because we haven't addressed the biggest problem - the manager.

[Rocky Sullivan]

Without being an hysterical fanny and that; I think we'll do ok.

[RoboRiise]

On the subject of DMs, I'm assuming Brendan's actual plan is that Can will perform that role.  He's never going to be a right back or the right hand man in a central three for me, or at least not without another 3 years or so there to learn the position properly and when we signed him I assumed it was to play as a DM, or at least the deepest lying midfielder regardless of whether you consider it to be a specifically defensive role in a Rodgers team.  If I'd seen him play more in that position last season, I might have a better idea how it is likely to work out.

[bizzle10]

The question surely must depend when season starts and who we got in, the transfer window opened on wednesday 1st july so lets give the committe a chance to do their job.For me if we dont get a defensive mid and a striker both to go straight in to starting 11 not young promising types then summer is a disapointment and well end up outside top 4 again.

[RoboRiise]

Markovic was not ever a highly rated player.

 

Unless you listen to avram fucking grant?

 

So Avi was the only person ever to express a positive opinion about him before we signed him was he?

 

I can't get my head round you at all lad.  About 95% of what you post is just fucking rage against anybody and everybody, then just every now and then the facade slips and you drop something that's intelligent and insightful.  Then it's back to 'Lovren is a fucking puppy-squeezing shit cunt who should be skinned alive.'  Which he is obviously, bad example, but you get the point.

 

Anyway as for Markovic I don't think he's ever going to pull up any trees here either to be honest; he had maybe three moments last season where I thought there was a player about to appear and then he'd just go back to running down blind alleys moderately quickly and shitting out of tackles.  OK, I'm sure he didn't profess to be a defender when we signed him and the fact that he ended up playing wing back is 100% on Rodgers not him, but even so how the fuck can a player get paid whatever he is on (30-40k a week, anybody know?) and not even be willing to stick his fucking foot in?  I'd probably take a 'Phil Babb' ever single week for that money.  Fuck me, I'd fight Jesse Ventura and Roddy Piper armed with cricket bats.

 

No need to re-write history to make the point that he doesn't look up to it, there's plenty of factual evidence without heading off to Narnia as well.

[eeyore]

So Avi was the only person ever to express a positive opinion about him before we signed him was he?

 

I can't get my head round you at all lad. About 95% of what you post is just fucking rage against anybody and everybody, then just every now and then the facade slips and you drop something that's intelligent and insightful. Then it's back to 'Lovren is a fucking puppy-squeezing shit cunt who should be skinned alive.' Which he is obviously, bad example, but you get the point.

 

Anyway as for Markovic I don't think he's ever going to pull up any trees here either to be honest; he had maybe three moments last season where I thought there was a player about to appear and then he'd just go back to running down blind alleys moderately quickly and shitting out of tackles. OK, I'm sure he didn't profess to be a defender when we signed him and the fact that he ended up playing wing back is 100% on Rodgers not him, but even so how the fuck can a player get paid whatever he is on (30-40k a week, anybody know?) and not even be willing to stick his fucking foot in? I'd probably take a 'Phil Babb' ever single week for that money. Fuck me, I'd fight Jesse Ventura and Roddy Piper armed with cricket bats.

 

No need to re-write history to make the point that he doesn't look up to it, there's plenty of factual evidence without heading off to Narnia as well.

I rage against shit players and shit scouting.

 

This day and age there is no excuse for having spent so much money on so many shit players.

 

95% of our players are shit

[Liverpool lad]

This is our year