The war in Ukraine

[stringvest]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LNB6M7yTBo

[Jairzinho]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfvoTACizDw&list=UUpwvZwUam-URkxB7g4USKpg&index=11

[Captain]

What I think is that Putin has already invaded and annexed part of an independent sovereign nation.

 

Now he is fomenting a civil war, killing hundreds if not thousands of innocents, in order to annex more of that nation.

 

If he believes so much in the right to self-determination, he should introduce the concept in his own country. How many people has he killed in order to prevent them exercising that right to self-determination?

 

Anyone who thinks he is some sort of freedom fighter, helping to free oppressed masses from their chains is either a fool or disingenuous.

 

His actions during and after the Chechen wars are quite something.

 

It's funny how the new Tsar's rhetorics are exactly the same as regarding Yugoslavia in 1956.

 

In short, he is pushing very hard towards a new cold war and focussing on an external enemy to rally the masses at home. Unfortunately for him, I don't think the Russian economy has the back to carry that burden. When shit really hits the fan for the Russians at home, they have previous for how to handle fucked up leaders.

[Red Phoenix]

As to his political views, Mr Skillt prefers to call himself a nationalist, but in fact his views are typical of a neo-Nazi.

 

"It's all about how you see it," he says. "I would be an idiot if I said I did not want to see survival of white people. After World War Two, the victors wrote their history. They decided that it's always a bad thing to say I am white and I am proud."

 

Mr Skillt believes races should not mix. He says the Jews are not white and should not mix with white people. His next project is to go fight for Syrian President Bashar al-Assad because he believes Mr Assad is standing up to "international Zionism".

 

Not all of Mr Skillt's views are widely shared in the Azov Battalion, which is about 300-strong in total.

 

He says his comrades do not discuss politics much, though some of them may be "national socialists" and may wear swastikas. On the other hand, "there is even one liberal, though I don't know how he got there", he adds, with a smile in his voice.

 

Mr Skillt says there is only a handful of foreign fighters in the Azov Battalion and they do not get paid. "They see it as a good thing, to come and fight," he explains. However, Mr Skillt is expecting more foreigners to join soon: he says there is now a recruiter who is looking for "serious fighters" from outside Ukraine.

 

The key figures in the Azov Battalion are its commander, Andriy Biletsky, and his deputy, Ihor Mosiychuk.

 

Andriy Biletsky is also the leader of a Ukrainian organisation called the Social National Assembly. Its aims are stated in one of their online publications:

 

 - "to prepare Ukraine for further expansion and to struggle for the liberation of the entire White Race from the domination of the internationalist speculative capital"

 

 - "to punish severely sexual perversions and any interracial contacts that lead to the extinction of the white man"

 

This, according to experts, is a typical neo-Nazi narrative.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28329329

 

 

However, despite its extremist rhetoric, Svoboda cannot be called a "fringe" party – indeed, it currently occupies 36 seats in the 450-member Ukrainian parliament, granting it status as the fourth-largest party in the country. Further, Svoboda is linked to other far-right groups across Europe through its membership in the Alliance of European National Movements, which includes the British National Party (BNP) of the United Kingdom and Jobbik, the neo-fascist, anti-Semitic and anti-Roma party of Hungary. The leader of Svoboda, Oleh Tyahnybok, who has appeared at the Kiev protests, has a long history of making inflammatory anti-Semitic statements, including the accusation during a 2004 speech before parliament that Ukraine is controlled by a “Muscovite-Jewish mafia.” Miroshnychenko also called the Ukrainian-born American film actress Mila Kunis a “dirty Jewess.”

 

Tyahnybok has also claimed that “organized Jewry” dominate Ukrainian media and government, have enriched themselves through criminal activities and plan to engineer a “genocide” upon the Christian Ukrainian population. Another top Svoboda member, Yuriy Mykhalchyshyn, a deputy in parliament, often quotes Nazi Propaganda Minister Joseph Goebbels, as well as other Third Reich luminaries like Ernst Rohm and Gregor Strasser.

http://www.ibtimes.com/euromaidan-dark-shadows-far-right-ukraine-protests-1556654

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"I wonder how it came to pass that most of the billionaires in Ukraine are Jews?" - Dmytro Yarosh

[Jairzinho]

The good guys.

[polymerpunkah]

How many of the countries that have escaped Russian domination over the past 30 years have introduced "Nazi" policies?

 

Any residents of Estonia/Latvia/Lithuania/Poland/former Czechoslovakia/Hungary willing to comment on whether things are  more or less "fascistic" in their countries now vs the days of the Warsaw Pact?

 

By way of contrast, check Putin's policies vis-a-vis minorities/homosexuals/press freedom/freedom of speech etc. in Russia.

 

Is he the "good guy"?

[Jairzinho]

No. None of them are.

[Strontium]

How many of the countries that have escaped Russian domination over the past 30 years have introduced "Nazi" policies?

 

Any residents of Estonia/Latvia/Lithuania/Poland/former Czechoslovakia/Hungary willing to comment on whether things are  more or less "fascistic" in their countries now vs the days of the Warsaw Pact?

 

By way of contrast, check Putin's policies vis-a-vis minorities/homosexuals/press freedom/freedom of speech etc. in Russia.

 

Is he the "good guy"?

 

Putin is anti-USA, and that's all that's required for many people to throw their weight behind him.

[Jairzinho]

Which people, Stronts?

[Strontium]

I couldn't possibly say.

[Red Phoenix]

Putin is anti-USA, and that's all that's required for many people to throw their weight behind him.

You could reverse that sentence in several ways. Here's a couple :

 

"NATO is anti-Russia, and that's all that's required for many people to throw their weight behind them."

 

"Those neo-Nazis are anti-Russia, 'Merica backs them though so that's all that's required for many people to throw their weight behind them."

 

If you can show clear evidence that the US is backing neo-Nazis, and that's still not good enough for people to doubt the situation, then I think we have some big problems. It also renders a lot of arguments here kind of pointless as well. By the way I don't think Putin is good either, I just don't think he started this, and I agree that NATO surrounding Russia's borders probably isn't a great idea if you're a fan of peace.

 

By the way, American money has previous for backing Nazis, WWII included. IG Farben and Prescott Bush, Ford and General Motors linked with Nazi tanks and planes, you could learn a few interesting facts looking at that angle. Maybe it is just about money after all.

[Strontium]

You haven't shown clear evidence that the US is backing neo-Nazis.  What you have shown is that neo-Nazi groupings are a minority constituent part of the opposition to Putin in Ukraine.

 

But instead of obsessiing over labels, you should be looking at political realities. The reality is that between Ukraine and Russia, there is only one country where ethnic minorities, homosexuals, liberals, democrats, journalists etc enjoy a decent standard of civil rights, irrespective of the "neo-Nazis in the government".

 

It's so funny how you make it sound like NATO is some kind of aggressor of which Russia needs to be running scared, when all it is is a defensive alliance guaranteeing the seurity of its members.

 

I'm sure it pisses Russia off that it can't throw its weight around like it used to in those territories, the homeland of my great-grandparents included, over which it traditionally exerted control, but I don't see bullies not getting their own way as a bad thing.

 

And I don't think historic backing for the Nazis is any kind of yardstick in these things, is it. The Israel/Palestine "discussions" being proof enough of that.

[Section_31]

Got to agree with SD there. The Russians backed the Nazis when it suited them then cried the blues for more Spitfires when they got subjected to some Barbarossa-style surprise sex. The Russians can fuck off.

[Lee909]

Yeah,ask the Poles about Russian/Nazi pacts 

[Red Phoenix]

Fair enough with the historical backing of the Nazis. One thing that gets me though is that some rich people/corporations in the US were supposed to have been backing them as American troops were out there fighting them at the same time. I'm not sure if Russians were fighting them and having people backing them at the same time.

 

Which brings me to the next point : you can only go so far before you have to ask the question about engineered conflicts, so that bankers and other crony-capitalists can back both sides and make as much money as possible. Which leads to the question : how many wars are actual genuine wars, and how many are engineered from the off? I get the feeling that the answer to that question could be shocking to say the least.

 

 

You haven't shown clear evidence that the US is backing neo-Nazis.

 

It's so funny how you make it sound like NATO is some kind of aggressor of which Russia needs to be running scared, when all it is is a defensive alliance guaranteeing the seurity of its members.

Sorry but I think both sentences there are naive. Are you trying to tell me that the CIA and others involved in the coup didn't realize they'd have neo-Nazis getting into power/being brought into the armed forces? The US gov will have known very well what it was doing. I might think that they're deluded and insane, but they're not fucking stupid to that level.

 

As for NATO, well, they've already broken international laws so they're definitely not just defensive, and all of the airstrikes they get involved in will sure rack up some nice cash for the contractors that are supplying the NATO forces with more bombs and missiles. The US is basically a war economy for a big part. Drone strikes prove the breaking of international law again, near constantly with those fucking drones, it just clearly proves that they're an international pariah that doesn't give a shit about international law.

 

And yes, those drones strikes are proof of US illegality, very clear proof. 100%. It's fine if they agree to the breaking of international law, who's going to do anything? But if they don't agree to it, the UN are involved, and probably NATO too. Or they'll just go it alone if they really feel like they have to. It's a farce.

 

I guess we're just going around in circles to an extent. Maybe we're all doomed to go around in circles until we see what our supposed rulers and corporate bosses are actually doing here.

[stringvest]

Speaking as a veteran of two world wars, I think they both should chill out.  NATO/US/UK needs to stay out of Ukraine, and Russia do likewise.

If they both get the fuck out of there, and both stop meddling in the country's affairs, the Ukrainians will sort it out for themselves, and fairly quickly.  

[Section_31]

Interestingly though, have spoken to a few war veterans who served with or worked with Russians and they won't hear a bad word said about them as a people.

[VladimirIlyich]

The Russians lost around 20 million people during ww2,including around 200,000 conscripted into fighting for the Germans. So even if their leaders loyalties did swing either way its a bit unfair to accuse the people of the same tendencies.

[Section_31]

The Russians lost around 20 million people during ww2,including around 200,000 conscripted into fighting for the Germans. So even if their leaders loyalties did swing either way its a bit unfair to accuse the people of the same tendencies.

Wouldn't dream of it personally, the Russian people are no doubt just like the rest of us, they just want to live their lives in safety and peace. But the powers that be like to throw the neo Nazi thing around as a justification for what they're doing in Ukraine, the perception being that they've paid their dues by taking down Hitler in some kind of glorious people's uprising against fascism, yet they backed the Nazis and only stopped when Hitler double crossed them.

 

There's also a massive Neo Nazi presence in Russia too, Stalin was a cunt and tbe Soviet Union were cunts every bit as bad as the Nazis, they probably killed, tortured and interned far more people than the Nazis did.

[VladimirIlyich]

Wouldn't dream of it personally, the Russian people are no doubt just like the rest of us, they just want to live their lives in safety and peace. But the powers that be like to throw the neo Nazi thing around as a justification for what they're doing in Ukraine, the perception being that they've paid their dues by taking down Hitler in some kind of glorious people's uprising against fascism, yet they backed the Nazis and only stopped when Hitler double crossed them.

 

There's also a massive Neo Nazi presence in Russia too, Stalin was a cunt and tbe Soviet Union were cunts every bit as bad as the Nazis, they probably killed, tortured and interned far more people than the Nazis did.

Im not defending Russian leaders either,just that their people are exactly like others and have the same cross sections as we do.

There are plenty of neo nazis among our own population and Politicians too.

There are very few winners here,apart from the usual crowd of rich contractors and multinationals,and many,many losers.

[Arl arse]

The good stuff starts @ 4:20

 

[Jairzinho]

http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_analysis/2526593/ukraine_opens_up_for_monsanto_land_grabs_and_gmos.html

 

Ukraine opens up for Monsanto, land grabs and GMOs

 

Hidden from mainstream media exposure, the World Bank and IMF loan has opened up Ukraine to major corporate inroads, writes Joyce Nelson. Loan conditions are forcing the deeply indebted country to open up to GMO crops, and lift the ban on private sector land ownership. US corporations are jubilant at the 'goldmine' that awaits them.

 

Finally, a little-known aspect of the crisis in Ukraine is receiving some international attention.

 

The California-based Oakland Institute recently released a report revealing that the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund (IMF), under terms of their $17 billion loan to Ukraine, would open that country to genetically-modified (GM) crops and genetically-modified organisms (GMOs) in agriculture.

 

The report is entitled 'Walking on the West Side: the World Bank and the IMF in the Ukraine Conflict'.

 

In late 2013, the then president of Ukraine, Viktor Yanukovych, rejected a European Union association agreement tied to the $17 billion IMF loan, whose terms are only now being revealed.

 

Instead, Yanukovych chose a Russian aid package worth $15 billion plus a discount on Russian natural gas. His decision was a major factor in the ensuing deadly protests that led to his ouster from office in February 2014 and the ongoing crisis.

 

According to the Oakland Institute, "Whereas Ukraine does not allow the use of genetically modified organisms (GMOs) in agriculture, Article 404 of the EU agreement, which relates to agriculture, includes a clause that has generally gone unnoticed: it indicates, among other things, that both parties will cooperate to extend the use of biotechnologies.

 

"There is no doubt that this provision meets the expectations of the agribusiness industry. As observed by Michael Cox, research director at the investment bank Piper Jaffray, 'Ukraine and, to a wider extent, Eastern Europe, are among the most promising growth markets for farm-equipment giant Deere, as well as seed producers Monsanto and DuPont'."

 

Ukrainian law bars farmers from growing GM crops. Long considered 'the bread basket of Europe', Ukraine's rich black soil is ideal for growing grains, and in 2012 Ukrainian farmers harvested more than 20 million tonnes of corn.

 

Monsanto's 'non-GMO' $140m investment

 

In May 2013, Monsanto announced plans to invest $140 million in a non-GMO corn seed plant in Ukraine, with Monsanto Ukraine spokesman Vitally Fechuk confirming that "We will be working with conventional seeds only" because "in Ukraine only conventional seeds are allowed for production and importation."

 

But by November 2013, six large Ukrainian agriculture associations had prepared draft amendments to the law, pushing for "creating, testing, transportation and use of GMOs regarding the legalization of GM seeds."

 

The president of the Ukrainian Grain Association, Volodymyr Klymenko, told a Nov. 5 press conference in Kiev:

 

"We could mull over this issue for a long time, but we, jointly with the [agricultural] associations, have signed two letters to change the law on biosecurity, in which we proposed the legalization of the use of GM seeds, which had been tested in the United States for a long time, for our producers."

 

(Note: actually, GM seeds and GMOs have never undergone independent, long-term testing in the US.)

 

Creating a 'favorable environment' - for Monsanto

 

The agricultural associations' draft amendments coincided with the terms of the EU association agreement and IMF/World Bank loan.

 

The website sustainablepulse.com - which tracks GMO news worldwide - immediately slammed the agricultural associations' proposal, with director Henry Rowlands stating:

 

"Ukraine agriculture will be seriously damaged if the Ukrainian government legally allows GM seeds in the country. Their farmers will find their export markets reduced due to consumers' anti-GMO sentiments both in Russia and the EU."

 

Rowlands said that Monsanto's investment in Ukraine "could rise to $300 million within several years. Does Ukrainian agriculture want to totally rely on the success or failure of one US-based company?"

 

On December 13, 2013, Monsanto's Jesus Madrazo, Vice President of Corporate Engagement, told the US-Ukraine Conference in Washington, DC that the company sees"the importance of creating a favorable environment [in Ukraine] that encourages innovation and fosters the continued development of agriculture.

 

"Ukraine has the opportunity to further develop the potential of conventional crops, which is where we are currently concentrating our efforts. We also hope that at some point biotechnology is a tool that will be available to Ukrainian farmers in the future."

 

Just a few days before Madrazo's remarks in Washington, Monsanto Ukraine had launchedits "social development" program for the country, called 'Grain Basket of the Future'. It provides grants to rural villagers so they can (in Monsanto's words) "start feeling that they can improve their situation themselves as opposed to waiting for a handout."

 

Actually, the real "handout" is the one going to Big US Agribusiness through the terms of the IMF / World Bank loan, which besides opening the country to GM crops, will also further lift the ban on the sale of Ukraine's rich agricultural lands to the private sector.

 

As Morgan Williams, president and CEO of the US-Ukraine Business Council, toldInternational Business Times in March, "Ukraine's agriculture could be a real gold mine."

 

But he added that there are "many aspects of the [ukraine] business climate that need to be changed. The major item would center around getting the government out of business ... "

 

The WikiLeaks Cables - lobbying for GMO

 

In August 2011, WikiLeaks released US diplomatic cables showing that the US State Department has been lobbying worldwide for Monsanto and other biotechnology corporations like DuPont, Syngenta, Bayer and Dow.

 

The US non-profit Food & Water Watch, after combing through five years of these cables (2005-2009), released its report 'Biotech Ambassadors: How the US State Department Promotes the Seed Industry's Global Agenda' on May 14, 2013.

 

The report showed the US State Department has "lobbied foreign governments to adopt pro-agricultural biotechnology policies and laws, operated a rigorous public relations campaign to improve the image of biotechnology, and challenged commonsense biotechnology safeguards and rules - even including opposing laws requiring the labeling of genetically-engineered (GE) foods."

 

According to consortiumnews.com (March 16, 2014), Morgan Williams is at "the nexus of Big Ag's alliance with US foreign policy."

 

Besides being president and CEO of the US-Ukraine Business Council, Williams is Director of Government Affairs at private equity firm SigmaBleyzer, which touts Williams' work with "various agencies of the US government, members of Congress, congressional committees, the Embassy of Ukraine to the US, international financial institutions, think tanks and other organizations on US-Ukraine business, trade, investment and economic development issues."

 

The US-Ukraine Business Council's 16-member Executive Committee is packed with US agribusiness companies, including representatives from Monsanto, John Deere, DuPont Pioneer, Eli Lilly, and Cargill.

 

The Council's 20 'senior Advisors' include James Greene (Former Head of NATO Liason Office Ukraine); Ariel Cohen (Senior Research Fellow for The Heritage Foundation); Leonid Kozachenko (President of the Ukrainian Agrarian Confederation); six former US Ambassadors to Ukraine, and the former ambassador of Ukraine to the US, Oleh Shamshur.

 

Shamshur is now a senior advisor to PBN Hill + Knowlton Strategies - a unit of PR giant Hill + Knowlton Strategies (H+K). H + K is a subsidiary of the gargantuan London-based WPP Group, which owns some dozen big PR firms, including Burson-Marsteller (a long-time Monsanto advisor).

 

Hill + Knowlton Strategies

 

On April 15, 2014 Toronto's Globe & Mail newspaper published an op-ed piece by H+K assistant consultant Olga Radchenko. The piece railed against Russian President Vladimir Putin and "Mr. Putin's PR machine" and stated that

 

"Last month [March 2014 - a month after the coup], a group of Kiev-based PR professionals formed the Ukraine Crisis Media Centre, a voluntary operation aimed at helping to communicate Ukraine's image and manage its messaging on the global stage."

 

The PBN Hill + Knowlton Strategies website states that the company's CEO Myron Wasylyk is "a Board member of the US-Ukraine Business Council", and the company's Managing Director/Ukraine, Oksana Monastyrska, "leads the firm's work for Monsanto."Monastyrska also formerly worked for the World Bank's International Finance Corporation.

 

According to the Oakland Institute, the terms of the World Bank/IMF loan to Ukraine have already led to "an increase in foreign investment, which is likely to result in further expansion of large-scale acquisitions of agricultural land by foreign companies and further corporatization of agriculture in the country."

 

Meanwhile, Russia's Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev stated in April: "We don't have a goal of developing GM products here or to import them. We can feed ourselves with normal, common, not genetically modified products. If the Americans like to eat such products, let them eat them. We don't need to do that; we have enough space and opportunities to produce organic food."

 

Hill + Knowlton, with its Kuwait 'incubator babies atrocities' falsehood, was instrumental in getting the American public to back the first Gulf War on Iraq in the early 1990s.

 

Now the company is involved in fomenting a Cold War 2 or worse, and on behalf of Monsanto - recently voted the "most evil" corporation on the planet.

 

That's something to recall in the midst of the extensive mainstream media demonizing of Putin.

[Strontium]

Disease-resistant crops, oh the horror!

[Anubis]

Good find, J. The full effects of the Ukranian 'revolution' in action.

[Anubis]

Disease-resistant crops, oh the horror!

 

Which aren't needed in a country which can feed itself on naturally grown crops which don't make billions for a multinantional. Oh, the horror.