Analysis: How Lucas controlled the game

[Pureblood]

Let's just see if we replace him in January. If we don't it's because you're wrong again. I could reply to your hundreds of words with hundreds of my own but then you'd write thousands of words in reply without conceding an inch of ground so i prefer this way.

[Rotpeter]

It's like Stewart Downing all over again. Yawn!

[ElishaScottBC]

It's like Stewart Downing all over again. Yawn!

 

*violently sick everywhere*

[Boss]

Lucas is competent, that's the extent of it. The less Lucas does, the more people seem to rave about him, it's a bizarre paradox. The whole "passing stats" argument is redundant without context, of course he has high passing stats, he always chooses the safest pass. How many times have you seen him make a defence cutting pass like the one Henderson made to Suarez the other day? 

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Let's just see if we replace him in January. If we don't it's because you're wrong again.

In what way? I said I think we need to upgrade on him, not that we will definitely replace him. Not that the manager doesn't rate him. That I think we need a better, more mobile player in that position. Actually, I think we need two. That doesn't mean I definitely think he will be replaced. Actually, I think Rodgers might buy somebody to play with him.

 

I could reply to your hundreds of words with hundreds of my own but then you'd write thousands of words in reply without conceding an inch of ground so i prefer this way.

Yeah, because you're famed for your objectiveness when it comes to Lucas. You'd happily change your mind on him given reasoned debate.

[Jairzinho]

Lucas is competent, that's the extent of it. The less Lucas does, the more people seem to rave about him, it's a bizarre paradox. The whole "passing stats" argument is redundant without context, of course he has high passing stats, he always chooses the safest pass. How many times have you seen him make a defence cutting pass like the one Henderson made to Suarez the other day? 

 

Judging a holding midfielder on their pass completion rate is far less redundant than on the amount of defence cutting passes they make.

[Guest LFD]

Why are people knocking his passing?  He keeps the ball, he often passes forward and quickly. 

 

He's no Alonso or Pirlo, but he's no worse than Hamann or Mascherano were on the ball.

 

I disagree with NV about his positioning as well.  I think that is a strength of Lucas, being in the right position, reading the game and I'd say he was better than Mascherano at that as well.  But Mascherano was more athletic to get away with not always being in the right position.

 

The problem with Lucas is his mobility / lack of pace.  It shouldn't be a problem if he was surrounded by energy, but he isn't he is alongside Gerrard and that's his problem as well.  I also think given our centre backs are usually deep it exposes this weakness in his game, at times.

[Pureblood]

In what way? I said I think we need to upgrade on him, not that we will definitely replace him. Not that the manager doesn't rate him. That I think we need a better, more mobile player in that position. Actually, I think we need two. That doesn't mean I definitely think he will be replaced. Actually, I think Rodgers might buy somebody to play with him.

 

 

In the way that ever since Rodgers has been appointed manager you've been harping on about "upgrading" (what a lovely politically correct way to say someone should be replaced) him.  Firstly with Allen and Sahin (going so far as to say Lucas would lose his place to them) and now with any number of players plying their trade away from the Premier League, so that you can show off your super duper knowledge of footballers  with wonderful shiny names everywhere.  In the way that on every transfer thread you'll post a formation with two of said wonderful shiny names in the holding midfield positions and Leiva's name conspicuous by its absence.  In the way that we've had three full transfer windows to "upgrade" the player and yet he's still quite comfortably first choice pick in his position. In those ways.

 

I don't have to change my stance on Lucas because I've been right all along and almost everybody else has been wrong. 

[Pureblood]

Why are people knocking his passing?

 

Because they are right thick cunts.

[Section_31]

Have always thought Lucas is just above average, nothing more.

[Coro]

His ability to receive the ball from the defence with his back to play and provide a basis to attack from is hugely overlooked.

 

We're still getting used to a more open, attacking style. We now overrun the lesser sides and in time we will find the right balance against the better teams. For the time being we will look stretched in certain games, it's not about individuals it's about the system and with it come risks that the manager is willing to take.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Why are people knocking his passing?

Because it's not particularly a strong point of his. His passing is, like most things, middling. I've always been pretty consistent on Lucas. When people were panning him, insulting him for being a joke player, I was sticking up for him, saying he's a decent enough player who has undergone a big adjustment. Now, it has gone the other way; he's still the same fairly decent player. Some, well a few, seem to think he's absolutely brilliant. I don't agree with them. That's all, no big deal.

 

He's no Alonso or Pirlo, but he's no worse than Hamann or Mascherano were on the ball.

Well, I've got to disagree mate. Mascherano, now playing in the best ball playing team I think football has seen, was very good with the ball. It goes deeper than that, though. Mascherano was a brilliant tackler for us, tenacious, quick, mobile, intelligent about the areas he moved into, closed at the right time, held off at the right time.

 

I disagree with NV about his positioning as well.  I think that is a strength of Lucas, being in the right position, reading the game and I'd say he was better than Mascherano at that as well.  But Mascherano was more athletic to get away with not always being in the right position.

Well, we obviously disagree very much about it, because if you think Lucas' reading of the game and positioning is better than Mascherano, we're just on absolutely different ends of the spectrum.

 

 

I don't have to change my stance on Lucas because I've been right all along and almost everybody else has been wrong.

No.

[Coro]

Lucas is playing a specific role linking defence to attack so of course his passing is going to be 'middling'.

 

He finds the space and time to make the right passes. Call him a water carrier or whatever but not all players are blessed with the same composure.

[Guest LFD]

Well, I've got to disagree mate. Mascherano, now playing in the best ball playing team I think football has seen, was very good with the ball. It goes deeper than that, though. Mascherano was a brilliant tackler for us, tenacious, quick, mobile, intelligent about the areas he moved into, closed at the right time, held off at the right time. 

 

Well, we obviously disagree very much about it, because if you think Lucas' reading of the game and positioning is better than Mascherano, we're just on absolutely different ends of the spectrum.

 

I agree about Mascherano being a brilliant tackler for us, I never said otherwise.  Mascherano is a better holding midfielder than Lucas.  But it doesn't mean he does everything better than Lucas or that Lucas isn't good enough for us.  For me Lucas is better on the ball, in the air and his positioning is slightly better.  Not that Mascherano's was poor, he was just a little more indisciplined, but then again he had Alonso behind him which covered those minor positional errors at times and as I said his energy allowed him to get back into position quickly.

 

I loved Mascherano, he is a better tackler than Lucas, has more energy, is quicker and more mobile.  But it doesn't mean he is better than Lucas in every area of his game.

[Jairzinho]

I agree about Mascherano being a brilliant tackler for us, I never said otherwise.  Mascherano is a better holding midfielder than Lucas.  But it doesn't mean he does everything better than Lucas or that Lucas isn't good enough for us.  For me Lucas is better on the ball, in the air and his positioning is slightly better.  Not that Mascherano's was poor, he was just a little more indisciplined, but then again he had Alonso behind him which covered those minor positional errors at times and as I said his energy allowed him to get back into position quickly.

 

I loved Mascherano, he is a better tackler than Lucas, has more energy, is quicker and more mobile.  But it doesn't mean he is better than Lucas in every area of his game.

 

Mascherano is a far more intense footballer than Lucas, which, some of the time, more than 50% of the time probably, is a good thing. At times, it isn't. Mascherano can sometimes make rash decisions, with or without the ball. More so than Lucas.

 

He's an immense footballer though is Mascherano. I'd love him to come back, much more than I'd like Alonso to come back in fact.

[Pureblood]

Lucas Leiva delivered a stellar performance in the centre of midfield Liverpool’s 4-0 win over a hapless Fulham side in the Premier League at the weekend.

The Brazilian has improved considerably in recent weeks after a tactical switch from Reds boss Brendan Rodgers, in which he ‘flipped the triangle’.

Rodgers used the term to describe moving Gerrard further up the field against West Bromwich Albion and Arsenal, but he reversed the decision against Martin Jol’s side.

However, this was not the usual midfield ’2-1′ that Rodgers favours, with Lucas and Gerrard sitting deep behind a ’1′, normally Philippe Coutinho or Jordan Henderson.

Gerrard was noticeably more advanced than usual, as evidenced by his Action Areas below, leaving Lucas behind to hold the midfield together on his own.

 

Oddly enough, Lucas seems to flourish when asked to shoulder the burden on his own rather than share it with a fellow defensive midfielder.

He gave the Reds a stable platform from which to attack from, allowing for a fluid attack with the ‘SAS’ partnership of Luis Suarez and Daniel Sturridge taking centre-stage.

Lucas’ superb distribution was the highlight of his game, completing 87 of his 90 passes for a 97% pass accuracy rate over 90 minutes.

 

In addition, he won seven out of nine tackles, five of seven headers, made two interceptions and completed two successful clearances, a total of four defensive actions.

A very solid all-round performance from the Brazilian midfielder, and surely goes a long way to help regain the confidence he seemed to lose after his two successive injuries.

Liverpool fans would love nothing more than to see Lucas shake off his injury woes and rediscover the form that made him one of their most highly-rated players just a couple of seasons ago.

 

http://squawka.com/news/2013/11/11/lucas-revival-continues-vs-fulham/2013111134269

[Captain]

Why are people knocking his passing?  He keeps the ball, he often passes forward and quickly. 

 

He's no Alonso or Pirlo, but he's no worse than Hamann or Mascherano were on the ball.

 

I like Lucas, but in no way is he Hamann quality on the ball.

[Guest LFD]

I like Lucas, but in no way is he Hamann quality on the ball.

 

Hamann was great at shielding the ball and winning fouls.  But I wouldn't say his passing was any better than Lucas.  They both keep it simple and that's their job.  

[kemskem]

I couldn't help but notice Coutinho coming back into the middle as well when Gerrard had the shackles off. If he puts a bit of muscle on and improves his tackling, maybe there's a role there for him in the future.

[stringvest]

Legendary thread.  If that was a stellar performance, what was Gerrard's?

[Rotpeter]

Legendary thread.  If that was a stellar performance, what was Gerrard's?

Martin Jol inspired.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Legendary thread.  If that was a stellar performance, what was Gerrard's?

Honestly, I'm not sure I can be involved in a thread where Lucas is being described as better as passing and positioning than the likes of Didi and Mascherano. Fair enough, opinions and all that... but I think it's incredible. Can't you like a player without going to those levels?

[Pureblood]

Legendary thread.  If that was a stellar performance, what was Gerrard's?

 

For the 65 minutes on the pitch it was most excellent.  There's this thing, right, where it's possible for two of our players to have great games.  

[Pureblood]

Honestly, I'm not sure I can be involved in a thread where Lucas is being described as better as passing and positioning than the likes of Didi and Mascherano. Fair enough, opinions and all that... but I think it's incredible. Can't you like a player without going to those levels?

 

Yeah, it's probably best if you're not involved and leave it to the experts. 

[Guest LFD]

Honestly, I'm not sure I can be involved in a thread where Lucas is being described as better as passing and positioning than the likes of Didi and Mascherano. Fair enough, opinions and all that... but I think it's incredible. Can't you like a player without going to those levels?

 

Hamann had better posiitoning than Lucas, I just want to clarify that.

 

But I as much as I rate Hamann and Mascherano, they don't trump Lucas in every department of their games.  They are better holding midfielders all round, but Lucas has strings to his bow that do rival parts of their games.

 

I like Lucas. I am not going overboard with the praise, I have have said what he is good at and his weaknesses.  I even said we can improve on him.  But he makes us a better team with his inclusion and I feel he is a very important player and the results show that the last few years when he has and hasn't played.  You focus more on the negatives and I feel you undermine his strengths.

 

But as you say, opinions!