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Go fuck yourselves FSG


Neil G

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39 minutes ago, Strontium said:

Premier League Panel goes to town on them in this Twitter thread. Nothing we didn't really know already, but it's good that people outside the fanbase are starting to notice.
 

 

 

 

Replying to and
Hard to feel sorry for them when they wear glazer masks at old Trafford and mock clubs in worse owner situations. They soon forgot about the owners whilst having successful seasons, other clubs have never forgot successful or not
 
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Just now, Bobby Hundreds said:

 

 

Replying to and
Hard to feel sorry for them when they wear glazer masks at old Trafford and mock clubs in worse owner situations. They soon forgot about the owners whilst having successful seasons, other clubs have never forgot successful or not
 

That comment how fucking deluded are mancs about themselves and others.

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14 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I'm not sure the point you are making here. Are you saying you believe klopp can find a better home than Anfield? I'm sure he could find a bigger budget, but I'm not sure that's his motivating factor. 

 

While I'm sure klopp would prefer a bigger budget (and he has said he wishes the club would take more gambles) , he equally seems to relish the challenge. While he doesn't cunt the owners off, he's made it clear several times now, not just this summer, that he wishes he had more help, but knew the rules when he signed. Klopp is a man of dignity. You're making him sound like fucking kwasi kwarteng. 

Jurgen Klopp is yes, a man of dignity and also integrity, not just in how he conducts himself openly but also in his guiding principles as a person.

His football philosophy is based around him wanting to build a team, not buy a team (his loyalty to his players is testament to that) and to that, he wants to do it the right way, so would he fit in at an oil state club,?....absolutely not, this fella wants to build and do it the right way, he is well aware of the restrictions that we have in play, or, the exact working would be, the structure, we have play, that dictates how we spend and how we fund.

I find it puzzling that people want to persistently want to drive a wedge between owner and manager, because 'in their' opinion, he's being let down badly etc.... Jurgen Klopp is clever enough and savvy enough to know when he's getting short changed, the signing of an extension on his contract tells me the story on that. 

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13 minutes ago, Chip Butty said:

Jurgen Klopp is yes, a man of dignity and also integrity, not just in how he conducts himself openly but also in his guiding principles as a person.

His football philosophy is based around him wanting to build a team, not buy a team (his loyalty to his players is testament to that) and to that, he wants to do it the right way, so would he fit in at an oil state club,?....absolutely not, this fella wants to build and do it the right way, he is well aware of the restrictions that we have in play, or, the exact working would be, the structure, we have play, that dictates how we spend and how we fund.

I find it puzzling that people want to persistently want to drive a wedge between owner and manager, because 'in their' opinion, he's being let down badly etc.... Jurgen Klopp is clever enough and savvy enough to know when he's getting short changed, the signing of an extension on his contract tells me the story on that. 

Klopp knows he's being short changed. It's why he came out and said he wants the club to take more risks. It's why he spoke out in January 21 too. He doesn't want to speak out, I'm sure he lets them have it behind closed doors all the time. But absolutely he knows the score here. But you have been suggesting he's on the take for his silence or similar. He's just a professional. 

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What Stront's posted in readable form -

 

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1587417617303834624.html

 

The process of Liverpool’s decline did not start this season. This has been several years in the making & a common theme of Klopp being left short in the transfer market. A thread on why the bottleneck for Liverpool’s success is at ownership level. 
 
Now to start this story, we must go back to the 2018 transfer windows and the lauded buys of VVD & Alisson. 2 key pieces to winning trophies.But ultimately funded by the freak £130m sale of Philippe Coutinho.Henry himself admitted both buys wouldn’t have been possible without it. 
 
These buys were not a result of ownership ambition. It was capitalising on the perfect storm of: A) Klopp developing an inconsistent player to one who then had world class output, B) PSG supplying a careless Barcelona with an exorbitant £200m for Neymar. 
 
Coutinho leaving in January 2018, left LFC short of attacking depth. Mané-Firmino-Salah had little support & it proved costly in the 2018 CL final. With Salah injured (after LFC had started well), Klopp shoehorn e midfielder Lallana at RW. LFC did not look the same team & lost. 
 
In fact with VVD’s fee being completely covered by Coutinho in January 2018, there should have been £ to spend on a replacement for the Brazilian (particularly with Sturridge leaving on loan too), but in a familiar theme to come, Klopp was left short & a trophy left on the table. 
 
In summer 2018: Alisson joined (covered by Coutinho), with Fabinho, Keita & Shaqiri. This was one window where FSG had a respectable net spend of £127m. However the fact this is a window which is looked at as being abnormal for a club who generates huge revenues, is telling. 
 
As examples, even clubs like West Ham had a £148m net spend & Forest £140m during the summer 2023. This type of window in 2018 should be the bare minimum for a club who generates as much revenue as Liverpool, but it in fact was an anomaly. 
 
In fact, the issue of Coutinho not being replaced again in the summer 2018 remained an issue in 2018/19. LFC were near flawless but lost the title by 1 point. There were several draws including the two 0-0s in March vs Man Utd & Everton, where LFC couldn’t break the deadlock. 
 
There was simply not enough attacking depth in the squad to call on. Sturridge (shadow of his peak self & injury-prone),Shaqiri (£13m punt & Origi were the options. In fact, it almost cost LFC the CL. Klopp somehow produced a 4-0 miracle vs Barca with a Shaqiri-Origi-Mané front 3.
 
Next was the worst window of them all - the summer 2019 window. After winning the CL, LFC failed to use their status & bought one senior outfield players - Adrian. Even this “buy” (for free) was laced with irony. 
 
Mignolet (a solid backup) was sold for £6m & replaced with a free transfer in Adrian - another measly cost-cutting measure. Pennies (in football terms) but it ended up costing a whole trophy with Adrian’s 2 errors vs Atléti sending them out the CL when they were at their peak. 
 
LFC won the PL in 2019/20 so some said the window of buying nobody didn’t cost them. But this misses the point- lack of squad refreshment in previous windows is why the LFC squad is as stale as it is today.Btw,Klopp somehow won the PL with just Origi & Shaqiri as attacking depth. 
 
Summer 2020 brought in Jota, Tsimikas & Thiago (all good buys), but it was a familiar story of Klopp being left short & effectively exchanging squad depth in one area for losing it in another.Lovren was sold to fund the above buys & in what proved a fatal choice,was not replaced. 
 
The freak situation of VVD, Matip & Gomez all being injured for the season occurred by January & LFC went from leading the title race to a top 4 battle in a few weeks. Gomez & Matip were already known to be injury-prone, so the choice not to replace Lovren was always a big gamble.
 
Not only did LFC take this gamble but they didn’t even rectify it in January.The CBs they brought in were Kabak & Davies. Players who have gone on to play averagely for Norwich & Sheff Utd since- total cost of £0.5m.Klopp somehow scraped top 4 using Williams/Phillips/Kabak at CB. 
 
The summer 2021 window was a familiar story of exchanging depth in one area for depth in another area. Konaté was brought in to finally address the CB issue. However, stalwart Wijnaldum (who provided the defensive balance & ball retention in midfield) was lost & not replaced. 
 
This came after the Thiago-Fabinho-Wijnaldum midfield trio had such a brilliant run at the end of the previous season to get LFC top 4. The importance of Wijnaldum’s profile has always been clear. Liverpool suddenly became much easier to counter-attack. 
This was clear in high scoring draws vs Brentford & Brighton and a loss vs West Ham. Whenever Keita or Thiago were not available to play the left-sided 8 role, Liverpool struggled - 18 out of LFC’s 22 dropped points came when this was the case, due to poor on & off-ball control. 
 
Both Keita & Thiago were known to have bad injury records so not strengthening in midfield was an exact replica of the 2020 debacle of not buying another CB to cover for the injury-prone Gomez/Matip. 
 
There was also another issue - Henderson had declined yet he still started 29 PL games. 7 G/A in those games (as the most attacking midfielder in the 4-3-3) & a decline in high speed running distances. It culminated in his poor CL final performance. LFC were 2 midfielders short. 
 
This was also clear in most matches LFC played vs the top 4- their midfield got outclassed regularly.They won just 1 of 9 games vs them & not by coincidence it was with the Thiago-Fabinho-Keita trio all fit (very rare) vs City in the FA Cup semi.The area to improve was midfield. 
 
But yet again in summer 2022, the midfield was not addressed (similar pattern to not addressing attacking depth in 2018 & 2019). And with Fabinho in decline,Henderson so far beyond being useful as a PL starter & Thiago/Keita’s injuries, LFC’s midfield is getting cut thru at will. 
 
“LFC have 9 midfielders” is one rhetoric- Thiago/Keita/Ox injury prone. Henderson & Milner declined. Carvalho not a midfielder. Jones/Elliott not ready to be starters. And Fabinho in possible decline having carried the burden since Wijnaldum left. Quality/availability > quantity. 
 
There’s also long-term impact on players that LFC caused by having inadequate depth during Klopp’s reign. Firmino, Robertson & Wijnaldum had indestructible bodies. But the lack of depth/rotation meant they were ran into the ground. All have had form dips/picked up more injuries. 
 
Sadio Mané was perhaps another victim of this if you look at his huge playing load under Klopp & decline since 2020. Fabinho is very likely suffering this issue now - ironically Wijnaldum often filled in well for him at 6. Another chain reaction of not replacing the Dutchman. 
 
There is also the elephant in the room that Klopp has too much loyalty by keeping declining players like Henderson & Milner. 
This is certainly a fault of his but with FSG’s theme of not spending adequately previously, it seems convenient for them to just be content to go along with these decisions rather than encourage a different line of thinking. 
 
Plus because of a constricted budget, there must be a sense of pressure for Klopp to only sign targets who are ‘absolutely perfect fits’ because he does not have the luxury of spending again to correct any errors. Hence a utopian mindset of targeting just Tchouameni & Bellingham. 
 
Net spend summary under Klopp:
•2016/17 - £5m profit
•2017/18 - £10m profit
•2018/19 - £127m spend
•2019/20 - £31m profit
•2020/21 - £60m spend
•2021/22 - £52m spend
•2022/23 - £13m spend

£206m total net spend in 7 seasons. 
For context: Man City’s total in the same period - £486m.
West Ham spent £148m alone in one transfer window. 
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15 hours ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

 

 

Replying to and
Hard to feel sorry for them when they wear glazer masks at old Trafford and mock clubs in worse owner situations. They soon forgot about the owners whilst having successful seasons, other clubs have never forgot successful or not
 

That last bit is utter bullshit. I don't know anyone in our fanbase who would do that. The only thing they chant is Glazers in. This is because for some apparent reason they only choose to protest when they play us despite having other home games to do so. The bellends are usually caught on camera singing about Liverpool while they are allegedly protesting  against their owners. 

 

They also got one of our games rescheduled while they smashed up their own stadium and vandalised the Liverpool team bus but didn't get any punishment or forfeited the points.

 

The Mancs call Liverpool fans murderers. The ones who killed two Middlesbrough fans at Ayresome Park by storming into the stadium and pushing a wall onto them. Also killed a Crystal Palace fan before an FA Cup semi final. 

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17 hours ago, Chip Butty said:

Bloody good question, why would he stay here when he is short changed consistently and knowingly, (apparently) all the time and him a very forthright and opinionated kind'a guy who somehow believes in the project here and how the club is developing and blow me - he signed a 3rd? contract renewal. Why wouldn't he want to be at the club?

 

He could quite easily of decided to leave and have probably bar man city - have every club in the cosmos vying for his signature.?......Maybe we are buying his silence to stay here, or, he just may well like it here and, possibly, 'the club are shitting on him mantra' isn't a thing at all - he's happy with everything here?

 

And now the council give him freedom of the city, its a all big ruse I tells ye! and the council are bloody in on it as well!

I think he enjoys the club,the city,the fans,the history and not being able to just spend on a whim hence the challenge. But I do believe he's especially frustrated of late and not just through the injury situation. He is an absolute brilliant manager and a miracle worker but he is now being cut short of not just money but players in general. The 'trimming of the fat' is now cutting off the lean meat too. He wouldnt even need much help,but he needs some. Even if it is a couple of old heads to pad the squad. The Artur signing was an insult to him.

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11 minutes ago, Harry Squatter said:

That last bit is utter bullshit. I don't know anyone in our fanbase who would do that. The only thing they chant is Glazers in. This is because for some apparent reason they only choose to protest when they play us despite having other home games to do so. The bellends are usually caught on camera singing about Liverpool while they are allegedly protesting  against their owners. 

 

They also got one of our games rescheduled while they smashed up their own stadium and vandalised the Liverpool team bus but didn't get any punishment or forfeited the points.

 

The Mancs call Liverpool fans murderers. The ones who killed two Middlesbrough fans at Ayresome Park by storming into the stadium and pushing a wall onto them. Also killed a Crystal Palace fan before an FA Cup semi final. 

They were also loving Gillet and Hicks and showed zero support then. They where quiet as fuck when successful and have been everytime they have put a run together but mostly those cunts are the highest net spending team in the world over the last decade. The idea they and other clubs fought the good and honest fight and never forgot their roots is laughable. Liverpool fans got Hicks and Gillett out being organised boycotting sponsors and firms who where going to loan them money, United fans bought green and gold scarves and shut up after every 100 million they spent.

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7 hours ago, Jairzinho said:

What Stront's posted in readable form -

 

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1587417617303834624.html

 

The process of Liverpool’s decline did not start this season. This has been several years in the making & a common theme of Klopp being left short in the transfer market. A thread on why the bottleneck for Liverpool’s success is at ownership level. 
 
Now to start this story, we must go back to the 2018 transfer windows and the lauded buys of VVD & Alisson. 2 key pieces to winning trophies.But ultimately funded by the freak £130m sale of Philippe Coutinho.Henry himself admitted both buys wouldn’t have been possible without it. 
 
These buys were not a result of ownership ambition. It was capitalising on the perfect storm of: A) Klopp developing an inconsistent player to one who then had world class output, B) PSG supplying a careless Barcelona with an exorbitant £200m for Neymar. 
 
Coutinho leaving in January 2018, left LFC short of attacking depth. Mané-Firmino-Salah had little support & it proved costly in the 2018 CL final. With Salah injured (after LFC had started well), Klopp shoehorn e midfielder Lallana at RW. LFC did not look the same team & lost. 
 
In fact with VVD’s fee being completely covered by Coutinho in January 2018, there should have been £ to spend on a replacement for the Brazilian (particularly with Sturridge leaving on loan too), but in a familiar theme to come, Klopp was left short & a trophy left on the table. 
 
In summer 2018: Alisson joined (covered by Coutinho), with Fabinho, Keita & Shaqiri. This was one window where FSG had a respectable net spend of £127m. However the fact this is a window which is looked at as being abnormal for a club who generates huge revenues, is telling. 
 
As examples, even clubs like West Ham had a £148m net spend & Forest £140m during the summer 2023. This type of window in 2018 should be the bare minimum for a club who generates as much revenue as Liverpool, but it in fact was an anomaly. 
 
In fact, the issue of Coutinho not being replaced again in the summer 2018 remained an issue in 2018/19. LFC were near flawless but lost the title by 1 point. There were several draws including the two 0-0s in March vs Man Utd & Everton, where LFC couldn’t break the deadlock. 
 
There was simply not enough attacking depth in the squad to call on. Sturridge (shadow of his peak self & injury-prone),Shaqiri (£13m punt & Origi were the options. In fact, it almost cost LFC the CL. Klopp somehow produced a 4-0 miracle vs Barca with a Shaqiri-Origi-Mané front 3.
 
Next was the worst window of them all - the summer 2019 window. After winning the CL, LFC failed to use their status & bought one senior outfield players - Adrian. Even this “buy” (for free) was laced with irony. 
 
Mignolet (a solid backup) was sold for £6m & replaced with a free transfer in Adrian - another measly cost-cutting measure. Pennies (in football terms) but it ended up costing a whole trophy with Adrian’s 2 errors vs Atléti sending them out the CL when they were at their peak. 
 
LFC won the PL in 2019/20 so some said the window of buying nobody didn’t cost them. But this misses the point- lack of squad refreshment in previous windows is why the LFC squad is as stale as it is today.Btw,Klopp somehow won the PL with just Origi & Shaqiri as attacking depth. 
 
Summer 2020 brought in Jota, Tsimikas & Thiago (all good buys), but it was a familiar story of Klopp being left short & effectively exchanging squad depth in one area for losing it in another.Lovren was sold to fund the above buys & in what proved a fatal choice,was not replaced. 
 
The freak situation of VVD, Matip & Gomez all being injured for the season occurred by January & LFC went from leading the title race to a top 4 battle in a few weeks. Gomez & Matip were already known to be injury-prone, so the choice not to replace Lovren was always a big gamble.
 
Not only did LFC take this gamble but they didn’t even rectify it in January.The CBs they brought in were Kabak & Davies. Players who have gone on to play averagely for Norwich & Sheff Utd since- total cost of £0.5m.Klopp somehow scraped top 4 using Williams/Phillips/Kabak at CB. 
 
The summer 2021 window was a familiar story of exchanging depth in one area for depth in another area. Konaté was brought in to finally address the CB issue. However, stalwart Wijnaldum (who provided the defensive balance & ball retention in midfield) was lost & not replaced. 
 
This came after the Thiago-Fabinho-Wijnaldum midfield trio had such a brilliant run at the end of the previous season to get LFC top 4. The importance of Wijnaldum’s profile has always been clear. Liverpool suddenly became much easier to counter-attack. 
This was clear in high scoring draws vs Brentford & Brighton and a loss vs West Ham. Whenever Keita or Thiago were not available to play the left-sided 8 role, Liverpool struggled - 18 out of LFC’s 22 dropped points came when this was the case, due to poor on & off-ball control. 
 
Both Keita & Thiago were known to have bad injury records so not strengthening in midfield was an exact replica of the 2020 debacle of not buying another CB to cover for the injury-prone Gomez/Matip. 
 
There was also another issue - Henderson had declined yet he still started 29 PL games. 7 G/A in those games (as the most attacking midfielder in the 4-3-3) & a decline in high speed running distances. It culminated in his poor CL final performance. LFC were 2 midfielders short. 
 
This was also clear in most matches LFC played vs the top 4- their midfield got outclassed regularly.They won just 1 of 9 games vs them & not by coincidence it was with the Thiago-Fabinho-Keita trio all fit (very rare) vs City in the FA Cup semi.The area to improve was midfield. 
 
But yet again in summer 2022, the midfield was not addressed (similar pattern to not addressing attacking depth in 2018 & 2019). And with Fabinho in decline,Henderson so far beyond being useful as a PL starter & Thiago/Keita’s injuries, LFC’s midfield is getting cut thru at will. 
 
“LFC have 9 midfielders” is one rhetoric- Thiago/Keita/Ox injury prone. Henderson & Milner declined. Carvalho not a midfielder. Jones/Elliott not ready to be starters. And Fabinho in possible decline having carried the burden since Wijnaldum left. Quality/availability > quantity. 
 
There’s also long-term impact on players that LFC caused by having inadequate depth during Klopp’s reign. Firmino, Robertson & Wijnaldum had indestructible bodies. But the lack of depth/rotation meant they were ran into the ground. All have had form dips/picked up more injuries. 
 
Sadio Mané was perhaps another victim of this if you look at his huge playing load under Klopp & decline since 2020. Fabinho is very likely suffering this issue now - ironically Wijnaldum often filled in well for him at 6. Another chain reaction of not replacing the Dutchman. 
 
There is also the elephant in the room that Klopp has too much loyalty by keeping declining players like Henderson & Milner. 
This is certainly a fault of his but with FSG’s theme of not spending adequately previously, it seems convenient for them to just be content to go along with these decisions rather than encourage a different line of thinking. 
 
Plus because of a constricted budget, there must be a sense of pressure for Klopp to only sign targets who are ‘absolutely perfect fits’ because he does not have the luxury of spending again to correct any errors. Hence a utopian mindset of targeting just Tchouameni & Bellingham. 
 
Net spend summary under Klopp:
•2016/17 - £5m profit
•2017/18 - £10m profit
•2018/19 - £127m spend
•2019/20 - £31m profit
•2020/21 - £60m spend
•2021/22 - £52m spend
•2022/23 - £13m spend

£206m total net spend in 7 seasons. 
For context: Man City’s total in the same period - £486m.
West Ham spent £148m alone in one transfer window. 


Interesting stuff. 
 

However, how does our wage bill today compare to five years ago or three years ago? How does it compare to clubs who aren’t Manchester City? That’s surely of great relevance here too when we’re operating under financial limitations. It isn’t as simple as just transfer fees. 
 

 

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7 hours ago, Harry Squatter said:

That last bit is utter bullshit. I don't know anyone in our fanbase who would do that. The only thing they chant is Glazers in. This is because for some apparent reason they only choose to protest when they play us despite having other home games to do so. The bellends are usually caught on camera singing about Liverpool while they are allegedly protesting  against their owners. 

 

They also got one of our games rescheduled while they smashed up their own stadium and vandalised the Liverpool team bus but didn't get any punishment or forfeited the points.

 

The Mancs call Liverpool fans murderers. The ones who killed two Middlesbrough fans at Ayresome Park by storming into the stadium and pushing a wall onto them. Also killed a Crystal Palace fan before an FA Cup semi final. 

I am pretty sure they also cay=used the death of a Spurs? fan on an escalator back in the 1970s?

 

Here.

 

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1981/11/21/Brawling-soccer-fans-fighting-their-way-up-a-crowded/1492375166800/

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30 minutes ago, El Rojo said:


Interesting stuff. 
 

However, how does our wage bill today compare to five years ago or three years ago? How does it compare to clubs who aren’t Manchester City? That’s surely of great relevance here too when we’re operating under financial limitations. It isn’t as simple as just transfer fees. 
 

 

The other thing is are the other clubs wages in their account including Pension and NI contribution and all admin staff.

 

Unless we are comparing identical data its useless.

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Fenway Sports Group (FSG) has put Liverpool up for sale.

A full sales presentation has been produced for interested parties.

FSG has looked at opportunities in the past but decided against moving forward with them. It is unclear whether or not a deal will eventually be done, but FSG is inviting offers.

Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley have been retained to assist with the process.

A statement from FSG, who also own the Boston Red Sox, to The Athletic read: “There have been a number of recent changes of ownership and rumours of changes in ownership at EPL clubs and inevitably we are asked regularly about Fenway Sports Group’s ownership in Liverpool.

“FSG has frequently received expressions of interest from third parties seeking to become shareholders in Liverpool. FSG has said before that under the right terms and conditions we would consider new shareholders if it was in the best interests of Liverpool as a club.

“FSG remains fully committed to the success of Liverpool, both on and off the pitch.”

The group has owned Liverpool since October 2010, when it bought the club from George Gillett Jr. and Tom Hicks.

During that time, Liverpool appointed Jurgen Klopp as manager. They won their first Premier League title in 2019-20, which was also their first championship for 30 years. They also captured the FA Cup, Carabao Cup and the Champions League.

During FSG’s ownership Anfield has been transformed, with a new £110million Main Stand, while the Anfield Road Stand is being redeveloped. That £80m project will be completed next summer and boost capacity to around 61,000.

FSG has also overseen the club’s move from Melwood to a new £50m training facility in Kirkby.

It is principally owned by John W. Henry, who was one of two founders alongside chairman Tom Werner. FSG also own the Red Sox, television network NESN, 50 per cent of Roush Fenway Racing and Fenway Sports Management.

FSG sold an 11 per cent stake in the company for $750m (£655m) to RedBird Capital Partners last year and subsequently bought a controlling stake in top-flight NHL ice hockey team the Pittsburgh Penguins.

There have been controversial elements to FSG’s ownership of the club. In 2019, they were criticised after the club tried to trademark the name Liverpool, with supporters’ group Spirit of Shankly campaigning against the move.

Liverpool were also one of six Premier League sides to commit to the failed European Super League last year. After protests, they withdrew from the project. Henry apologised publicly to the fans.

When Werner spoke to The Athletic in May, he insisted FSG wasn’t going anywhere. He said: “Yes, we still see it as a long-term project. We are hungry to win more trophies for the club.”

The most recent takeover of a major Premier League side was the Todd Boehly-led purchase of Chelsea, which cost £4.25billion.

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