Rise of the far right in Europe.

[Jose Jones]

32 minutes ago, Captain Willard said:

No its not the point. The point is drag is mainly about parodying and laughing at women. Its not harmless fun, it's hateful, the gender equivalent of blacking up. The reason that this TV program is so unpopular with both men and women is that most people realize this. 

Hateful really?

Surely drag queens just evolved from centuries ago when women weren't allowed on the stage so men had to play the female roles?  I mean now, that I write it - that basis does sound a trifle misogynistic., and also historically equivalent to the origins of black face.  Maybe I should shut up.

Incidentally - Gwyneth Paltrow in Shakespeare in Love... drag king?

 

[Pidge]

1 hour ago, Captain Willard said:

No its not the point. The point is drag is mainly about parodying and laughing at women. Its not harmless fun, it's hateful, the gender equivalent of blacking up. The reason that this TV program is so unpopular with both men and women is that most people realize this. 

 

Utter hysterical bollocks. You were talking shite, and asked for evidence, and I provided it. 

 

It's isn't even close to blackface. It is not "parodying women", it is a camp pisstake of cultural norms themselves. Drag was a refuge from those norms, historically (last 150 years, not 3/400), at times were gay men could not legally associate. Far more about mocking the weight of masculinity those people lived under than femininity.

 

Blackface, in the sense of the minstrel show, was about presenting a false, dumbed down projection of black people as comedic figures that sustained the notion of inferiority and minimised the deprivation those people faced.

 

Total false equivalence. One was about liberation, the other was a tool of oppression.

[Pidge]

And I couldn't care less how popular it is, I've never even watched an episode of the fucking thing...

[AngryOfTuebrook]

20 minutes ago, Pidge said:

And I couldn't care less how popular it is, I've never even watched an episode of the fucking thing...

Although the suggestion that Ru Paul's Drag Race is "massively unpopular" is a spectacularly wacky one: like it or not, it is one of the most popular cultural phenomena of our time.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

 Spot on

 

 

This is the best you can come up with as proof of "highly sexualised" Drag Queen Story Hour? As he's leaning for a book, you can see his tights (and, if you really zoom in, what looks like undies under his tights). That's it.

 

If it's all the same with you, I'll continue to oppose the Fascists who are bent on stirring up fear and homophobic hatred against these events.

[Kepler-186]

Dr Matthew Street has helped expose GB News headbanger Neil Oliver promoting anti semitic conspiracy theories. 
 

https://amp.theguardian.com/media/2023/feb/08/jewish-groups-urge-gb-news-to-stop-indulging-conspiracy-theories

 

https://www.thejc.com/news/news/mps-and-board-of-deputies-slam-antisemitic-conspiracy-theories-on-gbnews-7034XOJGx29iU82NfNSPfq?reloadTime=1677542400011
 

A few of the founder of GB News and UnHerd Paul Marshall’s retweets.

 

1) COVID misinformation 

 

2) Distrust of an “elite” while being in the elite 

 

3) won’t somebody think of the white working class kids? (Unless it’s free school meals in the holidays then they can starve because their parents are crack

heads) 

 

4) Nasty liberals with their agendas listen to my simple solution I’ll make you feel like a real man. 

 

5) In defence of 30p Lee from

the hang ‘em and flog ‘em brigade Nottinghamshire Scab Division. 

 

 

[Skidfingers McGonical]

6 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

This is the best you can come up with as proof of "highly sexualised" Drag Queen Story Hour? As he's leaning for a book, you can see his tights (and, if you really zoom in, what looks like undies under his tights). That's it.

 

If it's all the same with you, I'll continue to oppose the Fascists who are bent on stirring up fear and homophobic hatred against these events.

Playing Devil’s Advocate here, are you saying it’s ok for a fella in drag to sit with his legs wide open in a short dress in front of young children, but it’s not acceptable for a woman to do it?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

18 minutes ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

Playing Devil’s Advocate here, are you saying it’s ok for a fella in drag to sit with his legs wide open in a short dress in front of young children, but it’s not acceptable for a woman to do it?

No. He's obviously not sitting like that; he's obviously off-balance (leaning for a book). Pictures of women like that used to be paparazzi gold, but now they're illegal.

[Rico1304]

6 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

This is the best you can come up with as proof of "highly sexualised" Drag Queen Story Hour? As he's leaning for a book, you can see his tights (and, if you really zoom in, what looks like undies under his tights). That's it.

 

If it's all the same with you, I'll continue to oppose the Fascists who are bent on stirring up fear and homophobic hatred against these events.

Best I can come up with? This is a picture of a man, dressed as a woman with children sitting in front of him. His legs are wide open.  
 

If you want I can get you quite a few examples of proper noncing from the US.  But you won’t read it, like you didn’t respond to the men screaming at women yesterday or the stuff about Tavistock as you are a massive hypocrite.  

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 minute ago, Rico1304 said:

Best I can come up with? This is a picture of a man, dressed as a woman with children sitting in front of him. His legs are wide open.  
 

If you want I can get you quite a few examples of proper noncing from the US.  But you won’t read it, like you didn’t respond to the men screaming at women yesterday or the stuff about Tavistock as you are a massive hypocrite.  

You say you can get examples of "proper noncing" and yet... whenever Stronts (he's done better research on this than you) has come up with examples, none of them add up to any fundamental problems with Drag Queen Story Hour which would justify the Fascist-led protests. (Looks like Houston has a safeguarding problem: that doesn't mean you'll find the same here.)

[AngryOfTuebrook]

5 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

    But you won’t read it

That would make your life easier. Unfortunately, I do read them (just like I did respond, in detail, to your posts yesterday).

[Captain Willard]

7 hours ago, Pidge said:

 

Utter hysterical bollocks. You were talking shite, and asked for evidence, and I provided it. 

 

It's isn't even close to blackface. It is not "parodying women", it is a camp pisstake of cultural norms themselves. Drag was a refuge from those norms, historically (last 150 years, not 3/400), at times were gay men could not legally associate. Far more about mocking the weight of masculinity those people lived under than femininity.

 

Blackface, in the sense of the minstrel show, was about presenting a false, dumbed down projection of black people as comedic figures that sustained the notion of inferiority and minimised the deprivation those people faced.

 

Total false equivalence. One was about liberation, the other was a tool of oppression.

Look at this picture of a male school teacher on his way to teach young girls in Canada and tell us with a straight face that you think this is all about liberation and not hateful parodying. 

[Captain Willard]

7 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Although the suggestion that Ru Paul's Drag Race is "massively unpopular" is a spectacularly wacky one: like it or not, it is one of the most popular cultural phenomena of our time.

According to the very link you posted, It was less popular than the live feed from the European Parliament. This is the problem with living in a cultural echo chamber, you only hear the views that you agree with. 

[Rico1304]

3 minutes ago, Captain Willard said:

Look at this picture of a male school teacher on his way to teach young girls in Canada and tell us with a straight face that you think this is all about liberation and not hateful parodying. 

He’s played a blinder too. Claimed he’s a woman and that the massive boobs are a medical condition. What can the school do, demand he provides medical records? That cuts right through self ID.  

[Rico1304]

9 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

That would make your life easier. Unfortunately, I do read them (just like I did respond, in detail, to your posts yesterday).

Did you? In the Trans thread - I’ll pop over for your condemnation.  

[Rico1304]

2 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Did you? In the Trans thread - I’ll pop over for your condemnation.  

You’ve not clicked the links according to your posts. 

[Pidge]

33 minutes ago, Captain Willard said:

Look at this picture of a male school teacher on his way to teach young girls in Canada and tell us with a straight face that you think this is all about liberation and not hateful parodying. 

Not a drag act.

 

Yesterday you were talking about citing transphobia in defence of drag artists as being spurious, today you're using an extreme example of trans issues to attack drag... 

[Rico1304]

3 minutes ago, Pidge said:

Not a drag act.

Man, dressed as a parody of a woman, in front of kids.   
 

What do you think of this?  All examples like this cut to the heart of the complete nonsense you are supporting.  

[Pidge]

2 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Man, dressed as a parody of a woman, in front of kids.   
 

What do you think of this?  All examples like this cut to the heart of the complete nonsense you are supporting.  

Like blaming legislation that isn't in force for institutional failure, this is deliberately confusing the issue for the convenience of a wider agenda. 

 

A drag act is an entertainment act, that picture is an individual who may or may not be trans, but is not there to entertain. I don't care if they are or are not actually trans they should not be allowed to carry their persona to such extremes in schools.

[Rico1304]

4 minutes ago, Pidge said:

Like blaming legislation that isn't in force for institutional failure, this is deliberately confusing the issue for the convenience of a wider agenda. 

 

A drag act is an entertainment act, that picture is an individual who may or may not be trans, but is not there to entertain. I don't care if they are or are not actually trans they should not be allowed to carry their persona to such extremes in schools.

So if he was reading a book to the kids it’d be ok as he was there to entertain?  

[Pidge]

Just now, Rico1304 said:

So if he was reading a book to the kids it’d be ok as he was there to entertain?  

No, if he was employed to entertain the children for an event he'd be there to entertain. There might be an issue with the choice of entertainer, but that applies to anyone brought in for such events.

[Rico1304]

1 minute ago, Pidge said:

No, if he was employed to entertain the children for an event he'd be there to entertain. There might be an issue with the choice of entertainer, but that applies to anyone brought in for such events.

Sorry, I was unclear.  
 

If he wasn’t a teacher, but was an entertainer, the outfit would be fine?  

[Captain Willard]

4 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Sorry, I was unclear.  
 

If he wasn’t a teacher, but was an entertainer, the outfit would be fine?  

This is the intellectual rabbit hole that trying to defend drag acts as being harmless to women and actually somehow  liberating gets you to. He can’t dress like that as a teacher but he can as an entertainer but even then there still might be an undefined “issue ?” . Also I think you’ll find that referring to him as “he” is regarded as transphobia by some.

[Rico1304]

4 minutes ago, Captain Willard said:

This is the intellectual rabbit hole that trying to defend drag acts as being harmless to women and actually somehow  liberating gets you to. He can’t dress like that as a teacher but he can as an entertainer but even then there still might be an undefined “issue ?” . Also I think you’ll find that referring to him as “he” is regarded as transphobia by some.

It’s also the direct result of self ID.  If a person has to have a diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria it weeds out the dickheads, the chancers and some of the perverts.  All of this was entirely predictable but people pointing it out are screamed at in parks.  

[Pidge]

7 minutes ago, Captain Willard said:

This is the intellectual rabbit hole that trying to defend drag acts as being harmless to women and actually somehow  liberating gets you to. He can’t dress like that as a teacher but he can as an entertainer but even then there still might be an undefined “issue ?” . Also I think you’ll find that referring to him as “he” is regarded as transphobia by some.

 

No the issue is pretty clearly defined, that schools and libraries etc have a responsibility to vet people they bring in for events. Just didn't think it needed spelling out because I sometimes forget the need to make every conversation on this topic into the dullest, most drawn out back and forth imaginable.

 

As for saying "he"? If I said "they" you'd be whinging about that too, sometimes it's worth just not bothering to adjust the language you are responding to.