Thatcher nearly DEAD!!!

[FanchesterCity]

To think they already made a movie glorying her no doubt shell be seen as a hero by some one she dies if the media have anything to do with it.

 

One example Jade Goody the media labled her as a Dumb Blonde Pig then when she got Cancer painted her as some hero who they always loved and people read and followed suit the media is extremely powerful they control what people think and do with out the people knowing.

 

Oh of course, she divides opinion. Let's not forget people DID vote for her. Repeatedly.

 

When she goes, the papers will be full of her 'achievements'. Some might make mention of her many failings, but most likely in passing. I suspect they'll give her a little grace before the more negative documentaries really start (after the funeral!).

 

That's the media for you.

 

Sadly they can swing public opinion, quite dramatically sometimes, and Liverpool is easy pickings for them. If there's already a certain perception of Liverpool, it's very easy for them to enhance that perception.

 

Manchester United has a certain media image. Liverpool another (less favourable one).

 

And there is the crux of the issue... the media will pick up on anything possible to sell a paper and pander to 'kick Liverpool' fanaticism. The media LOVED the police 'revelations' about Hillsborough. It sold papers. The apologies in recent weeks didn't have quite the same marketing power.

[zigackly]

Another suggestion I have is that we take the subject away from the f***b**l on the GF.

[FanchesterCity]

How can we change that and im really confused here. Peoples attitudes are i dont want a dead end job but if you good at your job then its not dead end is it. My first job when i left scool was making boxes. I thought it was Dead end boy was i wrong them factories are everywhere.

 

You change it in the pub.

You change it at the match.

You talk about how good it is to work.

You encourage a mate to apply for one more job.

You understand that a guy out of work isn't useless, he's been laid off, that's all.

You don't cheer a mate who's bragging about the benefits he's on.

 

That's how you change perception.

 

It's how you change perception about Hillsborough too... you tell people to READ the Taylor report.

You stop them in their tracks when they come out with something that's simply incorrect.

You explain to them what actually happened - but not in a 'the police were wankers' way. You explain it sensibly and coherently that multiple mistakes were made, not only by the police, but the FA and SWFC too, and how it suited everybody concerned if the fans were blamed.

 

If enough people do that, and they don't give it... it changes things, slowly, but it changes things.

[FanchesterCity]

Another suggestion I have is that we take the subject away from the f***b**l on the GF.

 

Agreed, definitely general forum or something.

Although it might have reached end of life before Thatcher !

[zigackly]

Here's a quick one for Simon and anyone else too young to know anything much about the bitch before I get some kip:

 

20 REASONS WHY I HATE THATCHER

 

1. As Education secretary under Edward Heath in a foretaste of what is to come, stops free milk for school children. No chance of the widely praised 'free fruit' scheme ever being Tory policy! She later deregulates school meals so all they have on the menu is burger and chips! The health of the nation was not something Thatcher thought any of her concern.

 

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2. Shamelessly uses the 'race card' to get elected PM in 1979! (Though I wont claim her to be the first Tory leader to use this and certainly not the last!) "We are being flooded!" she asserts despite figures showing emigration higher than immigration and immigration at its lowest post-war level. Her idols are Keith Joseph (who ruined his own chance of being leader with a demon eyed rant on TV about sterilising the poor (I jest not!!)) and Enoch Powell (the 'intellectual' racist). She promotes Keith 'Eugenics' Joseph to Education Minister!

 

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3. Monetarism! Disastrous policy of trying to control money supply. In the first of her two recessions (the worst since the 1930's), one fifth of our industrial base is wiped out and unemployment is more than doubled, there are summer riots in every inner-city in the country. Not bad for her first 2 years in office! In the first of many U-turns (see point on 'myth of strong leader'), she abandons monetarism. Polls predict Labour landslide and despite the resolute support of the press, she is the most unpopular PM on record. How could she possibly get out of this one?

 

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4. The Falklands! In a gross piece of incompetence (or was it deliberate?) fails to avert the Falklands crisis by ignoring intelligence on the Argentine preparation for invasion in early 1982. Indeed she seems to positively encourage it by proposing scrapping the only warship we have there and having her defence secretary Nicholas Ridley openly say we didn't want the Falklands, thereby giving the impression we are not bothered about the islands! In 1978 when faced with the same intelligence, the Labour government quietly averts a war through diplomatic channels by threatening to send a taskforce. It's the classic tale, to divert attention from disastrous economic policies at home a crooked leader engages in a foreign war (except I'm not talking about Galtieri!). Perhaps Thatcher was getting advise from some of the brutal dictatorships she helped prop up in South America, "Would you like some more tea Mr Pinochet?". Number of British soldiers killed, 278, Argentines, 3000+. Blood on her hands anyone?

 

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5. Destruction of local democracy. The beauty of not having a written constitution, having the backing of the press, having a massive majority in parliament (despite only getting 42% of the vote, less than 1 in 3 of the electorate) and having a permanent inbuilt Tory hereditory second chamber is that Tory PMs can do whatever they like. If you dont like local democracy because they vote for someone else, just abolish it like Thatcher did and centralise everything from Whitehall and unelected Quangos who you carefully select. (Yes, Thatcher invented Quasi Autonomous Non-Governmental Organisations.) The popular GLC was scrapped despite over 80% of Londoners being opposed. Londoners have to wait over 13 years before getting an assembly back and electing Livingstone as its leader once again.

 

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6. Politicising the civil service. See point about QUANGOs above. Also if you dont like what statistics the statistics office is publishing, make sure you stop them collecting the statistics and stop them publishing them. The figures that were published on individual wealth and earnings each year were abolished in this way. The Office for National Statistics like the Bank of England was made independent by this Labour government and yes they have started publishing the wealth and earnings figures again.

 

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7. Regressive Taxation. Under Thatcher VAT increased from 8% to 17.5% and was also levied on utility bills for the first time as well. What she gave the rich in income tax cuts she took from the poor in indirect taxation. The proportion of GDP spent by the government under Thatcher stayed fairly static at around 40%. The difference was that rather than spend it on the NHS, housing or education she spent the money on defence, a massive expansion of the civil service (see point 6), paying the huge unemployment bill, and rising police salaries to keep them loyal in the face of massive civil unrest. The best part of all was that she shifted the burden of payment for all this onto the poor from the rich.

 

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8. The widening gap between rich and poor. This might not be such a bad thing if the gap had not been so massive in the first place. How can the richest 50% owning 97% of the wealth be fair? This was her starting position she moved wealth almost exclusively to the richest 10% at the expense of the poorest 50%.

 

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9. Spend, spend, spend! Abolishing credit controls seemed such a good idea, the economy booms on a consumer spending bubble....cue second crippling recession. Thanks Margaret! Not to mention the misery caused to millions of people suckered into debts and negative equity! Spend, spend, spend also applied to government borrowing which despite claims of financial prudence increased massively under Thatcher to fund income tax cuts for the rich.

 

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10. Homelessness for the young. Why should homelessness be the preserve of ageing tramps who remember the 1930's. No! Thatcher thought the opportunities should be open to all. Young beggars on the streets were Thatcher's invention. The legacy of massive youth unemployment and crime no-go areas for the police are still being fought today. There is a whole generation of people where crime and welfare culture was their only way of surviving and it became their mindset.

 

11. The Poll Tax! Regardless of how you view this in theory, apart from its regressive nature, it quite plainly was unworkable. They knew that it was going to be ridiculously expensive to collect, that there was overwhelming opposition to it (it ruined the 1991 census) and was going to mean massive non-payment and it was responsible for some of the worst rioting ever seen in central London but they pressed ahead anyway. Another U-turn inevitably came!

 

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12. The myth of the strong leader. This was a total invention of the press. Thatcher's only strength (if you could call it that) was that she had no principles at all! She was an anti-smoking campaigner who ended up on the payroll of British American Tobacco. She had to do a U-turn on her 'flagship' economic policy after 2 years because she had wrecked the economy (see point 3) (This was just one year after her famous speech in 1980 where she assured the party faithful she was going to stick to monetarist policies-"You turn if you want to...the lady's not for turning"-yeah right!!). The Poll Tax was a disaster which she had to U-turn on (but too late to save her from being stabbed in the back!). She went to Europe saying she was against federalism but signed its most federalist law (the Single European Act in 1986). She later claimed she was tricked on this. Did she even know what she was doing? Some strong leader that is! And to top it all off, even in departure she was weak. "I fight on, I fight to win" she said in her pompous way before quietly resigning hours later when confronted by Ministers like Geoffrey Howe!!! It was the final U-turn from a weak puppet leader whose only qualities (as far as the Tories were concerned) were she did what she was told.

 

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13. Degradation of the social professions. Social workers were virtually denounced as criminals! Teachers were so derided and there pay so eroded it barely survived as a profession and things like mental health, just loose them out on the streets, Thatcher's government didnt care what they did!

 

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14. Victorian Values. Yes before its Back to Basics successor under Major, Thatcher promised to take us back to Victorian morality and she nearly succeeded. We were not far away from child labour and seething slums of humanity and disease. I reckon Thatcher needed one more term for that!! She also took care to defend to the hilt her countless Ministers who were caught with their trousers down or hands in the till or both in some cases! Cecil Parkinson, Alan Clark, David Mellor, Jeffrey Archer (3 times), Jonathon Aitkin (twice)... etc. etc. the list goes on.

 

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15. "There is no such thing as society". Did Thatcher foresee the 'playstation' generation? Selfishness as a virtue seemed to sum up her warped sense of morality to me.

 

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16. Over-privatisation and overt corruption. Oh the beauty of it, a totally dominant monopoly privatised at a discount price to big business (lots of it foreign owned) so they can cream off profits to their hearts content. Who can do without Water, Gas, Electricity? We can charge what we like! Plus we get the bonus of nice jobs on more Quangos OfWat, OfGas, Of-with taxpayers cash we go. With Ministers interchanging between the boardrooms of the newly privatised companies and the regulating boards on massive salaries. Even husband and wife teams, remember Mr and Mrs Howe, one a consultant with a privatised firm, his wife the regulator. Anyone for insider dealing calls out Mrs Archer! Oh jolly good show! Even industries that plainly werent feasible for privatisation like bus and rail, go for it, it wont hurt. And what shall we do with the money my dear? Well my son Mark has shares in a nice defence firm! Rather, still some left over for a nice reduction in the top rate of income tax as well.

 

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17. Even public service broadcasting couldnt escape. Relentless bullying of the BBC was started by Thatcher, she took this to a new level with Tebbit and various other ministers calling it the Bolshevic Broadcasting Company because it failed to replicate Sun editorial lines in its news broadcasts. In one of her last acts she even managed to wreck Channel 4' s public service commitment by changing its funding situation from one of subscription from ITV who sold its advertising space to total dependence on advertising.

 

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18. The divisiveness of the North-South divide in wealth. Look at the political map and you can still see where the Conservatives win most of their seats in the South East because of this.

 

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19. Regular winter crises in the NHS became the norm. The Tories argued these were inevitable because we couldnt afford to fund the NHS properly.

 

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20. Crime rates doubled under Thatcher. This is probably the most surprising statistic of the lot when you consider the Tories so called strong standing on law and order. It just goes to demonstrate why we need a history lesson about Thatcher and not the lies printed in the right wing owned press.

 

NEIL HARDING: 20 REASONS WHY I HATE THATCHER.

 

That doesn't even touch what she did to industry and the working class in this country, but it adds some of the other shit she pulled.

Edited September 23, 2012 by zigackly

[Strontium]

Most of those are valid, but that school milk was fucking horrible.

[Sugar Ape]

I wasn't fussed about the milk, but I loved the Lincoln biscuits you used to get.

[Strontium]

You got biscuits? Fucking hell, how the other half live...

[Sugar Ape]

Little carton of milk and two Lincoln biscuits. Gorgeous they were, don't think they make them now.

[Remmie]

Can we all agree that Thatcher was rather naughty?

[Section_31]

I think Thatcher and Reagn's legacies are similar. They didn't have a brain cell between them but were there to drive an agenda, and the agenda was to increase wealth for those at the top at the expense of everyone else - it really is that simple.

 

They did it by turning the individual into the drivier rather than 'the state' (which they demonsied) or 'the community' (which they rejected the value of), whatever you want to call them, but which for my money has probably made - certainly Britain at least - a more unpleasant place to live socially, led to higher crime - and, oh yes, brought both ecnomies to the brink of collapse.

 

The footsoldiers of this brave new world were the middle classes, she didn't need the working man - neither did America. In this scenario I picture Britain as three housing estates, working, middle and upper. Thatcher decided she didn't need the working one, so what did she do? Did she offer the people there free passage to the middle one? Did she try and invest in them to help them reskill? No - she just turned the water off. She built a wall around them, upped the wages of the police and army to prepare for the blowback, she planted MI5 agents in their unions, describing them as the enemy within - and then she just turned the water off.

 

The class war was never fought it was just lost. The working class estate which once flourished with community, were usually built around a particular industry - industries which turned this country from a piss ant island into a global powerhouse - and where people lived, were schooled, played sports and drank together as father and son - had now become a sink estate where nothing happened and where people lived as best they could. The community was gone, so was the guidance, the mutual support, the self-regulation - the idea that someone would look after your kids if you were ill or would give the local knobhead a talking to, that ended - now the state had to do it.

 

We're still dealing with the fallout of this now, but we don't know how to do it. They're the 'underclass', the detritus of the working class with no work to do. So how do we deal with them? We vilify them, scorn them, put them on the Jeremy Kyle show, put them behind a wall and forget about them - unless they knife a banker - and just hope they don't kick off like they did with the English riots - because if they do we're fucked, so we'll put them through night courts and send the coppers around if they post 'hurtful messages' to Tom Daily on Twitter, because this BBM shit needs to stop, like right now.

 

When Labour came in, rather than turn the water back on, itorganised a rescue programme instead. It said 'anyone who wants to, can go to college and uni - that's your best bet of getting into the next estate, we'll even pay you to do it.

 

So a few left. They settled in the middle estate, but there were so many with degrees and so few decent jobs that they ended up on the public tit. After a few years of bumming around as office monkies they decided to become coppers and teachers, and aren't they very proud of themselves? Middle class but without the class, they care nothing for politics, nothing for sociaty as a whole, they're children of the new system - they have a mortgage and car payments, and live in a new build house with daisy prints from NEXT on the wall and a well ordered DVD shelf containing every episode of LOST, they work all the time and tell themselves they've got there through their own hard work - even though their GCSEs, A Levels and degrees were systematcially made easier - but they think they're the bollocks, so 'scroungers' and probably 'asylum seekers' don't deserve their empathy. They also have a spectacular capacity for indifference, whether it be the death of their own high street or efforts to strip them of their own pension - they're willing footsoldiers, they see the alternative, going back from whence they came - and all they know is they don't want that - these are the people whose votes everyone is trying to win, this is why politics no longer cares for ideology, because these people don't understand it or care about it, social engineering is Thatcher's legacy, coupled with New Labour's.

 

 

These types, and the modern working man in general, is driven only by his wage packet and his outgoings. So you'll see a large number of teachers now who probably didn't want to be a teacher, coppers who can't really be arsed doing that, and nurses who're planning their night out while you sit in your own shit. The idea of the job having a meaning beyond paying your bills and allowing you a wine bar swagger is gone.

 

The upper estate though isn't filled with the establishment as it once was. It's some bent Russian tin merchant, Peaches geldoff, and the majority of the new breed of Westminster politicians. They're the new gods of Mount Olympus and are largely indifferent to what the others are doing because, if worst comes to the worst, their estate has got a runway.

Edited September 23, 2012 by Section_31

[VladimirIlyich]

Great Article Zig.

 

Simon,how can you say that nobody wants to work? I suggest you stop watching those crappy tv documentaries and see the bigger picture. If you mean the idle rich as well as a few people happy to earn £50 a week then that's fine but your comments are a view that's been born of the propoganda spread through the media.

There have always been work shy people but before the mid to late 1970s people could work for a short while then quit a job until their money ran out and then laze around until they felt like getting another.Apart from the wealthy this is now just another one of those situations that has disappeared because of very few jobs. Good you may say but at least these situations encouraged lazy people to get jobs,for a little while at least,as the pay was at a level where it discouraged people getting benefits and encouraged self sufficiency.

 

Lots of people want to work but there are either no jobs or they would be financially worse off taking jobs,particularly lots of people with young families who have to watch every penny.

Instead of punishing these people by slashing benefits then how about creating jobs that pay enough to stop them needing to claim benefits,especially as the wealth of the wealthy few has increased while the rest have been forced to accept pay freezes or cuts?

The money is there as they can cut the higher rate of tax by 5% and allow corporations to dodge a tax bill that would go a long way to funding the NHS.

 

This is the kind of society that Thatcher created and which is now being ruthlessly pursued again by her admirer,Cameron and one which those of us who have experienced that society before hoped we'd never see again and its not a pleasant one for the average person.

[Sut]

These types, and the modern working man in general, is driven only by his wage packet and his outgoings. So you'll see a large number of teachers now who probably didn't want to be a teacher, coppers who can't really be arsed doing that, and nurses who're planning their night out while you sit in your own shit. The idea of the job having a meaning beyond paying your bills and allowing you a wine bar swagger is gone.

 

Off topic, but that bolded bit is me now. I loved my job as a teacher but got to the point last year where I was heading for a nervous breakdown. I read somewhere that being a teacher is a bit like being in an abusive relationship: you put up with the shit because the positives keeps you going. Unfortunately, the positive experiences are outweighed by the negative at least 10:1. Work had me acting out of character at home, arguing, snapping at people and being generally horrid to be around. It was when the veneer I maintained in school started to slip in front of my colleagues that I decided I had to go. I resigned my post and it was like a cloud lifted, something that was commented on by everyone. Now, I'm looking around to see what else I can do while doing supply work. I'm still not sure that teaching is what I want anymore, but it's been a big part of my life for the past 12 years, so I'm giving supply a go for 12 months to make sure I'm making the right decision.

 

Apologies for going off topic.

[VladimirIlyich]

 

Off topic' date=' but that bolded bit is me now. I loved my job as a teacher but got to the point last year where I was heading for a nervous breakdown. I read somewhere that being a teacher is a bit like being in an abusive relationship: you put up with the shit because the positives keeps you going. Unfortunately, the positive experiences are outweighed by the negative at least 10:1. Work had me acting out of character at home, arguing, snapping at people and being generally horrid to be around. It was when the veneer I maintained in school started to slip in front of my colleagues that I decided I had to go. I resigned my post and it was like a cloud lifted, something that was commented on by everyone. Now, I'm looking around to see what else I can do while doing supply work. I'm still not sure that teaching is what I want anymore, but it's been a big part of my life for the past 12 years, so I'm giving supply a go for 12 months to make sure I'm making the right decision.

 

Apologies for going off topic.[/quote']

 

Don't think its off topic at all. Just goes to show how jobs that were once considered an enjoyable experience are now dangerous to peoples health.

These jobs are very much a reflection on the society we know have.

Moulded and nurtured by the topic of the thread.

[Section_31]

Agreed. Teachers are all things to all men now, social workers, surrogate parents - again - another aspect of the fallout of destroying family and community.

[Sut]

Agreed. Teachers are all things to all men now, social workers, surrogate parents - again - another aspect of the fallout of destroying family and community.

 

And general whipping boy, but that's another thread.

[celeryBADboy]

Great Article Zig.

 

Simon,how can you say that nobody wants to work? I suggest you stop watching those crappy tv documentaries and see the bigger picture. If you mean the idle rich as well as a few people happy to earn £50 a week then that's fine but your comments are a view that's been born of the propoganda spread through the media.

There have always been work shy people but before the mid to late 1970s people could work for a short while then quit a job until their money ran out and then laze around until they felt like getting another.Apart from the wealthy this is now just another one of those situations that has disappeared because of very few jobs. Good you may say but at least these situations encouraged lazy people to get jobs,for a little while at least,as the pay was at a level where it discouraged people getting benefits and encouraged self sufficiency.

 

 

Lots of people want to work but there are either no jobs or they would be financially worse off taking jobs,particularly lots of people with young families who have to watch every penny.

Instead of punishing these people by slashing benefits then how about creating jobs that pay enough to stop them needing to claim benefits,especially as the wealth of the wealthy few has increased while the rest have been forced to accept pay freezes or cuts?

The money is there as they can cut the higher rate of tax by 5% and allow corporations to dodge a tax bill that would go a long way to funding the NHS.

 

This is the kind of society that Thatcher created and which is now being ruthlessly pursued again by her admirer,Cameron and one which those of us who have experienced that society before hoped we'd never see again and its not a pleasant one for the average person.

 

Lie i said i post things the way i see them mate. I never said all but theres a vast majority that want a certain job and wont do fuc all else im one for the moment i Tarmac but when in England i dont want to do much else other than cheffing but i will bite my tongue and ill do what i need too. Also there are plenty of jobs you just have to widen your choices.

[VladimirIlyich]

There are always jobs but working on the till at asda part time while a parent of a couple of kids isn't really an option for a lot of people.

Plenty of jobs? If you include the above,working in the corner shop,what's left of them or doing a paper round then I suppose you are right.

[Furmedge]

There are fuck all jobs in my sector. I've been outside of it for the past 4 years but widened my net for 3 of them, but even that now has become too small a net to cast. I'm now working in manufacturing at the age of 33, something I've never done before but it pays the bills (just) and keeps my family fed and watered with a roof over their head. If I was to lose this I'd go under because as rightly mentioned above the only other jobs I can go for without experience are part time/low pay. It's slowly gone downhill and unfortunately doesn't look like changing any time in the next few years. I can understand people who don't take up the option to work for pennies when they can earn more/the same claiming benefits and allowances, giving them all their time to spend with their kids.

 

Off topic, but I missed out on a job this week by a fraction and had the interviewer call me and apologise for me missing out because he really wanted me but was out voted 2-1 with the deciding vote taking two days to come to while they decided between me and somebody else. It was so fucking cushy looking after a CRM system in a college and could do it standing on my head. Was fucking gutted going into work that night for a 9 hour night shift on a production line.