Agger doesn't want a new contract?

[Kevin D]

Because Riise gave Chelsea nothing for the first the 88 minutes , then well. Games can change in an instant and when dealing with an explosive player like Drogba , who was at home and very fired up , the first twenty minutes can be deceptive.

[snez1]

I think too much is made of Sami's age given the quality of defender he is. He's still more than capable of playing 40 games a season to a very high level. I can accept your valid claims about not wanting to cause instability in the CB position but considering we've got options there that are unmatched , is not likely to think we'll see some rotation their anyway? Moreover that Hyypia and Carragher have an understanding that is very strong and would not in anyway be disrupted by rotation.

 

I strongly believe that Hyypia is a better defender than Skrtel and as such should play ahead of him. I think the FA cup and League cup should be the rest Sami needs and as I reckon we'll be through by the 4th game the CL would not have had too much of an effect on his condition. He was our best defender last season despite , probably, playing too many games. There's no reason why , since we can now ease his load with quality like Skrtel, that he can't still be at the heart of our defence.

 

 

If you think he's one of the best 2 CB's at the club, fair enough but i disagree. I think he's slow and his presence stops us from defending higher up the pitch which is what we do when Agger/Skrtel partners Carra. But that's not important, you think he's still the best defender at the club, i don't.

 

However, i don't think we should be rotating our CB's too much and while i accet it will happen some times, with Sami as first chocie there would be a much greater need to do it consistantly. CB's have to build up understandings like Carra and Martin have been doing for the last 8 months or so, not changing regualrly.

 

If we weren't defending well, keeping clean sheets or if Skrtel had been poor, then fine i think you could argue for Sami coming in (personally Agger is still aheead of him in the pecking order for me) but right now thats not even the case.

[snez1]

Because Riise gave Chelsea nothing for the first the 88 minutes , then well. Games can change in an instant and when dealing with an explosive player like Drogba , who was at home and very fired up , the first twenty minutes can be deceptive.

 

I'm not even going into the SB game it's stupid, Srktel played 20 minutes and i'm not using that performance as a reason why he should be in the team, i shouldn't have mentioned it.

 

At Anfield however he was superb and played Drogba better than Sami ever has. He was fucking immense against a top top striker and i was using that as a counter to him apparantly not playing Carew too well.

[Ged B]

Can't believe people are actually suggesting Sami should be put back in as a first choice CB, bizarre. Has everyone forgotten how shaky he was looking when he was playing three games in a week a few seasons ago? And how much more solid we looked when Agger took his place in the team?

 

As for the Skrtel vs Agger debate, I agree with a lot of what snez has said.

Long term I think Agger will quite rightly reclaim his place in the team as he is a more gifted player and his potential is enormous, but Martin has been excellent so far this season and doesn't deserve to be dropped at the minute.

[bobhorse]

Cant be arsed to read all of the posts in the thread but have read a few on this page and you cant look at CB as individuals they are a partnership and the Skrtel Carra one works very well Its not a case of Agger over Skrtel to partner Carra

 

Agger started in pole position this season remember alongside Carra

 

Things go on at a football club we don’t understand at the time but later when the facts start to come out they make perfect sense

 

I would put it to you that we have a very large squad of first team players.

Then a large youth reserve set up.

Now if Rafa has been told that he has to generate his own transfer kitty by selling players from the squad? He might look to areas where he has player’s abundance for the position? And also as cover from a strong reserve section.

So he looks at how he can bring in as much money as possible, from this lot in order to strengthen areas where he might be short on cover, or where he might want to bring in an improvement.

Faced with that, who would you move on, and from what areas of the team.

 

 

For what it is worth here is my 2peneth

 

CB 4 top class defenders at various stages of there careers

Sammi - would bring in a little in transfer cash but would be worth more as back up

Carra - not a chance he will be sold

Skrtel - Bought only last year good solid and dependable would bring in what we paid for him or maybe a little bit extra

Agger - Excellent young talent been injured for a season would bring in the maximum in terms of fee and is at the stage where contract extensions are being talked about

 

CM

Alonso- Excellent player would bring in around 16M

Gerrard- Club Captain untouchable first name on the team sheet

Masch- best defensive midfielder in the Prem maybe in Europe or the world one of the first names on the team sheet

Plessis - Young excellent prospect that could go all the way to becoming a CM at Prem level

Spearing -Young excellent prospect that could go all the way to becoming a CM at Prem level

 

Strikers

 

Kuyt - lost his place as a striker and now used out on the right passion and power make up for pace in his game worth 10-12m

Torres - Best stiker in the Prem Untouchable

Keane - new signing brought in to partner Torres and now just starting to show in that role

Ngog - free transfer decent young prospect ideal back up

Babel - has everything in his game to become a legend brilliantly used as an impact player at the moment from the bench

Nemeth - Excellent young striker learning his trade and has shown enough to suggest he will make it at the highest level

 

RM

Kuyt - strong non-stop running never say die attitude who gives 100% adapted to the role from his natural one of lead striker would bring in 10-12m

Pennant - has the ability but only shown it in snatches currently not in the side bring in around 6m

Bennayoun - willing to play when required either on the right or behind the main striker has the ability to open teams up and scores goals bring in 6-8m

El Zaha - young talent who has shown that he can play at this level and ideal back up costing little in comparison to some and a player that you could move on in a season or two for him to develop further with games either in the Prem or Championship

 

 

Now when I look at this I see Kuyt, Alonso, Pennant, Agger, as players you could move on to bring in 40M and that could allow you to buy decent players at fullback and either side of Midfield or decent top quality young players from the top end of the market for those areas not all of these would be sold but these areas of the squad are where the fat is and that is where you will look to gain your revenue from

 

That doesn’t mean I would want to sell any of these but if there is little or no money and with players having the ability to walk away for fractions of the true worth there are tough decisions to be made in the coming weeks on both sides

 

I wish these Yanks would fuck off with there debt if you want the club fine pay for it but don’t load it up with debt for the privilege of owning it

[Hamma]

Am I understanding this thread correctly, forumites are essentially suggesting that Rafa should rotate? ...

[Guest The Chimp]

I'm not sure why there's a need to run some players down to "big up" others (dawg). We've got four great centre backs, who can all do a good job for us; in any combination. Remember who and what we had in defence, and look what we've got now. Agger will get his chance, as will Sami, and I'm equally sure they won't let themsleves - or us - down.

[Benitaur]

Facts:

 

1) Partnerships and points lost

a) Carra & Agger 2 seasons ago and beginning of last season

b) We struggled defensively with Carra & Hyypia when Agger got injured

c) We recovered defensively and was solid after Skrtel was acquired

d) Skrtel played as well with either Carra or Hyypia, with no noticeable difference whichever one he partnered

 

Based on that, a strong argument could be put that Skrtel and Agger is better than Hyypia. The points lost and clean sheets prove this too.

 

A strong argument too can be put that it did not matter if Carra is yelling instructions next to Skrtel, the defensive performance was the same even when he partnered Hyypia, not Carra

 

2) Both Hyypia and Carra struggled against world class strikers. Skrtel did not

a) First semi against Chelsea, Drogba was in Skrtel's pocket. Second game was the same too until Skrtel went off injured. Only then did Drogba come to life

b) First game against Berbatov & Keane, both goals Hyypia and Carra were outplayed. Second game with Skrtel, both Berbatov & Keane were anonymous.

 

Skrtel inferior to either Hyypia or Carra? Based on evidence, no. In fact based on evidence, he is better at handling strikers the calibre of Drogba and Berbatov than Carra and Hyypia.

 

As for Skrtel not being able to handle Carew. Thats a silly assertion. Yes, he did lose out to Carew for a header outside the box for a flick on, but most of the match, Carew was marked by Carra:

 

YouTube - 31st August Aston Villa 0-0 Liverpool

 

3) Both Agger and Skrtel are first choice for their countries, won the league in their former club, voted best player of their individual countries, even at their "young" age. They don't lack experience.

 

 

4) We are able to play a more attacking game with Skrtel or Agger replacing Hyypia, as they are both pacey, and we can play higher up the pitch

 

5) Both Skrtel and Agger have a better goal scoring record for their former club and for country than Carra.

 

Conclusion:

Agger and Skrtel are better than Hyypia

 

Arguably both Agger and Skrtel bring more to the table attacking wise and defensively as well than Carra

 

Both are younger than Carra, and are arguably going into their prime, while at Carra's age he would be declining soon.

[Stu Monty]

No matter how good or bad you consider Hyypia to be one of the major factors that mean he isn't going to be getting picked that often over the other three is that if you have him in the side the whole game has to be played twenty yards further back. Condensing the play in the opposition's half isn't as easy as he's vunerable over the top.

[Thants]

I think I may actually cry when Sami hangs up his boots.

 

And I won't have to shit in my hat.

[Paul]

In my view, the issue of who plays centre half has to be Carra plus one other. The other then would be a choice between Agger and Skrtel for me now, as Sami, class though he still is, doesn't have the legs to play week in, week out and we can't afford to be chopping and changing by the match as it's counter-productive to great defending which requires a defence to operate as a unit.

 

In my opinion then, Agger is the one to play with Carra as their games are more complementary and Agger offers more to the team going forward. Skrtel, as I said before the match on Saturday, is looking like a very good signing, but he's not in the same league as the two players I'd have ahead of him. He's still very raw, in my view, and needs to mature in his decision making. He'll get there, no doubt. However, he's not there yet. In fact, as I said previously, I'm pretty sure his rashnessi going to cost us something this season - either a red card, a penalty or even both.

[Dirk]

I think Skrtel is a better defender than Agger but I think Agger is the better footballer. Skrtel is more ruthless in his defending than Agger and I like his assured presence but even though Skrtel is decent on the ball, I don't think he's as accomplished on the ball as Agger and I also suspect that Agger has tighter positional play which, in a sense, could explain why he's less ruthless, perhaps he doesn't need to be? There's not a lot that separates the two of them but I don't think Skrtel has done anything that has warranted being dropped.

 

I can understand Agger's frustrations but I would like it if he would fight for his spot. If he isn't prepared to fight for his place then people might begin to question his desire to play for the club. I like a player that values "the shirt" and does whatever it takes to get back into the side. What does is say about the attitude of a player that is having doubts about his future here 10 games into a season, following a season lay off? It might be perceived as a loose commitment, if indeed any of these stories are correct. Get your head down lad and win your place back. I mentioned earlier that sometimes things happen that aren't worthy of blame and I don't blame him for feeling unsettled and I don't blame Benitez for not dropping Skrtel but I would like to see Agger fight for his place rather than read these stories.

[Glen C]

I love agger and i'd have him in the team ahead of skrtel myself. What i like about agger is that he's the only CB we have that is so accomplished on the ball. Without him in the team you'll find alonso or gerrard dropping back to pick up the ball. But with him in the team they can play further forward because he can bring out the ball himself and start our attacks. I also like when he has those 'alan hansen' moments and takes players on scaring the shit out of me as he keeps going into the oppositions half. Also he can shoot from distance with both feet and him and hyypia seem like the only defenders that get onto headers to score from set pieces. On top of all that he's a top defender who has a better positional sense than skrtel to me and compliments and defender really well.

[Anny Road]

I find this quite worrying. Rafa cannot play him just because he is apparently not happy.

We cannot afford to lose him though. He is the future.

[Unrighteous]

I find this quite worrying. Rafa cannot play him just because he is apparently not happy.

We cannot afford to lose him though. He is the future.

 

Don't worry Anny Road... Agger been quoted saying that he is happy and no quotes on the negative articles.

 

Score.

[Anny Road]

Don't worry Anny Road... Agger been quoted saying that he is happy and no quotes on the negative articles.

 

Score.

Thanks mate I feel better now.

I do suspect that the fact that this story broke in Denmark may be the press there pissed of that their golden boy cannot make it into the team.

[Kurt]

Why was he so good in the CL run in 05 late in the season? Was it coincidence that when he was rested a lot he was better? That was 3 years ago.

 

He's not up to being first choice this season physically. Pace is also important and he has a lot less than Skrtel Agger and Carra. With them in the side we can press higher up the pitch.

 

Fuckin hell you'd think our defence was a shambles and Skrtel was Djimi in disguise according to some people on here. Can't believe Sami is seen as a better bet these days than a fella who has been so good for us since he came here and currently a regular in the best defence in the country. The Agger arguments i can understand to a point, but anyone who thinks Sami should be starting the majority of games this season when we have Agger Skrtel and Carra is just plain wrong. I know Sami is a fucking leg but come on, he's 34 and is a squad player now.

 

Sami has even said so himself. That he knows he cant play every week but if he can play 20-25 matches he would be happy. Last season there were discussions wether we should give Sami a new contract. But after he was dropped from the CL squad he suddenly became our best defender.

 

He is a vital squad member due to his quality and experience, but he is our 4th choice center back and rightly so. And Sami did`nt play superbly for the whole of last season. People keep going on about how Skrtel "rashness" will cost us. But he has played for 9 months without any major errors. Off course he has things to learn, as he is still young. But I dont think we could have expected more from him, except maybe offer a bigger threat on set pieces and offering a couple of goals. But with our shit deliveries on set pieces, that`s easier said than done. That`s one aspect of the game where both Danny and Sami offers us more than Martin.

 

Sami played last season scoring a couple of own goals, and he played really poor in those matches I saw when I was over last year (but he did improve, even more so after Martin arrived and he was rotated more). He also gave away a needless penalty ( due to a rash needless challenge )in the CL semi that probably ended our hopes of reaching the final. So all these errors people keep on waiting for Skrtel to make, Sami made last season when he played.

 

Skrtel will make mistakes. Defenders does ( browse through a few season reviews dvd`s and see how many pens Carra has given away for instance...he`s still our best defender ) as it goes with the territory, and im pretty sure when he makes a mistake there will be a lot of " i told you so`s" on this forum. Also if people take a look on the MotM threads after every match this season, Skrtel has been given quite a few votes after every match. That tells it`s own story. He`s been a find in my opinion, and he will be better.

[zico]

From a purely footballing point of view , without bringing age into this, I just cannot understand it. He's still in my opinion the best defender at this club by a sizeable distance.

 

He is to slow and makes us defend deep...... Which in turn makes us less dangerous attacking....

 

There is a reason we had a bad patch once Agger got injured last season, and did not get back on track until Skrtel was in the team....

 

Not that Hyppia played badly, but the team suffered from having to drop deeper with two fairly slow central defenders.....

[Al Campbell]

I'd play Agger tomorrow. PSV shouldn't have much going forward so we can rotate. And giving him a game in the Champions League instead of the Carling Cup will be a boost to him. It also gives either Carra or Skrtel a rest ahead of what should be a tough game on Sunday.

[zico]

Hyypia started 40 games last season and was our best defender by some margin, your argument is based upon assumptions, not reality.

 

Of those games compared to when Agger or Skrtel partnered Carra at the back how many points did we drop?

 

Hyppia might put in heroic performance with last ditch tackles and heading clearances, but bottom line is we are less dangerous going forward with him in the team than with the other two.

Playing higher up the pitch with Reina sweeping at the back allowes us to win the ball higher and sustain pressure, which in turn gives us more goals. Defending deeper makes us less threatening and we often drop points because we are unable to score...

I do miss him on attacking corners and freekicks though!

 

Carra's form, Aggers attacking abilities and Skrtel's speed makes him 4th choice for the time being......

[zico]

Facts:

 

1) Partnerships and points lost

a) Carra & Agger 2 seasons ago and beginning of last season

b) We struggled defensively with Carra & Hyypia when Agger got injured

c) We recovered defensively and was solid after Skrtel was acquiredd) Skrtel played as well with either Carra or Hyypia, with no noticeable difference whichever one he partnered

 

Based on that, a strong argument could be put that Skrtel and Agger is better than Hyypia. The points lost and clean sheets prove this too.

 

A strong argument too can be put that it did not matter if Carra is yelling instructions next to Skrtel, the defensive performance was the same even when he partnered Hyypia, not Carra

 

2) Both Hyypia and Carra struggled against world class strikers. Skrtel did not

a) First semi against Chelsea, Drogba was in Skrtel's pocket. Second game was the same too until Skrtel went off injured. Only then did Drogba come to life

b) First game against Berbatov & Keane, both goals Hyypia and Carra were outplayed. Second game with Skrtel, both Berbatov & Keane were anonymous.

 

Skrtel inferior to either Hyypia or Carra? Based on evidence, no. In fact based on evidence, he is better at handling strikers the calibre of Drogba and Berbatov than Carra and Hyypia.

 

As for Skrtel not being able to handle Carew. Thats a silly assertion. Yes, he did lose out to Carew for a header outside the box for a flick on, but most of the match, Carew was marked by Carra:

 

YouTube - 31st August Aston Villa 0-0 Liverpool

 

3) Both Agger and Skrtel are first choice for their countries, won the league in their former club, voted best player of their individual countries, even at their "young" age. They don't lack experience.

 

 

4) We are able to play a more attacking game with Skrtel or Agger replacing Hyypia, as they are both pacey, and we can play higher up the pitch

 

5) Both Skrtel and Agger have a better goal scoring record for their former club and for country than Carra.

 

Conclusion:

Agger and Skrtel are better than Hyypia

 

Arguably both Agger and Skrtel bring more to the table attacking wise and defensively as well than Carra

 

Both are younger than Carra, and are arguably going into their prime, while at Carra's age he would be declining soon.

 

Good and well argued post....

[aws]

come on rafa - we'll never challenge unless you start rotating

[Thants]

Its funny cos its true.

[Code]

People needs to learn that when it comes to judging a player what you actually witness with your own eyes is only half the story and maybe not even that, the things you cant actually see is usually much more important.

[Guest TK-421]

People needs to learn that when it comes to judging a player what you actually witness with your own eyes is only half the story and maybe not even that, the things you cant actually see is usually much more important.

 

Eh?