Article in the ECHO about lack of Scouse fans at Anfield

[motty]

Saturday 21 October 2006

 

' On the subject of Manchester United, there's something else they have in common with Liverpool. Walking through the streets of Bordeaux and hearing so many cockney accents from people in Liverpool shirts made those croissants taste particularly sour.

 

Perhaps it's my imagination, but it seems there are even more non-Scouse fans than ever jumping on the Euro-bus. Now I can imagine those who continuously fail to recognise this is a Merseyside paper are preparing a poisonouse response as I speak (even though I've implied nothing yet).

 

I merely offer this as an observation, as much as a chronicle of Liverpool's travels as a comment on the trends. Rightly or wrongly, there are an increasing number of Liverpool people who feel the balance is being tilted in favour of the fans with most cash, many of whom don't come from the city.

 

And there is a genuine fear that when then new stadium is built, not enough care will be taken to ensure The Kop end is packed with Scouser voices, particularly if price rises are maintained at current levels (they may be still lower than the rest of the country, but that doesn't make them cheap).

 

If that happens, the kind of alienation United fans from Manchester have felt will become more apparent at Anfield. As one of the world's biggest clubs, Liverpool have succeeded much more than United in maintaining their local fan base, but with a new stadium imminent there can be no place for complacency.

 

For the Anfield hierarchy, the interests of the people of this city must always be the number one priority '

 

From Chris Bascombe

[DT]

I resent his attitude.

 

Xenophobic shit-stirring, and I fully expect the Echo to balance this out by presenting the opposite view. A local paper it might be, but stuff like this only serves to fuel the argument of the xenophobes in the crowd.

[jackofdk]

I thought one of the good things about a new stadium would be that a lot of the people on the waiting list for season tickets would be able to get one which surely would bring in a lotta locals?

 

And I think Bascombe presents the view rather nuanced (is that even a word?) in this piece.

[wiiksie]

As an oot-er, I agree with Bascombe's basic sentiment, i.e. the community comes first before the brand-marketing. Of course the club needs the money, but it also needs to look after its own.

 

Its the same with over-televisation of matches, if it gets saturated then less people at the match = a shit league.

[fivetimes]

We were discussing this over in Bordeaux.

I see what he is saying, there does seem to be more southern groups going the euro aways. We were in one bar where there was a group of them and I felt as if it was a west ham away. Its not the fact they are OOT-ers, as I have said before, some of the best reds around are not scouse, but there deos seem to be a different element to the euro away crowds now (especially the close ones since anderlecht). Its weird and really hard to explain. It first started in Anderlecht where there was a load of cockneys who werent even reds but had got tickets because "well spurs never get into europe"! I shit you not! One bird even said to my mate that she "knew" someone in Liverpool so it was ok - this despite there being about 200 good reds stuck outside without tickets. There is a definite swing from the TO to give tickets to "people who havent been to euro aways before" (this was a quote from what a women there said to my mate when we got knocked back for PSV despite being too/getting tickets for every euro away in the past 6 years).

The loyalty seems to have gone and its not just me who has noticed this.

 

I think Bascombe is saying some of that with tongue in cheek, as he seems to on a saturday I believe, but some of it is true.

 

I really havent explained this well have I!

[Rushian]

5times - there's been no change in Euro away ticketing policy despite what some bint in the ticket office tried to fob you off with. The same system is in place now as for the last few years. The problem this season was the first Euro away was a close, very inexpensive destination with absolutely loads of different ways of getting there.

 

Bascombe's railing against the wrong (and too easy a) target. He should be bemoaning modern football and the wages the players get because it's that which is forcing ticket prices up. Perhaps next time he interviews Jamie or Stevie he'll put in a request for them to take a pay cut to allow the ticket prices to be reduced.

[fivetimes]

5times - there's been no change in Euro away ticketing policy despite what some bint in the ticket office tried to fob you off with. The same system is in place now as for the last few years. The problem this season was the first Euro away was a close, very inexpensive destination with absolutely loads of different ways of getting there.

 

She must have just been trying to fob us off then if you know for DEFINITE that this is true. There seemed to be a lot of the reds who have been to all the euro aways recently fobbed off for PSV, hence the statement.

 

There is more and more cheap ways of getting to places (esp western europe) that is true.

 

Since Anderlecht though, there has been a difference. Its hard to explain. (and I dont want anyone to take this as an OOT rant - it certainly isnt, I would much rather have decent lads there than a lot of the cunts who go believe me).

 

i wouldnt take Bascombes article to heart though, as I believe he tends to have a bit of fun on a Saturday/footy echo time. I dont buy the echo as I have mentioned since the Juve game so I go on what is posted on here. Remember the one about OOTers a while ago that caused uproar on here!

[ChicagoRed]

What's the problem with OOTs? It's homage to the Reds and the spirit and culture (seriously) of the city of Liverpool. Being a scouser is a privilege and an accident of nature, and widely admired, if somewhat sardonically in some quarters. The club stands for the "no bullshit", let your feet do the talking attitude that people admire in every walk of life, so for me, if they were unluckly enough to be born in Brum or Dagenham, god bless 'em for their aspirations to join the greatest tribe on earth.

 

We'll ever walk alone and all are welcome!

[ChicagoRed]

Bad typo there....."never" of course

[DT]

It's all this "club-is-in-my-blood-coz-I-was-born-less-than-5-miles-from-Anfield-and-my-nan-used-to-clean-the-toilets-at-Melwood-so-a-season-ticket-is-my-birthright" BS that you hear every now and again. We're an easy target.

[Rushian]

She must have just been trying to fob us off then if you know for DEFINITE that this is true. There seemed to be a lot of the reds who have been to all the euro aways recently fobbed off for PSV, hence the statement. There is more and more cheap ways of getting to places (esp western europe) that is true.

 

The problem with the ticket office is they'll fob you off with any old shite to get you out of their face. Remember once ringing up and getting four completely different stories from four different people for one European away all on the same day.

 

I forgot to mention the restricted capacity at PSV which didn't help, coupled with the ease and price of getting there. Anderlecht had a very similar set of circumstances. If it had been Deportivo or Olympiakos or Sofia up first there won't have been the same problems.

 

There's never been a loyalty system in place at the start of the season for Euro aways - always been a lottery for the first game and particularly bad if we have a PSV scenario.

[Paul]

Bascombe has clouded the issue by bringing the Scouse/not-Scouse thing into it. The issue is that loyal fans should be rewarded and new fans should have to wait their turn before getting such access to tickets. There are thousands of long-standing and loyal OOT fans who are ripped off in just the same way as the Scouse ones.

 

This should be about Red credentials not where you were fucking born. To my mind, making a trip to Anfield from Ireland/Norway/London every week shows just as much loyalty as the likes of the away boys on here from Liverpool. If you spend literally thousands of pounds every year on supporting the Reds - and have done for years - you deserve equal consideration to any Red in the same boat, regardless of where you're from.

 

It's the fucking corporate touting of tickets that's affecting the loyal support. Put tickets in the hands of real Reds, not fucking daytripping arseholes coming for "the experience". I'm now in year nine of my wait for an ST and I haven't got a fucking hope of getting one before the move. If more were made available rather than held back for daytrippers with their Liverworld obsession, I'd have had my ST years ago.

[africanherbsman]

I resent his attitude.

 

Xenophobic shit-stirring, and I fully expect the Echo to balance this out by presenting the opposite view. A local paper it might be, but stuff like this only serves to fuel the argument of the xenophobes in the crowd.

Bascombe mentions cockney accents, last time I checked London was in England so I fail to see the xenophobia in his comments. I think Bascombe is making a fair point, it is vital that the club keeps it's connection with the local community and doesn't price them out of the market, after all that's what the foundations of the club were built on. If this relationship is lost then the club would no longer be representing the city of Liverpool. I'm sure the supporters from Merseyside on this forum are aware of the rumour that the ticket office tries to avoid answering calls from 0151 numbers so as to ensure more daytrippers spend money in Liverworld. Before anyone calls me a small minded neo-fascist I have no problem with our oot support and have a couple of old uni mates who supported Liverpool dspite being from other parts of the country. I just feel it's important that the accomodation of these supporters isn't at the expense of local working class fans.

[ScouseJim]

Personally I'd like to see how many of the current OTT supporters would still be watching us if something happened to us like it did to Juventus and we were relegated with a huge points penalty. Some would I know, but all of the ones who were used to seeing Man U, Arse etc. rather than Crewe or Hull.. I'd bet a fair few would discover their allegiances switching. I have no problem with OTT as long as they would support us through thick and thin.

[coop]

The only difference between a fan born in Liverpool and a OOT is the fan from Liverpool has less to travel to home games.

[Lapskaus]

Personally I'd like to see how many of the current OTT supporters would still be watching us if something happened to us like it did to Juventus and we were relegated with a huge points penalty. Some would I know, but all of the ones who were used to seeing Man U, Arse etc. rather than Crewe or Hull.. I'd bet a fair few would discover their allegiances switching. I have no problem with OTT as long as they would support us through thick and thin.

 

Im sure many would switch allegiance, but these guys you can pick out from a mile away. Just like many Scousers would

[Paul]

Personally I'd like to see how many of the current OTT supporters would still be watching us if something happened to us like it did to Juventus and we were relegated with a huge points penalty. Some would I know, but all of the ones who were used to seeing Man U, Arse etc. rather than Crewe or Hull.. I'd bet a fair few would discover their allegiances switching. I have no problem with OTT as long as they would support us through thick and thin.

I think you're confusing OOTs with Daytrippers; there's a massive difference. You only have to talk to someone to know whether they're a real Red: it's in their knowledge, passion and understanding of the club. Their accent means fuck all.

[WaltonRed]

The only difference between a fan born in Liverpool and a OOT is the fan from Liverpool has less to travel to home games.

 

Ive nothing against OOT's to a point but I dont agree with that statement one bit.

[Rushian]

Personally I'd like to see how many of the current OTT supporters would still be watching us if something happened to us like it did to Juventus and we were relegated with a huge points penalty. Some would I know, but all of the ones who were used to seeing Man U, Arse etc. rather than Crewe or Hull.. I'd bet a fair few would discover their allegiances switching. I have no problem with OTT as long as they would support us through thick and thin.

 

Think that's a bit of a myth Jim. The sort of "fans" you're referring to don't go to games and just watch it in the pub with mates wearing their fucking horrible replica shirts.

 

Those rare beasts that do go to games (and it's a tiny % of the overall OOT Red support) would still support the club.

[JER]

Bascombe has had a hard on for OOT'ers for years - I remember an article in the echo a few years back.

 

In fact, here it is - from 2003

 

WHEN you're invited to a friend's house, do you ever criticise all the

furniture, tell the residents they're not good enough to live there and

then ring as many people as possible to have a go at the place?

In the world of football, the thousands of non-Merseyside visitors to

Liverpool FC every fortnight believe it's their right to do so.

If Wednesday evening demonstrated anything, it's how Anfield is a far

warmer place when the capacity is filled mostly by those from the

Merseyside region.

The 42,000 attendance was extraordinary given the opposition and the fact

the game was screened live on terrestrial TV.

It happened because Rick Parry decided to do what other top clubs don't.

Significantly reduce ticket prices and make it possible for more local

fans to see their heroes. It should, and will, happen more often.

Traditionally, the middle class Cornish fans and day-trippers don't like

to go to midweek games. It's too far to travel. The match is on television.

It's a bit cold.

This makes it easier for those on the end of 12 month waiting list for a

Premiership match to get a ticket.

It also means there is about 90 per cent less moaning in the stadium. It

significantly reduces the chances of a panic setting in if Liverpool aren't

two goals up within the space of 20 minutes.

There's also more chance of the second chorus of 'You'll Never Walk Alone'

being completed without that irritatingly premature ripple of applause.

And you'll never, ever, hear Liverpool's players getting booed off when

most of the spectators are Merseysiders. Liverpool people, in general,

don't do that.

A right can of worms I've opened here, of course. Like any good

politician, I should insert my get-out clause and stress there are

exceptions.

I would risk the wrath of my Irish, Norwegian and even London friends who

passionately support Liverpool if I suggested every out-of-town supporter

was to blame for the growing fickleness.

Most are very welcome, adding to the cosmopolitan flavour of the club. It

would be narrow-minded and prejudicial to tarnish everyone with the same

brush.

Equally daft would be the assertion there aren't plenty of local fans who

lose the plot too.

In general terms, however, I'd submit there's more truth than Scouse

propaganda in the argument the more 'local' the fanbase is, the more

knowledgeable.

The evidence of Wednesday night is one of many.

The counter-argument to this will be someone from Plymouth telling me

they've been to every home game since 1983, spent thousands of pounds on

tickets and merchandise and have as much right to comment on Liverpool than

anyone.

That's true. They do have a right to comment. Some of us would rather not

listen, that's all.

Incidentally, I've always been astonished whenever people claiming to be a

Plymouth, or Yorkshire, or a 'Birmingham Red' have written in to have a go

back at suggestions they're more fickle.

As if someone working for the Liverpool ECHO should be bothered what they

think. If Merseysiders ever wrote to the Yorkshire Post, or Birmingham Mail

or Plymouth Herald about their negative views on Scousers, their reporters

would need more bin space.

I'm also prepared for the response that a journalist who gets a free

ticket has no right to criticise a supporter, no matter where he's from.

Well, he does if he happens to be from Liverpool, lives here, and was born

with the right to say or write anything he likes about what's going on in

his own town.

As far as I'm concerned, out-of-town fans are tourists in our city who,

for the most part, have made a choice to become Liverpool (or Everton)

supporters on the basis of who was the most successful side when they were

younger or who has the best looking players.

Those living in the Merseyside region made no such choice. Anfield or

Goodison citizenship was their birthright. A glorious inheritance which

others have tried to claim a slice from.

Naturally, I'm biased towards this city. I simply can't understand why any

football fan born or living anywhere within a close proximity wouldn't

support Liverpool, Everton, Tranmere, Chester, Wigan or Marine. Naturally,

I assume those whose family roots are planted in other cities would be more

likely to back their nearest sides.

When I hear a Glasgow accent, I think Rangers or Celtic. A Geordie must be

a Newcastle fan. A Brummie, Villa or Birmingham. Cornish is clearly United.

It's not just about football, surely it's also about identity?

Perhaps I'm guilty of misinterpretation, but in Liverpool and Everton's

case, supporting the team is an expression of civic pride as much as

football allegiance.

When the two clubs were dominating Europe in the 1980s, it was as much a

two-fingered gesture to those who'd kicked the city when it was down as it

was a statement of football dominance. To hear a Cockney telling you he's a

Red or a Blue. Well, it just doesn't sound right does it?

I fail to see how anyone south of Birmingham can truly empathise with us.

They just can't.

There will be those who aren't from Merseyside who may be deeply offended

by this. If the individuals I've described bare no resemblance to them,

they shouldn't be.

It's simply worth pointing out now and again that our clubs belong to us.

Everyone is free to join in, but a few have started to abuse their welcome.

The greats who've walked through the club's doors from Scotland, Wales,

France, Finland and everywhere else have been worshipped because they are

or were in tune with the values and conduct of the club. They've embraced

the culture as much as the scarf.

Many out-of-town fans accept that and follow suit. Others don't and have

actually started to make themselves self-appointed spokesmen for the

supporters in times of strife. They're far more un-Liverpool-like in their

ways.

As far as I'm concerned they're the main reason the atmosphere at Anfield

isn't what it used to be.

To quote the League of Gentlemen. Yes, Liverpool is a local club for local

people. The strangers, with their strange ways and strange habits who come

to do strange things would be wise to remember they're guests.

P.S. All letters of disgust can be directed to the Plymouth Herald.

[23 Carra Gold]

Bascombe is a bell and is also a wool enough said.

 

This all comes from the guy who when interviewed by lfc.tv in the climax of 100 ptstk said a certain mr gerrard was the greatest ever liverpool player again proving what a bell he really is. :wallbutt: :wallbutt:

[Lapskaus]

Are there any stats that show how many oot'ers attend home games? Would be an interesting read.

 

Bascombe:

I actually agree with one thing he says: I cant understand how anyone who live in a different part of England can support Liverpool and not the local club. It would be unimaginable for me to do the same in Norway. But who am I to speak right, im a Norgie.

[JER]

Are there any stats that show how many oot'ers attend home games? Would be an interesting read.

 

Bascombe:

I actually agree with one thing he says: I cant understand how anyone who live in a different part of England can support Liverpool and not the local club. It would be unimaginable for me to do the same in Norway. But who am I to speak right, im a Norgie.

 

 

TBH we moved around a lot when I was a kid so we never had a 'local' team. Now that team is Arsenal, and I don't feel any empithy for them at all, I was made up when they lost to Barcelona. I feel a red in every way, and I don't really give 2 fucks who some pudding basined local hack thinks I should support.

[Strontium]

The only explanation is that Bascombe's got the knock-back from loads of non-Scouse birds, and this is his sexual frustration manifesting itself in a rant at OOTers in general :laugh:

[cochcaer]

I find calls for insularity odd when we have a foreign manager/players and one of the biggest gripes aimed at the board is poor merchandising and promotion.