Israel - A Rant

[Poor Scouser T]

45 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Bet he did a shit forward roll when he got on the plane.

[Bjornebye]

Shameful on BBC news here. Fella is giving context about the daily reality for Palestinians and keeps getting interrupted. He's just had to say will you give me the same opportunity as you gave to your Israeli guest, will you please stop interrupting me. And there you go they've cut the interview off. FUCKING SCUM 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

13 minutes ago, Poor Scouser T said:

Bet he did a shit forward roll when he got on the plane.

Rory Delap was with him too. 
 

He’s now been seconded to the IDF to long throw missiles into Gaza.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

3 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Shameful on BBC news here. Fella is giving context about the daily reality for Palestinians and keeps getting interrupted. He's just had to say will you give me the same opportunity as you gave to your Israeli guest, will you please stop interrupting me. And there you go they've cut the interview off. FUCKING SCUM 

It’s probably because some zionists have been moaning that their footage was biased (otherwise known as it actually let Palestinian voices speak too) and the BBC have been scared off at the tag that would inevitably be attached to them if they didn’t play ball. 

[Kevin D]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/egypt-intelligence-official-says-israel-ignored-repeated-warnings-of-something-big/
 

Mounting questions over Israel’s massive intelligence failure to anticipate and prepare for a surprise Hamas assault were compounded Monday when an Egyptian intelligence official said that Jerusalem had ignored repeated warnings that the Gaza-based terror group was planning “something big” — which included an apparent direct notice from Cairo’s intelligence minister to the prime minister.

 

The Egyptian official said Egypt, which often serves as a mediator between Israel and Hamas, had spoken repeatedly with the Israelis about “something big,” without elaborating.

 

He said Israeli officials were focused on the West Bank and played down the threat from Gaza. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government is made up of supporters of West Bank settlers who have demanded a security crackdown there in the face of a rising tide of violence over the last 18 months.

 

We have warned them an explosion of the situation is coming, and very soon, and it would be big. But they underestimated such warnings,” the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he wasn’t authorized to discuss the content of sensitive intelligence discussions with the media, told The Associated Press.

 

In one of the said warnings, Egypt’s Intelligence Minister General Abbas Kamel personally called Netanyahu only 10 days before the massive attack that Gazans were likely to do “something unusual, a terrible operation,” according to the Ynet news site.

 

Unnamed Egyptian officials told the site they were shocked by Netanyahu’s indifference to the news and said the premier told the minister the military was “submerged” in troubles in the West Bank.
 

The Prime Minister’s Office denied the reports in a statement Monday, claiming they were a “complete lie.”

 

“No early message came from Egypt and the prime minister did not speak or meet with the intelligence chief since the establishment of the government — not indirectly or directly. This is completely fake news,” the statement read.

 

However, Israel was not only ignoring clear warnings from its allies.

 

For Palestinians in Gaza, Israel’s eyes are never very far away. Surveillance drones buzz constantly in the skies. The highly secured border is awash with security cameras and soldiers on guard. Intelligence agencies work sources and cyber capabilities to draw out information.

 

But Israel’s eyes appeared to have been closed in the lead-up to the surprise onslaught by the Hamas terror group, which broke through Israeli border barriers and sent hundreds of terrorists into Israel to carry out a brazen attack that killed over 700 people and wounded over 2,000.

 

Israel’s intelligence agencies have gained an aura of invincibility over the decades because of a string of achievements.

 

Israel has foiled plots seeded in the West Bank, allegedly hunted down Hamas operatives in Dubai and has been accused of killing Iranian nuclear scientists in the heart of Iran. Even when their efforts have stumbled, agencies like the Mossad, Shin Bet and military intelligence have maintained their mystique.

 

But the weekend’s assault, which caught Israel off guard on a major Jewish holiday, plunges that reputation into doubt and raises questions about the country’s readiness in the face of a weaker but determined foe. Over 48 hours after the start of the attack, Hamas terrorists continued to battle Israeli forces inside Israeli territory, and over 100 Israelis were in Hamas captivity in Gaza.

 

“This is a major failure,” said Yaakov Amidror, a former national security adviser to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. “This operation actually proves that the [intelligence] abilities in Gaza were no good.”

[Jairzinho]

1 hour ago, Nelly-Matip said:

Palestinians definitely need to abandon extremists like Hamas and adopt less violent measures to highlight their plight.
 

Maybe they could protest near the separation fence? 

 

Or try to set up an organisation that calls for the Boycott of Israeli goods or goods manufactured by companies who operate inside Israel or help to equip the IDF? 
 

Surely they won’t get shot and killed doing stuff like this? And the west might get on board with a boycott too?

 

If all that fails, they could just lie down and die and that would surely remove their problems? 

 

Quite.

[polymerpunkah]

And the response will be more innocent civilian deaths and more indiscriminate destruction, creating more desperation and more hopelessness.

 

An approach that has worked so well thus far.

[SasaS]

2 hours ago, Jairzinho said:

 

What do you think Palestinians would gain by having less extreme representation?

 

Personally, I think in terms of furthering the cause of Palestinians it hardly matters. They aren't powerful enough to decide their own destiny. They'll be kept in a cage by Israel for as long as other rich and powerful countries allow Israel to do so. 

 

Fewer Palestinians might die in the short term if they were represented by Fatah across the board politically, but it wouldn't make much structural difference. 

 

 

 

I'd say there are several issues or factors at play here.

 

If it makes no difference, then surely fewer people dying would be a good thing.

 

Secondly, it makes it harder for their supporters, if they are led and represented by an organization which sent its soldiers to kill as many civilians as they can in the streets, in their homes and this monstrosity at a music festival is hardly different to Paris shootings or 9/11 or similar atrocities. Any pro-Palestinian voice coming forward now without firstly condemning what was done by Hamas will be seen as seriously lacking in humanity, and rightly so.

 

Thirdly, it does all reflect on what goes on in Israel and will continue so. Otherwise you risk having a  position of they are all the same, nothing matters, nothing changes.

 

There is merit in being able to pack a punch, nobody gets much from the position of weakness, lack of influence and support. However, there are lines you should not cross.

 

 

[Poor Scouser T]

Israel saying this is their 9/11. Well Bush destroyed several nations off the back of that and gave birth to a new generation of fundamentalists killing 100's of thousands. Think we need to brace ourselves for more than a few tanks. This will be like nothing the region has seen in generations.

[Bjornebye]

15 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

I'd say there are several issues or factors at play here.

 

If it makes no difference, then surely fewer people dying would be a good thing.

 

Secondly, it makes it harder for their supporters, if they are led and represented by an organization which sent its soldiers to kill as many civilians as they can in the streets, in their homes and this monstrosity at a music festival is hardly different to Paris shootings or 9/11 or similar atrocities. Any pro-Palestinian voice coming forward now without firstly condemning what was done by Hamas will be seen as seriously lacking in humanity, and rightly so.

 

Thirdly, it does all reflect on what goes on in Israel and will continue so. Otherwise you risk having a  position of they are all the same, nothing matters, nothing changes.

 

There is merit in being able to pack a punch, nobody gets much from the position of weakness, lack of influence and support. However, there are lines you should not cross.

 

 

 

This goes the other way as well right? 

 

Any pro-Israeli voice coming forward now without firstly condemning what was done by the IDF will be seen as seriously lacking in humanity, and rightly so.

[ZonkoVille77]

https://www.thejournal.ie/meps-eu-commission-israel-flag-6190706-Oct2023/

[Poor Scouser T]

It is like a competition to see who can be the most Jew friendly. Not sure what drives it. Is it influence of Jewish lobbyists, interest groups? Fear of being labeled in anyway antisemitic, sympathy, holocaust guilt?

Whist I have sympathy for Israel and the people who have suffered, not just now but for centuries. It all feels false. It's like every game in the unmentionable now seems to have a minutes silence for someone no one has ever met. False theatrical grief. Downplays the issue. Deal with the shite not project flags because it makes you look good and sensitive.

[Jairzinho]

40 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

I'd say there are several issues or factors at play here.

 

If it makes no difference, then surely fewer people dying would be a good thing.

 

 

Yes, but it's not you living in cage with the prospect of continuing to do so. I think it won't make much difference, but then I don't have to live there. Were I Palestinian, I would almost certainly be more tempted by more extreme options. Rolling the dice.

 

Quote

Secondly, it makes it harder for their supporters, if they are led and represented by an organization which sent its soldiers to kill as many civilians as they can in the streets, in their homes and this monstrosity at a music festival is hardly different to Paris shootings or 9/11 or similar atrocities. Any pro-Palestinian voice coming forward now without firstly condemning what was done by Hamas will be seen as seriously lacking in humanity, and rightly so.

 

Why? As Stig said, supporters of Israel who shoot kids, bulldoze houses, and generally run a system of apartheid, don't have to. It's already incredibly difficult for supporters of Palestinian rights, I'm not convinced much changes in that respect.

 

Quote

Thirdly, it does all reflect on what goes on in Israel and will continue so. Otherwise you risk having a  position of they are all the same, nothing matters, nothing changes.

 

There is merit in being able to pack a punch, nobody gets much from the position of weakness, lack of influence and support. However, there are lines you should not cross.

 

Who chooses the lines? And why do they seemingly only apply to the oppressed, not the oppressor? 

 

All of the stuff you said might be relevant in another "dispute". One with more equal sides, one with more equal support from outside, etc. One where the (apologies) "narrative" in the media doesn't always skip a few chapters. Where politicians in developed nations are free to actually discuss it with some intellectual integrity.

 

With good reason, a lot of Palestinians will feel they have very little to lose. Their situation is, and has been for a very long time, fucking appalling. 

[Jairzinho]

1 minute ago, Poor Scouser T said:

It is like a competition to see who can be the most Jew friendly. Not sure what drives it. Is it influence of Jewish lobbyists, interest groups? Fear of being labeled in anyway antisemitic, sympathy, holocaust guilt?

Whist I have sympathy for Israel and the people who have suffered, not just now but for centuries. It all feels false. It's like every game in the unmentionable now seems to have a minutes silence for someone no one has ever met. False theatrical grief. Downplays the issue. Deal with the shite not project flags because it makes you look good and sensitive.

 

Israeli lobbyists, not Jewish ones. These cunts don't represent all Jews. 

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Sort of this has been posted before, but this is bang on the money. From the BBC earlier today.
 

https://x.com/tadhghickey/status/1711281023600754966?s=46&t=PwhHrO1toVvshRoo1wdiVA

 

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Why won’t tweets embed?

[Poor Scouser T]

5 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

 

Israeli lobbyists, not Jewish ones. These cunts don't represent all Jews. 

See that is part of my point. Have I upset someone by using wrong terminology? I thought Israel and Jews were one and the same. Tories don't represent me but they represent the British.

All groups have lobbyists, that was not a dig just a speculative observation.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

1 minute ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

Sort of this has been posted before, but this is bang on the money. From the BBC earlier today.
 

https://x.com/tadhghickey/status/1711281023600754966?s=46&t=PwhHrO1toVvshRoo1wdiVA

 

Think this may be the one Stig mentions earlier. 

[Jairzinho]

Channel 4 coverage very good this evening.

[Jhinge Machha]

3 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

Wow. Lying cunts

 

https://x.com/PTI_Central_/status/1711384083761139927?s=20

 

 

https://x.com/EdKrassen/status/1711402908384743617?s=20

 

 

internet was a mistake

[TheHowieLama]

6 minutes ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

Why won’t tweets embed?

 

Elon has a filter for certain users.

 

 

[Bjornebye]

7 minutes ago, Jhinge Machha said:

https://x.com/EdKrassen/status/1711402908384743617?s=20

 

 

internet was a mistake

 

I corrected it further down. 

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Give me my member embed rights, Elon you massive cunt. 

[SasaS]

46 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

 

This goes the other way as well right? 

 

Any pro-Israeli voice coming forward now without firstly condemning what was done by the IDF will be seen as seriously lacking in humanity, and rightly so.

 

14 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

 

Yes, but it's not you living in cage with the prospect of continuing to do so. I think it won't make much difference, but then I don't have to live there. Were I Palestinian, I would almost certainly be more tempted by more extreme options. Rolling the dice.

 

 

Why? As Stig said, supporters of Israel who shoot kids, bulldoze houses, and generally run a system of apartheid, don't have to. It's already incredibly difficult for supporters of Palestinian rights, I'm not convinced much changes in that respect.

 

 

Who chooses the lines? And why do they seemingly only apply to the oppressed, not the oppressor? 

 

All of the stuff you said might be relevant in another "dispute". One with more equal sides, one with more equal support from outside, etc. One where the (apologies) "narrative" in the media doesn't always skip a few chapters. Where politicians in developed nations are free to actually discuss it with some intellectual integrity.

 

With good reason, a lot of Palestinians will feel they have very little to lose. Their situation is, and has been for a very long time, fucking appalling. 

 

Lets just say that most people would be expected to have enough of a moral compass to know where the line is.

 

I can only try to explain with an analogy, in another thread, I am very pro-Ukrainian, for various reasons. It's a position where you have to put up with things, sometimes a lot of it. But if their government tomorrow sends several companies of their soldiers to various Russian cities, not as part of some unpredictable military operation, but after months of planning and quite deliberately, with orders to indiscriminately kill as many civilians as they can, where ever they find them, I might be having hard time saying, but this was not done in a vacuum or who were the initial invaders or any other morally corrupt whataboutery. I would not stop supporting their cause, but I think I would be expecting the removal of people who thought killing 260 people at a rave was OK to do.

 

On IDF, I don't see myself as a supporter of Israel, its policies and actions, and my point here was chiefly about Hamas and its further impact on Palestinian issue, locally and globally alike.

[Bjornebye]

2 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

 

Lets just say that most people would be expected to have enough of a moral compass to know where the line is.

 

I can only try to explain with an analogy, in another thread, I am very pro-Ukrainian, for various reasons. It's a position where you have to put up with things, sometimes a lot of it. But if their government tomorrow sends several companies of their soldiers to various Russian cities, not as part of some unpredictable military operation, but after months of planning and quite deliberately, with orders to indiscriminately kill as many civilians as they can, where ever they find them, I might be having hard time saying, but this was not done in a vacuum or who were the initial invaders or any other morally corrupt whataboutery. I would not stop supporting their cause, but I think I would be expecting the removal of people who thought killing 260 people at a rave was OK to do.

 

On IDF, I don't see myself as a supporter of Israel, its policies and actions, and my point here was chiefly about Hamas and its further impact on Palestinian issue, locally and globally alike.

 

As much as a few idiots on here like to imply, nobody on here supports Hamas and what they did the other night. People however can see the bigger picture and have some understanding why this retaliation happened. And lets call it what it is, it's retaliation not an unprovoked attack.