Homelessness

[Arniepie]

2 hours ago, Captain Willard said:

I’m not saying that. I’m saying it’s wrong to think everyone living in a tent is desperate for the alternative of  a minimum wage 35 hour week job in a Amazon warehouse, a council flat in Speke and a a DSF sofa on 5 years credit. We view this people as a ‘problem’ to be ‘solved’ through the prism of our conventional materialistic lifestyle. Maybe, just maybe the bloke in a tent outside Asda with no dead-end job to spend his life doing, no debts and no obligations is happier than you realise. 

Isn't trying to not freeze to death an obligation?

[Strontium]

42 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

When did they post that story?

 

About the same time as your post, funnily enough. 

[Arniepie]

10 minutes ago, Strontium said:

 

About the same time as your post, funnily enough. 

I mean, I  obviously googled rushi sunak,bbc homelessness,saw it on their news site and just posted it anyway hoping no one would notice

 

[Fugitive]

16 hours ago, Captain Willard said:

I think a A lot of people are opting out of conventional lifestyles of a partner, job, mortgage etc and thinking fuck it I’ll live in a tent and get off my nuts all day instead. Look at the rise in tent cities in places like LA, San Francisco etc occupied in part by a lot of opioid addicts. The ‘ problem’ is that we only look at these people through the prism of conventional life styles and try to shoehorn them back into a life of sobriety, working minimum wage,  paying the rent on a flat etc A lot of well meaning posts on here are about how to rehouse these people, which is code for get them back into the conventional box. Maybe we should just leave them alone. 

 

11 hours ago, Captain Willard said:

I’m not saying that. I’m saying it’s wrong to think everyone living in a tent is desperate for the alternative of  a minimum wage 35 hour week job in a Amazon warehouse, a council flat in Speke and a a DSF sofa on 5 years credit. We view this people as a ‘problem’ to be ‘solved’ through the prism of our conventional materialistic lifestyle. Maybe, just maybe the bloke in a tent outside Asda with no dead-end job to spend his life doing, no debts and no obligations is happier than you realise. 

This is by far one of the most Tory things that has ever been posted on here.

[Fugitive]

I’ve done a bit of work with these legends over the past 12 months and it what I’ve learnt and heard from people and fucking families on the streets makes an absolute mockery of what Tory Willard has posted. 
 

https://homelessprojectscotland.org

[Jairzinho]

Quote

Education Secretary Gillian Keegan said the most important thing was to support people to get off the streets.

 

You've spent 14 years enacting policies which have driven people on to them, you ridiculous, malignant, fucking cunt.

[Arniepie]

1 hour ago, Jairzinho said:

 

You've spent 14 years enacting policies which have driven people on to them, you ridiculous, malignant, fucking cunt.

They have gaslighting down to a tee

[Captain Willard]

1 hour ago, Fugitive said:

 

This is by far one of the most Tory things that has ever been posted on here.

There’s a big policy difference between making help available and forcing people into living conventional wage slave materialistic lifestyles. I’m obviously in favour of the former but some posters on here are talking about compulsion. People shouldn’t be forced into minimum wage jobs, flats etc. Not the most radical position really. 

[Section_31]

Because tory economic and social policies are so provably, visibly disastrous, the only people who still publicly back them are overachivers, sociopaths and imbeciles. 

 

The Hesseltines of this world have retreated to their Cotswald cottages to play with their trsinsets.

 

Even the Iain Dale types are having road to Damascus moments. Peter Oborne and Rory Stewart have discovered that they are in fact now, reasonably left wing.

 

The Tory approach to homelessness is childlike and ham fisted, just like their approach to everything else "let's drop taxes and not explain how", let's tell the Russians to just "stop it and go away". 

 

That's why their communications strategy is now to draw memes of Starmer looking like a Mr Whippy ice cream.

 

This is how Conservative politics ends.

 

[Jack the Sipper]

I've dealt with a lot of homeless people, both in my work and living in central London, and in my experience the vast majority are mentally ill, with any substance addictions being a symptom of that. Any lifestyle 'choice' they make to spend their lives getting obliterated, eating food from bins and sleeping outside shop doorways isn't the choice of someone who's in any real position to make those decisions. They need help, in the same way that any severely mentally ill person needs help. Criminalising them would be an exercise in futility.

[Creator Supreme]

9 minutes ago, Jack the Sipper said:

I've dealt with a lot of homeless people, both in my work and living in central London, and in my experience the vast majority are mentally ill, with any substance addictions being a symptom of that. Any lifestyle 'choice' they make to spend their lives getting obliterated, eating food from bins and sleeping outside shop doorways isn't the choice of someone who's in any real position to make those decisions. They need help, in the same way that any severely mentally ill person needs help. Criminalising them would be an exercise in futility.

Superb post.

[Section_31]

18 minutes ago, Jack the Sipper said:

I've dealt with a lot of homeless people, both in my work and living in central London, and in my experience the vast majority are mentally ill, with any substance addictions being a symptom of that. Any lifestyle 'choice' they make to spend their lives getting obliterated, eating food from bins and sleeping outside shop doorways isn't the choice of someone who's in any real position to make those decisions. They need help, in the same way that any severely mentally ill person needs help. Criminalising them would be an exercise in futility.

 

Was chatting to someone about this and he reckons at least some of it goes back to care in the community, the idea that there's people who simply can't look after themselves but we try and make them do so anyway. 

 

Maybe that worked better when councils had better funded support systems, but without them people just fall through the cracks. 

 

To a lesser extent it's probably why ex forces personnel end up on the streets,  they've spent so long having the simple things taken care of for them that they're dumped out into society with little idea of how to build or maintain a civilian life, coupled with any mental illness issues they've acquired during their service due to being exposed to stresses. 

[Bjornebye]

32 minutes ago, Jack the Sipper said:

I've dealt with a lot of homeless people, both in my work and living in central London, and in my experience the vast majority are mentally ill, with any substance addictions being a symptom of that. Any lifestyle 'choice' they make to spend their lives getting obliterated, eating food from bins and sleeping outside shop doorways isn't the choice of someone who's in any real position to make those decisions. They need help, in the same way that any severely mentally ill person needs help. Criminalising them would be an exercise in futility.

Going back to my earlier point. To get into that situation usually means you’re addicted to booze/drugs. Getting out of that addiction is the hardest part. Nobody chooses that lifestyle for the fun of it. Of course a few are left helpless but if I lived on the streets I’d drink myself into oblivion every day. 
 

 

 

[Arniepie]

17 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

 

Was chatting to someone about this and he reckons at least some of it goes back to care in the community, the idea that there's people who simply can't look after themselves but we try and make them do so anyway. 

 

Maybe that worked better when councils had better funded support systems, but without them people just fall through the cracks. 

 

To a lesser extent it's probably why ex forces personnel end up on the streets,  they've spent so long having the simple things taken care of for them that they're dumped out into society with little idea of how to build or maintain a civilian life, coupled with any mental illness issues they've acquired during their service due to being exposed to stresses. 

I remember an ex plod ringing a phone in and saying 75% of their shifts were spent dealing with people with mental health issues and they would often have to lock them up because there were no facilities available.   

 

[Arniepie]

On a wider issue homlessness suits tories. It gives the daily mail readers someone to look down on and it acts as a warning to working people not to get too uppity.

win/win.  

[Bruce Spanner]

5 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

I remember an ex plod ringing a phone in and saying 75% of their shifts were spent dealing with people with mental health issues and they would often have to lock them up because there were no facilities available.   

 

That’s why this is a real issue,

 

https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/police-attending-mental-health-calls
 

Police will no longer attend serious mental health calls, as they believe it should be social services and the NHS.

 

If only they could find a common theme on why they’re underfunded, demonised and severely lacking in joined up thinking and leadership? 

[A Red]

Like I said, put the severe in to compulsory care. Proper funded care. Give them a chance 

[Bjornebye]

Hard not to agree with A Red here. A lot of people need cold turkey otherwise they aren’t shaking the plight. 

[Gnasher]

37 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Hard not to agree with A Red here. A lot of people need cold turkey otherwise they aren’t shaking the plight. 

 

They get that if they go to prison. Which unfortunately many do. 

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, Section_31 said:

 

Was chatting to someone about this and he reckons at least some of it goes back to care in the community, the idea that there's people who simply can't look after themselves but we try and make them do so anyway. 

 

Maybe that worked better when councils had better funded support systems, but without them people just fall through the cracks. 

 

To a lesser extent it's probably why ex forces personnel end up on the streets,  they've spent so long having the simple things taken care of for them that they're dumped out into society with little idea of how to build or maintain a civilian life, coupled with any mental illness issues they've acquired during their service due to being exposed to stresses. 

 

Care in the community was a massive loss and has also contributed to the prisons being full. Difficult to say whether mental health is a major reason for those finding themselves  homeless or their condition has been caused because of finding themselves homeless. The percentage of those with mental health problems rises dramatically between those who are  homeless (40%) to those forced to sleep rough (80%). It goes without saying that the condition of those with mental health issues worsen dramatically the longer they are homeless to the condition of their homeless status, ie staying with friends, temporary accommodation to sleeping rough on the streets.

 

Some horrendous stats here...

 

https://www.crisis.org.uk/ending-homelessness/health-and-wellbeing/mental-health/#:~:text=45% of people experiencing homelessness,people who are homeless face.

 

 

 

As you say we lost a bridge to helping those people who are moving between prison and the streets and back again, whereas with a little help that wouldn't be the case. Even temporary accommodation is better than no accommodation and no help. Which many (not all) are experiencing when leaving hostels or prison. It's a vicious circle where hard drugs become a release. 

 

 

This government act like Btec accountants, they see the figures but they are incapable of looking beyond them. They know the price of everything and the value of nothing. 

[Edward.]

It might not be a lifestyle choice, but it has become some peoples lifestyles and incredibly difficult to turn around. I've met people who have got to the point where they can't be bothered to turn it around and life as crazy as it seems to us is much easy living "outside Asda". I have also met and worked with many more who have turned it around, only to find it too difficult and have ended up back on the streets and I have worked with people who after spending many years homeless are in accomodation of varying levels. Accomodation can also be pretty crap, and scary too. I think I have worked in pretty much 90% of the homeless hostels in the North East and very few if any I would want to spend the night in, often the safest place to be is outside Asda.

[Gnasher]

Privatisation of the probation service has proved to be another disaster.. 

[Arniepie]

that fact that homeless was stopped overnight during covid,sort of  suggests a flaw in the whole "choice" argument.

[A Red]

2 hours ago, Jack the Sipper said:

I've dealt with a lot of homeless people, both in my work and living in central London, and in my experience the vast majority are mentally ill, with any substance addictions being a symptom of that. Any lifestyle 'choice' they make to spend their lives getting obliterated, eating food from bins and sleeping outside shop doorways isn't the choice of someone who's in any real position to make those decisions. They need help, in the same way that any severely mentally ill person needs help. Criminalising them would be an exercise in futility.

The only way most of the severe cases can be helped is compulsory care, as you say criminalising is a complete waste of time and money. 

[Megadrive Man]

4 hours ago, Jairzinho said:

 

You've spent 14 years enacting policies which have driven people on to them, you ridiculous, malignant, fucking cunt.

 

Remember during Covid when they actually did manage to solve homelessness. Then as soon as the virus levels started to drop down they sent them straight back to the streets again!