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Bjornebye

Tokyo Olympics 2020 (21)

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14 minutes ago, Brownie said:

Greg Rutherford was just speaking about this on Eurosport. He had something similar in 2008 and struggled badly. He just said that his foot manufacturer came over to him after the final and said “just make sure that never happens again”.

 

Absolute state of that!
 

Assume SasaS works for Nike then.

That’s horrific.

 

Not being immune to self criticism myself my heart breaks thinking about the potential impact of words like that on somebody already experiencing severe mental turmoil

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10 minutes ago, Brownie said:

For me, what they have achieved previously doesn’t even come into it. If it’s someone who has never won before then i’d treat them in the same way as a champion. If someone is struggling, they need support.

Agreed, but if they have been the best in the world and have coped under pressure time and time again, on the biggest stage it rubbishes people suggesting mental health reasons being used an excuse as something obviously isn’t right with her, at this state of time.

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21 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

End of the day not many fans are really emotionally invested in women's gymnastics or women's Olympic tennis for that matter. It is unfortunate as surely there are some - but it would be interesting to see how, say, Tom Brady throwing an interception in the first quarter of a Super Bowl or Virgil getting nutmegged for an early gola in a CL final and then pulling out would be received.

It’s really really not what we’re talking about here, Howie

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11 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

We are going through an era of change when it comes to mental health and people being encouraged to speak out. For anyone who has suffered with mental health the hardest and most helpful part is holding your hands up and saying you're not in the right pace. Too right she should be applauded with her profile for holding her hands up and saying she is worried about it. What would you prefer? The Piers Morgan approach? 

I don't know what Pierce Morgan approach is.

 

What seems to be new is the seemingly magic phrase "mental health", which is at the moment treated as a cover-all and represents the moment at which all discussion is supposed to stop. And yet nobody knows what it actually means, are you diagnosed as ill, is it self-diagnosed, or is it just how you respond to pressure when you are no longer 100 percent. Like in the case of Osaka, I was being lectured on another thread that we don't know what triggers her mental health issues, it may be having to speak at a press conference, when I expressed bewilderment how someone can handle all the pressure and media spotlight of the tournament, but not a couple of routine pressers. It turns out, it's not just the press conferences, she has deeper confidence and possibly depression issues and is now skipping tournaments and getting beaten.

 

I will go to the unmentionable for the sake of illustration, we have players who are criticized and ridiculed for being a "sick note" and never available, all they have to do is "come out" as a person with mental health issues and they will completely reposition themselves within hours. As if physical injuries is something you can control. Or taking penalties.

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3 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Why? Because it is hypothetical?

We’re talking (well, I am) about people who are acknowledging mental health issues and the impact it has on a person’s ability to perform, the accompanying questioning of their own abilities and self worth and that individual’s anticipation and interpretation of the reaction of others. You honestly wouldn’t wish it on anyone

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14 minutes ago, Champ said:

We’re talking (well, I am) about people who are acknowledging mental health issues and the impact it has on a person’s ability to perform, the accompanying questioning of their own abilities and self worth and that individual’s anticipation and interpretation of the reaction of others. You honestly wouldn’t wish it on anyone

So am I, and I am pointing out that the part in bold could very well be different in a male team sport, in front of a stadium full of rabid fans.

Of course you wouldn't wish it on someone but Stig correctly pointed out - this probably would not have happened 10 years ago.

No one is minimizing her plight but is she under much more pressure now than Phelps was 10 years ago??

Or Louganis 30 years ago?? I guess that doesn't matter as in each case it depends on the person.

It is unfortunate as I imagine most folks don't know much about women's gymnastics beyond her and so the competition will not be what it could have been.

I hope she will be ok to participate in the individual events.

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Not just her ability to perform but her ability to perform safely.  People are really underestimating the danger of participating in gymnastics if you're not fully focussed or your mind is not in the right place. Biles herself said she is protecting her "mind and body", so to compare it to other sports that don't have the same jeopardy is very unfair.

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22 minutes ago, SasaS said:

I don't know what Pierce Morgan approach is.

 

What seems to be new is the seemingly magic phrase "mental health", which is at the moment treated as a cover-all and represents the moment at which all discussion is supposed to stop. And yet nobody knows what it actually means, are you diagnosed as ill, is it self-diagnosed, or is it just how you respond to pressure when you are no longer 100 percent. Like in the case of Osaka, I was being lectured on another thread that we don't know what triggers her mental health issues, it may be having to speak at a press conference, when I expressed bewilderment how someone can handle all the pressure and media spotlight of the tournament, but not a couple of routine pressers. It turns out, it's not just the press conferences, she has deeper confidence and possibly depression issues and is now skipping tournaments and getting beaten.

 

I will go to the unmentionable for the sake of illustration, we have players who are criticized and ridiculed for being a "sick note" and never available, all they have to do is "come out" as a person with mental health issues and they will completely reposition themselves within hours. As if physical injuries is something you can control. Or taking penalties.

"all they have to do is come out as a person with mental health issues" 

 

That (for me anyway) highlights your stance. You don't appear to really believe in poor mental health. 

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25 minutes ago, SasaS said:

What seems to be new is the seemingly magic phrase "mental health", which is at the moment treated as a cover-all and represents the moment at which all discussion is supposed to stop.


So having being placed into care with her three siblings because their mother wasn’t looking after them or feeding them properly, and subsequently being one of the 200 and odd athletes who were sexually abused by former USA Gymnastics team doctor Larry Nassar, you’re not prepared to entertain the idea that she may have mental health issues?

 

I’ve seen plenty of complainant statements from child victims of sexual abuse who are now adults, yet who can be turned into a quivering wreck by a smell, sound or sight they associate with the abuse they suffered.

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5 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

"all they have to do is come out as a person with mental health issues" 

 

That (for me anyway) highlights your stance. You don't appear to really believe in poor mental health. 

If you turn mental health into a universal get-out-of-jail card and implicitly not only accept some vague formulation but turn it almost into a society's fetish, wouldn't this create the situation in which mental health is completely trivialized and misappropriated as a term? 

 

 

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Gotta love armchair experts whose highest sporting achievement was coming 5th in the school sports day egg and spoon race expounding on the psychological conditions of the world's best athletes. 

 

Usually, it's young female athletes who are the subject of this sort of criticism. I wonder why.

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11 minutes ago, Anubis said:


So having being placed into care with her three siblings because their mother wasn’t looking after them or feeding them properly, and subsequently being one of the 200 and odd athletes who were sexually abused by former USA Gymnastics team doctor Larry Nassar, you’re not prepared to entertain the idea that she may have mental health issues?

 

I’ve seen plenty of complainant statements from child victims of sexual abuse who are now adults, yet who can be turned into a quivering wreck by a smell, sound or sight they associate with the abuse they suffered.

You should read her book - I don't think she sees herself as a victim in any way. At least when it was written she didn't. Not saying things couldn't have changed.

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6 minutes ago, SasaS said:

If you turn mental health into a universal get-out-of-jail card and implicitly not only accept some vague formulation but turn it almost into a society's fetish, wouldn't this create the situation in which mental health is completely trivialized and misappropriated as a term? 

 

 

I am sure there are some people who do trivialise it or use it as an excuse same as they have with other illnesses forever. 

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11 minutes ago, Anubis said:


So having being placed into care with her three siblings because their mother wasn’t looking after them or feeding them properly, and subsequently being one of the 200 and odd athletes who were sexually abused by former USA Gymnastics team doctor Larry Nassar, you’re not prepared to entertain the idea that she may have mental health issues?

 

I’ve seen plenty of complainant statements from child victims of sexual abuse who are now adults, yet who can be turned into a quivering wreck by a smell, sound or sight they associate with the abuse they suffered.

Where did I say I am not prepared to entertain the idea she may not be mentally healthy?

 

All I know about her is that she is some kind of superstar who has been around for ever and has won a pile of gold medals in the past. And was now quitting the tournament after a poor performance. My mild curiosity turned into attention after I noticed the phrase "prioritizing my mental health" was uttered and I immediately knew I would wake up tomorrow with her being hailed as a hero.

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27 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Where did I say I am not prepared to entertain the idea she may not be mentally healthy?

 

All I know about her is that she is some kind of superstar who has been around for ever and has won a pile of gold medals in the past. And was now quitting the tournament after a poor performance. My mild curiosity turned into attention after I noticed the phrase "prioritizing my mental health" was uttered and I immediately knew I would wake up tomorrow with her being hailed as a hero.

 

You seem frustrated because you can't see what's wrong with her and the reaction from others to why she's chosen not to carry on. Of course because we can't see it or have 100% proof we can never be 100% sure. That's something that always plays in the back of my head when I have to tell someone anxiety has prevented me from being able to do something. I'd rather deal with that though than give someone the proof by pushing myself until the colour starts draining from me or I'm going to the floor unable to move further or I pass out or something. If they don't believe me that's up to them, I'm often too busy feeling ill to add that to my head too much. Attempting to give proof is instantly risking something a lot worse taking place that could take a lot longer to recover from.

 

This is also why we're starting to focus more on mental health. The risks and the dangers are starting to become accepted more.

 

Yes there's always the chance that I could push through it and end up feeling ok when it starts, but the risk becomes a lot bigger the worse it gets and that's me doing normal stuff, not gymnastics where serious injury would be a lot more likely. Sometimes knowing when it's time to stop can be one of the most important things.

 

Someone who's won a "pile of gold medals in the past" though would in most cases attempt to turn things around if they don't really have mental health issues I'd think instead of faking it. Especially when they've trained years to be in the exact place they are in and could be hours away from another one of those medals.

 

I'm surprised that several people in sport have had this same problem recently though, I think it could be that the pandemic has pushed things over the edge and made a normally stressful situation that they could otherwise just about manage to deal with a lot worse to the point that they've had to stop.

 

What can be a difficult mental challenge to a healthy person can be like an invisible brick wall to someone with mental health problems. An outsider can't see it but they'd soon sense it if they were going through the same thing.

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Having been crucified on here for things I've said and done when I was at a low ebb, and been mocked for crying, I applaud this new forum attitude towards mental health and look forward to it being applied consistently (chortle chortle chortle).

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1 minute ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

Having been crucified on here for things I've said and done when I was at a low ebb, and been mocked for crying, I applaud this new forum attitude towards mental health and look forward to it being applied consistently (chortle chortle chortle).

Did people know you were at a low ebb when you said and did those things? 

 

When were you mocked for crying? 

 

Out of order if any of that is genuine. 

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10 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

Having been crucified on here for things I've said and done when I was at a low ebb, and been mocked for crying, I applaud this new forum attitude towards mental health and look forward to it being applied consistently (chortle chortle chortle).

Given there’s a long-standing depression thread and multiple threads on here and the MF where people ask for help and others offer advice you appear to be talking absolute bollocks, just for the sake of it. 

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1 hour ago, TheHowieLama said:

You should read her book - I don't think she sees herself as a victim in any way. At least when it was written she didn't. Not saying things couldn't have changed.

It’s really not about how a person sees or portrays themself either. Your life experiences may make you vulnerable to mental health problems but you/one doesn’t decide when you experience mental health difficulties in the same way as you don’t decide when you’re going to have physical illness

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17 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

Having been crucified on here for things I've said and done when I was at a low ebb, and been mocked for crying, I applaud this new forum attitude towards mental health and look forward to it being applied consistently (chortle chortle chortle).

And given your, shall we say, at times, ‘provocative’ persona on here I also remember you receiving enormous sympathy when you opened up about some personal issues of your own

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18 minutes ago, Juniper said:

Given there’s a long-standing depression thread and multiple threads on here and the MF where people ask for help and others offer advice you appear to be talking absolute bollocks, just for the sake of it. 

 

Yeah, that's pretty much what was said to me when I mentioned that a post on here reduced me to tears. Gotta love getting negged and called a liar when you've just opened up about being upset.

 

Regardless, it's not really the thread for a tangent like this.

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10 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

Yeah, that's pretty much what was said to me when I mentioned that a post on here reduced me to tears. Gotta love getting negged and called a liar when you've just opened up about being upset.

 

Regardless, it's not really the thread for a tangent like this.

Yep

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