Cancel Culture

[TheHowieLama]

Just now, Bjornebye said:

 

Cunt? 

 

The first thing any decent human thinks.

[Bjornebye]

Just now, TheHowieLama said:

 

The first thing any decent human thinks.

 

Yep. IMAGINE fuming about the N word being removed from a fictional spy novel. 

 

Fucking unbelievable. 

[TheHowieLama]

1 minute ago, Bjornebye said:

 

Yep. IMAGINE fuming about the N word being removed from a fictional spy novel. 

 

Fucking unbelievable. 

 

So, um, no one is fuming. Pointing out censorship is inherently dangerous is not fuming.

 

So - lets say you win on the internet today - we remove the N word from an obscure book in an instance where no one ( it's fiction) is actaully called that.

The flip side is the banning of complete books about slavery, about the gay rights movement etc.

 

You do get that yea?

[cloggypop]

8 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

a serious fucking word

 

Which one?

 

Hun

[TheHowieLama]

2 minutes ago, cloggypop said:

 

Hun

PM'd.

[Bjornebye]

2 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

So, um, no one is fuming. Pointing out censorship is inherently dangerous is not fuming.

 

So - lets say you win on the internet today - we remove the N word from an obscure book in an instance where no one ( it's fiction) is actaully called that.

The flip side is the banning of complete books about slavery, about the gay rights movement etc.

 

You do get that yea?

 

I'm not trying to win anything I'm simply pointing out that there is nothing wrong with removing the N word from a fictional spy novel and if you've got your knickers in a twist over it then you're a tosser. 

 

I haven't mentioned any other books, you've just completely made up a scenario. 

[TheHowieLama]

Just now, Bjornebye said:

you've just completely made up a scenario. 

 

Censorship is a made up scenario?

 

 

[Mook]

4 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

If you're annoyed at the N word being removed from a fictional spy novel then you need to have a serious fucking word with yourself. 

 

Where do you stop though, Stig. Should that word be removed from all forms of art through history?

 

I've no intention of ever reading any James Bond books so I'm certainly not annoyed about that specifically but I do care deeply about the protection of art from censorship. You should watch some Frank Zappa interviews from his fight against censorship in music in the 80s. The people on the other side of the debate from him were on the wrong side of history and so are the people wanting to edit these books.

 

Education & transparency are the answers, not shutting down parts of history people don't want others to see.

[Bjornebye]

Just now, Mook said:

 

Where do you stop though, Stig. Should that word be removed from all forms of art through history?

 

I've no intention of ever reading any James Bond books so I'm certainly not annoyed about that specifically but I do care deeply about the protection of art from censorship. You should watch some Frank Zappa interviews from his fight against censorship in music in the 80s. The people on the other side of the debate from him were on the wrong side of history and so are the people wanting to edit these books.

 

Education & transparency are the answers, not shutting down parts of history people don't want others to see.

 

I don't think books should be getting banned and we should have zero swearing and everything has to be changed into wine and roses, my argument here is that removing the N word from a fictional sly novel shouldn't have people moaning. Literally that is my only point. I'm not on about Frank Zappa or books on gays. 

[Bjornebye]

2 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

Censorship is a made up scenario?

 

 

 

This load of shit below you just invented to try and help you 'win the internet' today. It's an offensive, racist word. So fucking what if it gets removed from a fictional spy novel. It literally doesn't impact anyone by being removed. Just an excuse for the anti-woke brigade to get their shitty knickers in a twist. 

 

"So - lets say you win on the internet today - we remove the N word from an obscure book in an instance where no one ( it's fiction) is actaully called that.

The flip side is the banning of complete books about slavery, about the gay rights movement etc."

[TheHowieLama]

2 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

 

This load of shit below you just invented to try and help you 'win the internet' today. It's an offensive, racist word. So fucking what if it gets removed from a fictional spy novel. It literally doesn't impact anyone by being removed. Just an excuse for the anti-woke brigade to get their shitty knickers in a twist. 

 

"So - lets say you win on the internet today - we remove the N word from an obscure book in an instance where no one ( it's fiction) is actaully called that.

The flip side is the banning of complete books about slavery, about the gay rights movement etc."

 

Not 100% sure why this is necessary in this day and age but fuckin hell:

 

More than 1,600 books were banned in over 5,000 schools during the last school year, with most of the bans targeting titles related to the LGBTQ community or race and racism.

 

 

Of the 1,648 titles that were banned last year, the report found, 41% explicitly address LGBTQ themes or have protagonists or prominent secondary characters who are LGBTQ, and 40% include protagonists or secondary characters of color. 

More than one-fifth (21%) directly address issues of race and racism, and 22% include sexual content of varying kinds, including novels with some level of description of sexual experiences of teenagers; stories about teen pregnancy, sexual assault and abortion; and informational books about puberty, sex or relationships. 

 

[Pidge]

Seems like some of the changes were approved from some versions of the books even before Fleming passed away. Regardless, it seems like a corporate decision more than anything. James Bond is still relevant as a cultural icon and they want to update the language.

 

Rights holders looking to protect their revenue or expand it by making the books more accessible, not government censorship like the school bans.

[SasaS]

42 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

 

What harm is removing it doing to you? Why is it stupid? 

Because it is a cultural forgery. The books have been written and published decades ago and sold probably in millions, they exist as part of the cultural heritage, whatever you may think of them and form part of a literary canon. If the author used for the narrator to describe black people, either he or his narrator are racist and By removing the word you will retroactively make him not racist, which is a forgery. Or if the word was liberally used at the time and wasn't considered particularly racist, then the readers should be able to deal with it. The offense is always in the intent and context, not in the letters or sounds.

 

And it's not that the "problems" with Bond novels from today's point of view end there anyway, so you either leave them as they were written, or read (make money from) something else. You cannot falsify history of literature, ideas and people's attitudes and say, what is the harm in that?

[Pidge]

All fair points.

[TheHowieLama]

The woman's name was Pussy Galore.

[Bjornebye]

4 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Because it is a cultural forgery. The books have been written and published decades ago and sold probably in millions, they exist as part of the cultural heritage, whatever you may think of them and form part of a literary canon. If the author used for the narrator to describe black people, either he or his narrator are racist and By removing the word you will retroactively make him not racist, which is a forgery. Or if the word was liberally used at the time and wasn't considered particularly racist, then the readers should be able to deal with it. The offense is always in the intent and context, not in the letters or sounds.

 

And it's not that the "problems" with Bond novels from today's point of view end there anyway, so you either leave them as they were written, or read (make money from) something else. You cannot falsify history of literature, ideas and people's attitudes and say, what is the harm in that?

I get that mate I really do but ….. it is seen as an offensive racist term this day in age so simply removing it isn’t stupid at all. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, SasaS said:

 

And what harm is it doing if it isn't removed? It's representative of the person who wrote the spy novel or his characters. And it is not the only thing that is being removed, apparently.

I think the harm it would be doing is suppressing sales. If they're looking to relaunch the books they probably want a response other than "Fuck me, these are horrible!"

[TheHowieLama]

10 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

 it is seen as an offensive racist term this day in age 

 

Do you feel Pussy Galore is a wee bit sexist and offensive in this day and age?

[Bjornebye]

7 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

Do you feel Pussy Galore is a wee bit sexist and offensive in this day and age?

No. You’re doing it again. 

[Mook]

33 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

 

I don't think books should be getting banned and we should have zero swearing and everything has to be changed into wine and roses, my argument here is that removing the N word from a fictional sly novel shouldn't have people moaning. Literally that is my only point. I'm not on about Frank Zappa or books on gays. 

 

It's all part of the same thing though, re-writing history & censoring art.

 

The 'people moaning' about it have extremely good reason to when you look at the wider picture.

[Bjornebye]

Just now, Mook said:

 

It's all part of the same thing though, re-writing history & censoring art.

 

The 'people moaning' about it have extremely good reason to when you look at the wider picture.

That’s looking at the wider picture. I’m on about the unnecessary use of the N word. It doesn’t bother me one bit that they are removing it. If it bothers to then that’s for you. 

[Mook]

Just now, Bjornebye said:

That’s looking at the wider picture. I’m on about the unnecessary use of the N word. It doesn’t bother me one bit that they are removing it. If it bothers to then that’s for you. 

 

How can it possibly be 'unnecessary' when it is a work of art?

[stringvest]

 

[TheHowieLama]

If it was unnecessary the author would not have used it. Most writers are particular about words.

 

Would it bother you if it was left in? Would you have ever noticed? Or, had you noticed - it has been in print for 50 odd years.

 

 

[Bjornebye]

1 minute ago, Mook said:

 

How can it possibly be 'unnecessary' when it is a work of art?

Ok Mook you be outraged.