Keir Starmer

[Jairzinho]

2 hours ago, Section_31 said:

I find it bizarre how someone would compare polls from two different eras, and what are effectively two different planets. Is the insinuation that labour would be better off under corbyn even though he actually lost an election (not a poll, an election).

 

Or if we're to take the idea to a logical conclusion, couldn't we compare Corbyn's election performances to bogeyman Blair's? 

It's the mad the difference in dynamics in elections now with SNP and the Lib Dems.

 

If you compare the 2005 and 2017 elections, for example. 

 

2005 - Labour 9.5m votes. 35% of the vote. Massive majority.

2017 - Labour 13m votes. 40% of the vote. 55 seats fewer than the Tories.

 

The Lib Dems got almost 6m votes in 2005. They got about 2m under the celebrity homephobe in 2017.

 

 

Brexit is done, so the Tories will hoover up UKIP/Brexit Party votes. The Lib Dems who used to nick seats off the Tories in rural areas are now completely invisible. In fact, sadly, a lot of those rural seats now have increased Labour vote share, but take from the Lib Dems ensuring decent sized Tory majorities. And of course Scotland has gone. To the SNP now, and probably permanently in a few years.

 

 

Fuck knows what Labour can do. They tried to fence sit on Brexit and ended up fucking off both sides. Seems they're doing the same on other things now. White van man doesn't believe that they're TRUE POTATRIOTS, and many people on the left have seen this film before. Neither side likes what Labour appears to be representing. It's depressing.

[The Guest]

12 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

It's the mad the difference in dynamics in elections now with SNP and the Lib Dems.

 

If you compare the 2005 and 2017 elections, for example. 

 

2005 - Labour 9.5m votes. 35% of the vote. Massive majority.

2017 - Labour 13m votes. 40% of the vote. 55 seats fewer than the Tories.

 

The Lib Dems got almost 6m votes in 2005. They got about 2m under the celebrity homephobe in 2017.

 

 

Brexit is done, so the Tories will hoover up UKIP/Brexit Party votes. The Lib Dems who used to nick seats off the Tories in rural areas are now completely invisible. In fact, sadly, a lot of those rural seats now have increased Labour vote share, but take from the Lib Dems ensuring decent sized Tory majorities. And of course Scotland has gone. To the SNP now, and probably permanently in a few years.

 

 

Fuck knows what Labour can do. They tried to fence sit on Brexit and ended up fucking off both sides. Seems they're doing the same on other things now. White van man doesn't believe that they're TRUE POTATRIOTS, and many people on the left have seen this film before. Neither side likes what Labour appears to be representing. It's depressing.

I think the automatic assumption that UKIP voters automatically vote Tory is a lazy one.  There’s plenty of left wing people that wanted out of Europe.  After the referendum when Labour originally said they would respect the result and leave the EU we seen Labour getting a lot of those voters on an old school socialist manifesto.  When Labour decided to go with a 2nd referendum in the next general election it tanked and lost a load of those leave voting constituencies.

 

One thing that’s undeniable in my opinion is that modern society is fucking sick to the back teeth of neo liberalism.

 

Are the people up Starmers arse on here still pretending like he’s left wing or are we retconning that ever happened now?  They were hiding behind those obviously bullshit pledges he never had any intention of sticking to but now they’re gone what’s the argument against the whole agenda from the right wing element of the party doing anything they could to remove the left and stopping them having any say whatsoever.  The right never gave a shit about the EU.  The whole thing was another way to get Corbyn and the left out of power if the party forever.  They knew backing a second ref would lose the election and put Brexit completely in the hands of the tories but that didn’t matter.  They know it’s the reason they lost the election so badly and not Corbyn which is why they’re completely silent on it now.

 

They went overboard in the attacks and it’s pretty much killed the party in the long term but who gives a shit eh as long as they got Corbyn out.  Can’t be taxing rich people and corporations more money and spending it on public services can we.

 

The only way Labour can beat the tories is by making the conversation about people vs establishment.  The average person is being fucked by the elite every day.  They need to be saying this every single day.  When the govt give massive public money contracts to their mates or restrict money to the NHS it impacts everyone.  It doesn’t matter if you believe in more or less tax or transgender pro nouns or not etc the main point needs to be the country is turning into a mess because the government is corrupt.  The problem for Labour is that it’s full of unaccountable, corrupt establishment types itself with its leader being the fucking poster boy for it.  It’s too late now because nobody with any actual say so will allow the members to make the Labour leaders accountable so we are fucked.  If you’re one of those people that jumped on the anti democratic, smearing, anti corbyn and anti left bandwagon then you’re to blame.  Just because you didn’t want the taxes going up you were happy for them to whitewash any chance of actual democracy and accountability in this country and this is what we are left with for the foreseeable future.  Gang of fucking stupid cunts.

[Jairzinho]

Yeah, I only meant that The Tories will hoover up the UKIP vote now. They're not coming back to Starmer's Labour.

[Bjornebye]

14 minutes ago, The Guest said:

The only way Labour can beat the tories is by making the conversation about people vs establishment.  

The only possible way is if the media was unbiased and reported on things like PMQs. Do they? Do they fuck. "Hancocks just raped a nun" MEDIA - "Oh look Corbyn immigrants land on Kent beach" 

[The Guest]

12 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

The only possible way is if the media was unbiased and reported on things like PMQs. Do they? Do they fuck. "Hancocks just raped a nun" MEDIA - "Oh look Corbyn immigrants land on Kent beach" 

The media went after Corbyn from day one and Labour came close to winning.  If the whole party was behind him and singing from the same socialist hymn sheet they likely would have won.  People are on to the biased press you just need to tap into it.  It’s all irrelevant now though anyway because we won’t see another left wing Labour leader in our lifetime.

[Bjornebye]

29 minutes ago, The Guest said:

The media went after Corbyn from day one and Labour came close to winning.  If the whole party was behind him and singing from the same socialist hymn sheet they likely would have won.  People are on to the biased press you just need to tap into it.  It’s all irrelevant now though anyway because we won’t see another left wing Labour leader in our lifetime.

Are you speaking to us from another realm? 

[Rushies tash]

3 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Are you speaking to us from another realm? 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/corbyn-election-results-votes-away-prime-minister-theresa-may-hung-parliament-a7782581.html

[Bjornebye]

3 minutes ago, Rushies tash said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/corbyn-election-results-votes-away-prime-minister-theresa-may-hung-parliament-a7782581.html

Do you think for one second Corbyn was ever going to be allowed to be PM? 

[Rushies tash]

1 hour ago, Bjornebye said:

Do you think for one second Corbyn was ever going to be allowed to be PM? 

Nope.

[Bjornebye]

4 minutes ago, Rushies tash said:

Nope.

Exactly. 

[Rushies tash]

I think that's what he was referring to though -  Corbyn doing far better than expected in 2017. All the shit that's followed has been to prevent that ever happening again.

[Gnasher]

Shadow health secretary Jonathan Ashworth on Marr. Fucking dreadful.

[Bobby Hundreds]

Whatever happened to the green party or the lib dems feels like we only ever see the tories and occasionally Labour MPs on TV now.

 

It could be ive stopped watching though. Possibly.

[Gnasher]

"Nurses dont want to go on strike"  thanks for that enlightening observation Jon.

 

 

[Brownie]

At this point i’ll definitely be voting Green in upcoming elections.

[Scooby Dudek]

2 hours ago, Gnasher said:

"Nurses dont want to go on strike"  thanks for that enlightening observation Jon.

 

 

I agree with you, he is and always has been terrible. However, it goes with the narrative that probably goes back to the miners and was helpfully pushed along by the London Underground strikes, that basically anyone going on strike is some sort of hard left, marxist anti Britain enemy within. Same with the on going attacks on teaching unions. 

 

Unfortunately, as Labour have not strongly opposed these terrible slanders, going back again to Kinnock not supporting the miners. The narrative is supporting strikes is undemocratic because strikers are using strong arm tactics against the population they are meant to serve. 

 

Hunt can happily call out Junior doctors for going on strike, when Midwives went on strike for the first time in over 100 years, obviously they were all militant midwives who hated babies.

 

Labour need to stop sitting on the fence, Corbyn and McDonald came out pretty early in their leadership and said they would always support workers going on strike, this obviously did not go down well both inside and outside the party. 

 

Supporting business, is right and correct and great for the economy, top priority of all businesses. 

Supporting workers is anti business and hence bad for the country. 

[Bruce Spanner]

18 minutes ago, Scooby Dudek said:

I agree with you, he is and always has been terrible. However, it goes with the narrative that probably goes back to the miners and was helpfully pushed along by the London Underground strikes, that basically anyone going on strike is some sort of hard left, marxist anti Britain enemy within. Same with the on going attacks on teaching unions. 

 

Unfortunately, as Labour have not strongly opposed these terrible slanders, going back again to Kinnock not supporting the miners. The narrative is supporting strikes is undemocratic because strikers are using strong arm tactics against the population they are meant to serve. 

 

Hunt can happily call out Junior doctors for going on strike, when Midwives went on strike for the first time in over 100 years, obviously they were all militant midwives who hated babies.

 

Labour need to stop sitting on the fence, Corbyn and McDonald came out pretty early in their leadership and said they would always support workers going on strike, this obviously did not go down well both inside and outside the party. 

 

Supporting business, is right and correct and great for the economy, top priority of all businesses. 

Supporting workers is anti business and hence bad for the country. 

 

Fully support this and this should always be the case as they are, or should be, the protection from the excesses of greed and capitalism, but it's such an easy line to muddy as all the Tories have to say is 'Labour supporting the public sector, where's their support for the private' and even though this is disingenuous, and patently false, divide and conquer rhetoric it'll cut through as Mr & Mrs Fucknuts of somewhere shite will look at their own lot and believe the public sector are being prioritised, not that they are being exploited.

 

I have no answers because at every turn 'the right' will use false equivalence arguments which will detract and distract from the real argument.

 

 

[Bobby Hundreds]

The right to strike is an absolute basic human right. People who call for it to be banned yet somehow they are pro small government and freedom can go fuck themselves.

 

Remember when rail workers were on strike and fucking yuppies where hurling abuse at them. A reporter said to Bob Crow this damages industries worth billions and Bob Crow just said I'm glad you highlighted just how important our members are.

[Scooby Dudek]

Same when teachers go on strike. Don't talk about pay and conditions or having to ask parents to pay for text books and paper. Don't talk about the number of teachers leaving. No, interview parents outside who see the school as child minders and are outraged by the inconvenience caused to them. It is implied how easy it is to strike but never told that strikers actually don't get paid when they strike.

 

As I said narrative is were the right will go, not issues. I imagine it will a difficult sell to condemn the nurses after the last year, which is why IMO the union's have immediately gone for a "strike fund", despite not even balloting yet. The mere mention will put pressure on the government which is another reason that Labour should jump right behind it.

[Anubis]

 

“Let them eat claps.”

[A Red]

18 hours ago, Scooby Dudek said:

I agree with you, he is and always has been terrible. However, it goes with the narrative that probably goes back to the miners and was helpfully pushed along by the London Underground strikes, that basically anyone going on strike is some sort of hard left, marxist anti Britain enemy within. Same with the on going attacks on teaching unions. 

 

Unfortunately, as Labour have not strongly opposed these terrible slanders, going back again to Kinnock not supporting the miners. The narrative is supporting strikes is undemocratic because strikers are using strong arm tactics against the population they are meant to serve. 

 

Hunt can happily call out Junior doctors for going on strike, when Midwives went on strike for the first time in over 100 years, obviously they were all militant midwives who hated babies.

 

Labour need to stop sitting on the fence, Corbyn and McDonald came out pretty early in their leadership and said they would always support workers going on strike, this obviously did not go down well both inside and outside the party. 

 

Supporting business, is right and correct and great for the economy, top priority of all businesses. 

Supporting workers is anti business and hence bad for the country. 

I'm pro union and believe that all workers should have the right to go on strike but it has to be a democratic process. Kinnock was right not to support the NUM because there was no vote.

[Scooby Dudek]

6 minutes ago, A Red said:

I'm pro union and believe that all workers should have the right to go on strike but it has to be a democratic process. Kinnock was right not to support the NUM because there was no vote.

Yeah, ok.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

3 minutes ago, Scooby Dudek said:

Yeah, ok.

They didn't have a national ballot. Which meant it was illegal and was ruled as such later on in the year.

[Scooby Dudek]

2 minutes ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

They didn't have a national ballot. Which meant it was illegal and was ruled as such later on in the year.

 

6 minutes ago, Scooby Dudek said:

Yeah, ok.

 

[Skidfingers McGonical]

1 minute ago, Scooby Dudek said:

 

 

Mardy arse!