Keir Starmer

[sir roger]

Reports today of a 7%+ economy bounce this year , so it may be a bumpy ride.

 

Can't believe Lloyd Russell Moyle has pinched my Gordon Brittas gag for Starmer.

[Bjornebye]

46 minutes ago, sir roger said:

If Starmer had simply delivered what he promised in his party election manifesto and shown some fight against the Tories we would have made a better show last night ,100%.

I don't know. Brexit along with the widely (falsely) held perceptions of a Corbynite Labour is still fresh in the minds of many voters regardless of Tory behaviour. Not sure anyone stood a chance yet. I say yet because I think by the time the next GE comes around it might dawn on the masses that actually they were bullshitted too, Brexit will be a disaster and hopefully a proper full enquiry into Covid handling drills home how bad the tories are. I'm confident Starmer has a long game plan and is keeping a lot up his sleeve. Factor in the likes of the BBC/Daily Mail and their rhetoric and it's an almost impossible battle to have much success for any leader of any party right now. 

[Jennings]

56 minutes ago, Carvalho Diablo said:

Grasp the nettle, lance the boil, split the party and do it now whilst they're at an all time low with little to lose.

 

...

Serious question - won't this just split the former labour votes, meaning never ending Tory success?

[Numero Veinticinco]

Just now, Jennings said:

Serious question - won't this just split the former labour votes, meaning never ending Tory success?

All part of Adolf Carvalho's plan. 

[Gnasher]

The gauntlet has been thrown,

 

 

[Manny]

5 minutes ago, Chairman Meow said:

 

 

People in fishing boat not willing to fight heavily armed ships. That's the equivalent of calling the average member of the public a pussy for not wanting to fight Connor McGregor. 

 

 

I said it before the leave vote and I've been saying it ever since, I am as certain as certain can be that the line for the next 10 years or so at least will be some kind of "it's a legacy of being in the EU" soundbite bullshit for every failing.

 

The Tory party have never and will never accept responsibility for anything. For fucks sake they are still blaming Labour for everything as it is.

 

Plus they now have the added get out of how they've had to help everyone out because of Covid. 

 

We're going to be stuck with these fuckers for years. 

Aye. I'm not saying Starmer is perfect, or that Labour's campaign was as good as it could have been in Hartlepool. But I've never been convinced by the whole "give people an alternative" argument. There are plenty of candidates and parties to vote for, and also the option of not turning up at all (and low turnout still gives me hope that the country is less "pro-Tory" than I maybe fear) but if you've watched a government fiddle while hundreds of thousands have died of a preventable disease, seen their cabinet use a historic pandemic to stick their hands in the till to enrich themselves and their mates, and a PM basically lie and cheat to the point where he's selling influence in return for cash for someone to wipe his baby's arse, and you still are happy to turn up to a polling booth and give them more power then what the fuck is the opposition supposed to do?

 

Those reasons alone should stop people from voting Tory, and choosing one - any - of the other candidates or staying at home, but people still go and vote for them. Sometimes it's not about "alternatives" - it's about simple refusal to endorse a party, and for some reason the Tories are fucking teflon thesedays.

 

I fear the Tories are now firmly entrenched in three new political classes:

• Traditional Tories - countryside folks, the aristocracy, the upper middle classes, the senior management class, that kind of thing.
• Persimmon/Qashqai Tories - live near the 'left behind' towns but have a reasonably strong income relative to the local area which gives them good purchasing power and access to credit, allowing them a pretty comfortable suburban lifestyle. I read a good article in the Economist about this kind of voter - they're in Red Wall areas, their parents probably voted Labour all their lives but the status quo suits them so there's no reason for them to vote for change.
• Flag Shagging Tories - older, live in the left behind towns, fear any kind of progressive tendencies and are quite happy for a party to join them in blaming all their woes on other people. They believe all the propaganda that Labour are 'woke' and will stick a black transgender muslim in your shed, and probably were massively erect at the idea that the brave Royal Navy won a naval engagement with some French fishing boats yesterday.

Labour has no chance with the first one or the last one, and unfortunately things will have to get much worse for them to have any luck with the middle one. They're left with the cities, where they still do well, but unforuntately these don't add up into enough seats to counteract the above. Like it or not, the Tories are now the party of the countryside and the small town, the SNP are the party of Scotland and Labour are the party of the English cities - and our bullshit political system means that the biggest one of those wins rather than one of them actually having to win an overall majority.

 

There's so much wrong with attitudes, systems and the outside world (as well as ridiculous infighting within the party) that I've got no fucking idea where Labour even start.

[Manny]

Oh and those French fishing boats were always going to go home at the end of the day, it was a protest not a fucking invasion. The Navy weren't even slightly needed but they were sent there as a tub thumping exercise by this cunt government. It's thoroughly depressing how few people can't see through such an obvious fucking piss take.

[Gnasher]

6 minutes ago, Jennings said:

Serious question - won't this just split the former labour votes, meaning never ending Tory success?

Ah but you seemed to have missed the point, the people's party of judea must destroy the judean peoples party,  or if you are fond of the judeans peoples party you must beat to death the peoples party of judea. Don't worry about those lions.

[Gnasher]

1 minute ago, Manny said:

Oh and those French fishing boats were always going to go home at the end of the day, it was a protest not a fucking invasion. The Navy weren't even slightly needed but they were sent there as a tub thumping exercise by this cunt government. It's thoroughly depressing how few people can't see through such an obvious fucking piss take.

Bit gutted to be honest. I was looking forward to the occupation, good quality cheese and beautifully baked baguettes are scarce by me.

[Carvalho Diablo]

11 minutes ago, Jennings said:

Serious question - won't this just split the former labour votes, meaning never ending Tory success?

The current arrangement clearly hasn't worked though, trounced at the GE and humiliated last night.

 

the party is neither this nor that and were already knacker deep into an eon of Tory success.

[Carvalho Diablo]

16 minutes ago, Numero said:

All part of Adolf Carvalho's plan. 

I'm offended by that.

[Manny]

Just now, Gnasher said:

Bit gutted to be honest. I was looking forward to the occupation, good quality cheese and beautifully baked baguettes are scarce by me.

I for one welcome our new pastry and wine supplying overlords.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

BREAKING: Starmer reacts to Hartlepool by-election news... 

[Numero Veinticinco]

19 minutes ago, Carvalho Diablo said:

I'm offended by that.

Sorry, Mein Fuhrer. 

[Strontium]

31 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

The gauntlet has been thrown,

 

 

 

Yeah, people are definitely voting Tory because Labour isn't left-wing enough, makes perfect sense. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

2 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

Yeah, people are definitely voting Tory because Labour isn't left-wing enough, makes perfect sense. 

It's the classic 'they didn't do well because they're not [insert favoured political position] enough' approach that absolutely everybody takes when somebody doesn't do well. 

[Bjornebye]

Andy Burnham trending on twitter and a lot of noise for him to take over Labour. 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Labour will lurch to the right now. And we'll probably get even more of the dated tactic of "Look at Kier, he loves a pint" photos. I haven't looked at the figures, but was Hartlepool really a case of more people defecting and deciding to vote for the Tories over Labour or just people not being inspired enough to vote for Labour? The reaction will probably be to win back the Brexit voting once Labour voters, rather than to try and encourage back the vote of the more left leaning members of the electorate who had previously voted Labour but now felt abandoned by the party. If so, that seems a risky tactic. Brexit is done. I fear that Labour will never regain those kind of voters. Concentrate on the abandoned voters and the younger members of the electorate who will be eligible to vote by the time of the next general election. 

[Moo]

53 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

I'm confident Starmer has a long game plan and is keeping a lot up his sleeve. 

Fecking hell, what makes you even think that never mind be confident of it?

[Ranxerox]

From Guardian's coverage 

 

"Labour’s candidate Williams rushed out of the election count by the back door and was whisked off in a red Ford Fiesta."

 

LOL jeezus what a strange observation.

[Bjornebye]

5 minutes ago, Moo said:

Fecking hell, what makes you even think that never mind be confident of it?

Blind optimism? 

[Gnasher]

18 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

Yeah, people are definitely voting Tory because Labour isn't left-wing enough, makes perfect sense. 

From someone who's middle ground party has gone from polling thousand upon thousands of votes in Hartlepool to 368 last night. 

 

I'm sure if Starmer wheels out Ruth Smeeth a bit more and adopts the policies and position of Change UK the voters in the north will come flocking back. 

[sir roger]

50 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

I don't know. Brexit along with the widely (falsely) held perceptions of a Corbynite Labour is still fresh in the minds of many voters regardless of Tory behaviour. Not sure anyone stood a chance yet. I say yet because I think by the time the next GE comes around it might dawn on the masses that actually they were bullshitted too, Brexit will be a disaster and hopefully a proper full enquiry into Covid handling drills home how bad the tories are. I'm confident Starmer has a long game plan and is keeping a lot up his sleeve. Factor in the likes of the BBC/Daily Mail and their rhetoric and it's an almost impossible battle to have much success for any leader of any party right now. 

I'm sorry that's rubbish , Stig. So you  ( and Mandelson surprisingly ) are saying that Corbyn was so toxic that his candidate got 15k votes last time but over a year on from him going we get 9k votes because of 'previous perceptions' of him.

 

All of the Tory bounce stuff you mention is valid in a wider context , but the problem with that view is that the Tories didn't actually do that well , and only put on another 3700 votes when there were 10600 unhoused racists to go for from last time.If Starmer had simply retained Corbyn era vote and by not being Corbyn had added to it as we were promised and patronised by all and sundry , we would have won the seat.

 

 

[Bjornebye]

5 minutes ago, sir roger said:

I'm sorry that's rubbish , Stig. So you  ( and Mandelson surprisingly ) are saying that Corbyn was so toxic that his candidate got 15k votes last time but over a year on from him going we get 9k votes because of 'previous perceptions' of him.

 

All of the Tory bounce stuff you mention is valid in a wider context , but the problem with that view is that the Tories didn't actually do that well , and only put on another 3700 votes when there were 10600 unhoused racists to go for from last time.If Starmer had simply retained Corbyn era vote and by not being Corbyn had added to it as we were promised and patronised by all and sundry , we would have won the seat.

 

 

I'm not solely on about Hartlepool and no it's not rubbish mate. 

[Moo]

12 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Blind optimism? 

Fair enough.

 

Another optimistic spin I like to tell myself is that Starmer is not the future of the Labour party and was never the right choice, however it's probably a good thing that the present insurmountable popularity of Boris Johnson is happening on Starmer's watch.  I've no doubt someone else would have done better than Starmer so Johnson's popularity does not excuse him totally; but imagine if Labour had chosen someone very good, someone popular, clear, with integrity, a good speaker with leadership qualities, and still been trounced.  That would feel even worse than this, the feeling of helplessness would be even more off the scale.