Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[mattyq]

31 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

BREAKING: John McDonnell says Labour’s compromise position on Brexit “has not worked” and “we need to express a view which is clearly...remain”.

Fortunately McDonnell gets it

[Captain Howdy]

Apparently he’s fallen out with Corbyn, don’t know how true it is like

[Guest Pistonbroke]

11 minutes ago, Captain Howdy said:

Apparently he’s fallen out with Corbyn, don’t know how true it is like

It was reported last year that things have deteriorated in their relationship. Although McDonnell told the Wall street journal in May that Corbyn and himself are both remainers at heart. 

[Pureblood]

11 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Not a fan of dictatorships, myself.

Me neither and that's not what I'm arguing for (which I think you know).

 

I'm not a fan of referendums either, though.

[aRdja]

1 hour ago, Captain Howdy said:

Apparently he’s fallen out with Corbyn, don’t know how true it is like

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Captain Howdy said:

Apparently he’s fallen out with Corbyn, don’t know how true it is like

Myths and rubbish.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48899814

 

[Red Phoenix]

8 hours ago, Boss said:

It's amazing what so called democrats will do to overturn the result of a democratic vote. Give them more democracy they say. Well democracy only works if you're willing to enact the result of the vote. If one side wins and then you give them another vote, and another, because you don't like the answer, then that's not a democracy, that's a dictatorship. 

 

Agreed, but they've already failed to enact it, and it was three years ago. Democracy has already failed. I'd have accepted us fully leaving shortly after the referendum. Not because I think it would've been great, but because most of the country voted for it. I'm not interested now though when I think the leavers are now in the minority, and if so us leaving isn't democracy, it's the minority clinging to an out of date vote.

 

I've no interest in a 3 year old vote "being respected" when I think the public is now mostly remain.

 

If we do leave I doubt a lot of leavers will be too bothered about having another referendum in a few years if it's clear that most people want to return to the EU. I hope you keep the dictatorship thing in mind if that happens, in that case it'd be one side winning then not giving them another vote because they don't like the implications.

 

But I don't agree with the idea of one side "winning" then it being done and dusted for this generation or whatever crap we're suppposed to believe. Like I said I think it should be done more often, at the longest once every decade. And I don't give a fuck if the EU doesn't like that, maybe they should concentrate on democracy themselves, allowing parliament to create legislation would be a good start.

 

And yeah I think the leave campaign were a bunch of fraudulent scum, but it's clear that a tiny group of the population (parliament) has blocked what over half the country voted for. If we can have national elections decided because a bunch of fraudulent scum have convinced the population with their lies, it don't think it should be any different with an EU referendum, even if I don't like the implications of it.

[Pureblood]

When we do leave all of the hate fuelled gammon army will realise that their shitty lives aren't getting any better and will have to find a new target to turn their hatred on, which needs a constant outlet.  Who will it be?  

[aRdja]

1 minute ago, TK421 said:

When we do leave all of the hate fuelled gammon army will realise that their shitty lives aren't getting any better and will have to find a new target to turn their hatred on, which needs a constant outlet.  Who will it be?  

My money is on BAME.

[Pureblood]

Just now, viRdjil said:

My money is on BAME.

Agreed, combined with a rise in antisemitism. 

[Guest Pistonbroke]

6 minutes ago, TK421 said:

When we do leave all of the hate fuelled gammon army will realise that their shitty lives aren't getting any better and will have to find a new target to turn their hatred on, which needs a constant outlet.  Who will it be?  

 

Definitely the ethnic minorities, or anyone they presume to be not Patriotic. 

[aRdja]

 

[Red Phoenix]

12 minutes ago, TK421 said:

When we do leave all of the hate fuelled gammon army will realise that their shitty lives aren't getting any better and will have to find a new target to turn their hatred on, which needs a constant outlet.  Who will it be?  

 

I don't think we'll leave anyway, even Boss said this a while back I think and I agreed with him. That the whole thing would just be dragged out until we remain somehow.

 

But either way what you mentioned is the main reason I hope we remain, so it's avoided, that and the Trump trade deal of course. But at the same time we can't suspend democracy just because of a hate fuelled gammon army, that's just playing into their hands. We have to deal with them more intelligently. I'm not pretending I have the answers instantly in mind as to how we do that, but it's clear that the nationalists that are hateful racist cunts need their bullshit stopping, it's prehistoric caveman crap and it should be ended somehow.

 

A lot of them love the military too don't they. I'm not saying liking the military is always wrong, but the way so many of them do it just seems like a blind obsession with power. The same military that bombs other countries and leads more people from those countries flooding into Europe because we destroyed their homes. They don't really discuss that bit though for some reason, maybe because it'd show how their problem with immigrants for a big part results from the same military that they love so much. Probably one of the most interesting bits of dissonance on the right.

[Pureblood]

I think we will leave and they will need a new outlet for their relentless hatred. 

[Guest Pistonbroke]

2 minutes ago, TK421 said:

I think we will leave and they will need a new outlet for their relentless hatred. 

I'm not sure about the UK leaving any time soon, although you probably will eventually as a lot of those at the top want to make money, especially out of the NHS. The hatred will certainly find new victims, Bame being the obvious. Like I said though, it will also be vented at those they perceive as not being Patriotic. The vulnerable and needy will also be in for some shit. 

[Pureblood]

1 minute ago, Pistonbroke said:

I'm not sure about the UK leaving any time soon, although you probably will eventually as a lot of those at the top want to make money, especially out of the NHS. The hatred will certainly find new victims, Bame being the obvious. Like I said though, it will also be vented at those they perceive as not being Patriotic. The vulnerable and needy will also be in for some shit. 

Boris Johnson is running his leadership campaign on a message of "leave at the end of October, come what may".  Assuming he wins, which he surely will, there will be a major shitstorm coming if he doesn't go through with it.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

3 minutes ago, TK421 said:

Boris Johnson is running his leadership campaign on a message of "leave at the end of October, come what may".  Assuming he wins, which he surely will, there will be a major shitstorm coming if he doesn't go through with it.

That wanker will say anything to have a shot in the big chair. He knows that if he doesn't deliver Brexit that the likes of Osbourne and his Tory rebels, Labour, The SNP, The Lib Dems and the downing street cat will face the brunt of all the shit. 

[Pureblood]

2 minutes ago, Pistonbroke said:

That wanker will say anything to have a shot in the big chair. He knows that if he doesn't deliver Brexit that the likes of Osbourne and his Tory rebels, Labour, The SNP, The Lib Dems and the downing street cat will face the brunt of all the shit. 

Surely it has to come to a head at some point though? For the Tories collectively, not just the PM.

[Captain Howdy]

2 hours ago, viRdjil said:

 

 

1 hour ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Myths and rubbish.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48899814

 

Thing is though they are politicians, therefore if they tell you today is Sunday it would be prudent to still check the calendar, apparently Blair and Brown had no issues.

[aRdja]

6 minutes ago, Captain Howdy said:

 

Thing is though they are politicians, therefore if they tell you today is Sunday it would be prudent to still check the calendar, apparently Blair and Brown had no issues.

More than happy for you to trust Mail Online instead.

[Captain Howdy]

Just now, viRdjil said:

More than happy for you to trust Mail Online instead.

You must have me confused with somebody else, I don’t trust any of them

[Duff Man]

I'm just glad we're not wasting precious extension time on a drawn out charade to which we already know the answer.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

18 minutes ago, TK421 said:

Surely it has to come to a head at some point though? For the Tories collectively, not just the PM.

Depends if labour can sort out a few issues, which is doubtful, as the right wing media will just make a load of new shit up which the electorate will gobble up like free food at a BBQ. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

12 hours ago, Boss said:

It's amazing what so called democrats will do to overturn the result of a democratic vote. Give them more democracy they say. Well democracy only works if you're willing to enact the result of the vote. If one side wins and then you give them another vote, and another, because you don't like the answer, then that's not a democracy, that's a dictatorship. 

Nobody is trying to overturn democracy. 

 

The problem from the start has been (as plenty of people warned before the Referendum) the fact that "Leave" was always so poorly defined. The Government has tried to enact the result for three years, but they haven't found a version of Brexit that satisfies all the Leave-supporting MPs (never mind the Remainers).

 

The "another vote because you don’t like result" flapdoodle is bullshit designed to obfuscate what a confirmatory vote is.  I thought that point had been cleared up more than 2 years ago. If you have a vote on whether or not to go to the pictures, it is not undemocratic to have a follow-up vote to decide which film to see (even if that second vote results in a decision to stay in because all the available films are shit).

 

And repeatedly going to the public for their verdict is, pretty much, the opposite of a dictatorship. 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, TK421 said:

Surely it has to come to a head at some point though? For the Tories collectively, not just the PM.

I think the options are 

1. If Parliament does nothing, No Deal is still the default position;

2. Labour forces a motion of No Confidence; the Government falls; there is a General Election; whichever party wins, the new crop of MPs are able to get the numbers to enact some form of Brexit;

3. As a way of staving off a No Confidence vote, the Government agrees to a confirmatory referendum; or

4. Some other shit that I've not thought of.

 

Scenarios 2 and 3 (and 4?) depend on the EU being willing to allow more time.

 

In short, three years after that shitwitted vote, there's still no clarity on what happens next.