Does Rodgers deserve another season.

[Pureblood]

Lets say for argument - we finish 6th, 1 point off 5th - with 65 points. I would say we have improved. Some would argue we haven't because we won nothing, others 7th - 6th is 'meh'! Either way it isn't enough to sack a manager after one season.

 

If we get 65 points I would concede that we have improved, but would question whether it was all worth it having basically decided that the cups don't matter to Liverpool FC (not saying that's your stance, but it is FSG's).

 

It's a very big if, though, and what's more likely is we'll finish the season as inconsistently as we started it, playing nice football when the conditions are right and floundering in the face of adversity.

[Whelan]

Mate if u offered me 6th and 65 points I'd bite your hand off but we wont get 6th IMO.

 

I think we will finish 6th - but I think Arsenal are too far ahead. Everton have quite a tough run in.

 

Of course we need to win.

[Section_31]

Hate all this 'oh look the morons are out' bollocks.

 

First off, if someone airs a gripe on here about Rodgers, what difference does it make? It's an internet thread.

 

Second, the reason it's quiet after a victory is probably because anyone who's not convinced by him is going to look like a thankless prick if they come on here and point out the fact we've just beaten a really shit side.

 

The only time in recent months I've wavered in my doubts over Rodgers was the spurs win, that impressed me far more than beating poor sides four or five nil or throwng away victories against arse and citeh.

 

He can have all the time he wants, we can score a hatfull against any mediocre side you care to parade at Anfield, and it won't change the fact he doesn't know how to organise a defence and seemingly has no grasp of tactics.

 

As I said earlier, he's the anti-Houllier. Houllier played some dour football but I never saw him outhought, not even by Ferguson or Wenger. Evans did constantly to almost comic effect. He'd have McAteer bombing down the right all match while Gary Pallister floated balls over his head into the space behind for Giggs to run wild, and Evans wouldn't see it until the 89th minute, or more often than not he wouldn't, and the players would get the blame or we'd go and buy another defender.

 

That's how I feel watching us under Rodgers as we constantly get over run in midfield, the man's constantly watching a different match and doesn't seem to grasp the fact that playing passing football and throwing men forward doesn't always seem to have the desired effect.

[MOGLET]

Had it? Sorry must have imagined those defeats, must have imagined all those arguments in the ground at Sunderland and Newcastle, must have imagined those boo's against Wigan, Fulham and West Brom.

 

Yes - we were totally united.

 

I didnt say we were, I said "That allied with the fact the club was starting to feel like it had come back together at last, and the feel good factor had almost returned too?"

 

So calm down tiger.

 

 

 

Clearly it isn't. However we could finish on 65 points and still 7th. And since, I have never once suggested Kenny should have been sacked (something you seemed to have inferred on your own), i'm not sure what relevance that is.

 

I never said you did, I was pointing out that he was sacked with a better return for the season (cup finals, europa) etc

What we could finish with is neither here nor there until we finish, if we do, then 1 place further up the table, with nothing else, is not improvement in anyones book, no matter how you fit the numbers.

 

 

 

Sorry was Kenny not sacked at the end of the season? As I said, and people seem to stupid to understand this (since I repeated it so many fucking times) - cups are great (although I didn't enjoy Cardiff last year), but they have not been regular and are not a good way to measure improvement or where a team is. In theory - Wigan could better what we achieved last season, yet still go down (maybe we could get him to replace Rodgers! Everyone would really welcome Martinez wouldn't they) - have they progressed from last year? Would you say that they have improved because they won the trophy?

 

Hence my point about our first cup in 6 years etc, so yes, a huge improvement, but do feel free to get angry without reading what you are arguing at. wigan dont come into the debate

 

 

 

Surely if the right manager is appointed he won't need two years! Or is that just a convenient get out clause? And the reason why Rodgers is given more time than Roy is blindingly obvious to anyone who spends money and time following the team - the abject shite served up by Hodgson, and his complete and utter lack of respect for us, the fans was why he was fucking hated. If you genuinly think they are both the same then I have absolutely no intention of engaging with you.

 

I dont think they are the same at all, what I said was, both are/were not good enough for the job, yet both treated totally differently by the fan base. One was a cock, the other decent enough guy, but both not good enough

 

Rodgers is 39 years old - and could very well develop into a top manager - that was why he was appointed.

 

Which isnt good enough reason for him to be the manager, or be given time to see if he does. We arent a testing ground for wannabe managers, we deserve better than that.

 

 

 

 

 

Oh and btw Jsims, GH won 5 trophies not 3, 6 if you count the charity shield or whatever they call it now.

[Code]

Ahh comparisons with Barcelona again, truly amazing.

 

Take Messi out of that Barca team and they would have no chance of winning the league in England.

 

Maybe we should give Rodgers time so he can find a new Messi, I'm sure they have a few spare ones lying around in Swansea.

[jsims]

Under Rafa in 2007/8, we came second and were the highest goalscorers, nine more than Man U. Only Chelsea and Man u conceded fewer, just three-few less.

 

That is hardly a system built on not conceding.

 

And while i dont want to take anything away from what he did and that team he built, i will argue that if he didnt restrict us so much defensively post christmas we wouldnt have drawn so many games and would have walked that league.

 

I remember us hammering Villa and gerrard came out and said "this is what we can do when the shackles have been taken off" That interview spoke volumes. Players dont want to be restricted and defend for 75 minutes, good players want to go out and attack and score.

 

But my main point is what happened the next season? It all fell apart and fast.

 

His system didnt allow for us to integrate youth easily if at all. Same with houllier.

[zigackly]

53 is marginal - 60 plus is demonstrable improvement in my opinion, 65 would good improvement.

 

And I have certainly enjoyed the football more this season, just as I enjoyed 2010-11 back end, 2011-12 start more than Rafa's last season.

 

Sorry deleted this - I am being a pedantic cunt here by the way Zig! Don't think we have improved enough for it to be straight forward - which is always a good sign.

 

Fair enough mate. I qualified it with "at this point" deliberately though. Three points better off, scored a few more, conceded a few more. Any assumption we will finish a lot better off is just that. There could be a few more Southamptons to come yet.

 

I can't say I am altogether enjoying it. We flatter to deceive so much. I'm not one who loves very attacking or very defensive football so much as a balanced team that is proficient in both.

[bossy]

Fuck off with the 'if we didn't have Suarez' ar.guments. About as useful as the old if my aunty had balls nonsense.

 

I'm sorry that so many of you hate our manager and can only see the shit performances and not the really good ones and seemingly forget about all the absolute wank served up for quite a long time by Rafa amongst other managers. I'm sorry because you are going to have to put up with Rodgers for at least another season I bet.

[Whelan]

If we get 65 points I would concede that we have improved, but would question whether it was all worth it having basically decided that the cups don't matter to Liverpool FC (not saying that's your stance, but it is FSG's).

 

It's a very big if, though, and what's more likely is we'll finish the season as inconsistently as we started it, playing nice football when the conditions are right and floundering in the face of adversity.

 

Fundamentaly - we need to be winning trophies and challenging. Until we do that, we will be having this discussion. Champions league will soon become irrelevant if we don't win a trophy (as it is with Arsenal) - but I still come back to the difference between what we want (as fans) and what players want. I don't think foreign players see the cups as being more than a champions league - and will choose accordingly.

 

But - if we don't stop wilting against teams who are in our face (not restricted to this season in my opinion) we won't progress. Scouting of the likes of Wanyama suggest they are aware of this - and to be frank, if I never see Skrtel in a liverpool shirt again I will be happy.

[dennis tooth]

Everton dont do too bad against decent teams it often suits their style.

 

I dont do the whole fixture list thing where we plan ahead thinking we will walk it cos are games are easy because I've never once seen such predictions fulfilled. Every defeat is more ammunition for our next opponent to swat up with, things may get very tough I think.

That said I will credit where it is due, I dont think 65 points is a bad return. I dont think its an improvement if you count cup progress but enough to keep him in the job, perhaps, maybe, not a vindication of his methods. Its a big if anyway.

Time will tell, I've nailed my colours and if FSG dont act I will want him to prove me wrong, I just dont see where the improvement will come from under Rogers now.

The barcas of this world are an exception not the norm, there are loads of clubs trying to copy them but we're liverpool, I just want us to win and a good manager, as Bruce would say must be without form, like water with many styles he can adapt when required.

[Code]

We will finish with around 58 points this season and that will be an underachievment based on the quality of our squad.

 

Those talking about 65 points are as naive and far from reality as Rodgers tactics.

[Whelan]

When I look at a young player I sometimes think 'needs to add this or that to his game' - Henderson, Shelvey, Wisdom, Sterling - I think that for all of them.

 

I also think that of managers - always felt Rafa needed to be less focussed on 'controlling the game' than winning it, Houllier needs to be less focussed on keeping it tight and needs to look forward- and Rodgers needs to learn to be pragmatic - not by having Caroll as an option, but - by using Saturday as an example, starting with another midfielder - and asking Sturridge to hold the ball up more, maybe play him wide of Suarez - but not expect to turn up and out pass teams when we are not good enough to do so.

 

But the bottom line is that almost everyone at the club needs to up their game - if they don't then - we will be back here in 3 seasons, talking about the same things. I trust people are not so blinded by the obvious - which I think this is - to change. So I am quite optimistic, but I have always been so with our managers, with one glaring exception - I don't recall every not believing , Souness, Roy, Ged, Rafa, Kenny or Brendan will win the league.

[jsims]

We will finish with around 58 points this season and that will be an underachievment based on the quality of our squad.

 

 

Hahahahah

 

Quality of our squad, good one mate

 

I think the quality of our sqaud has been exposed for the last 4-5 years

[Coro]

by using Saturday as an example, starting with another midfielder

 

Difference there being it was glaringly obvious to anyone watching apart from Rodgers.

[Whelan]

Difference there being it was glaringly obvious to anyone watching apart from Rodgers.

 

A lot of fans are great at pointing out the glaringly obvious after the match - that same team did start really well against Spurs - but we collectivley played really well against Spurs as well.

 

We'll have to see what happens against Villa - same again, fair criticism.

[Code]

A lot of fans are great at pointing out the glaringly obvious after the match - that same team did start really well against Spurs - but we collectivley played really well against Spurs as well.

 

We'll have to see what happens against Villa - same again, fair criticism.

 

We were shite against Spurs and got gifted the game by them through basic schoolboy stuff.

 

They ran straight through us all game until we brought a 3rd midfielder on, how rodgers did not take notice of this I'll never know.

[VladimirIlyich]

 

Then they fell apart and so did the systems they had in place

 

In fact they fell hard and fast didn't they?

 

Those systems of not conceding and built around defending only lasted 1 year in terms of a title challenge? And then those systems completely fell apart. So did the managers' date=' and so did they players.

 

Those systems were also shit in terms of producing youth players.

 

Rafa won 2 trophies, the champions league and F.A. cup

 

Houllier won 3 trophies, Uefa, f.a and carling cup

 

You cant count the community bloody shield as a cup and the super cup is just a one off game.

 

We need something that we can build upon year on year, i just don't get why fans cant see this when the history of our club points to this.[/quote']

 

Bet you are a bundle of fun at parties.

 

Youve just written off most of our success over the past 15 years.

 

Rodgers can only dream of achieving what either of those two managers did.

[zigackly]

They ran straight through us all game until we brought a 3rd midfielder on, how rodgers did not take notice of this I'll never know.

 

Yeah it was lucky Pascoe slipped that substitution in while Rodgers was checking the racing form on his phone.

[Major Tom]

They ran straight through us all game until we brought a 3rd midfielder on, how rodgers did not take notice of this I'll never know.

 

erm..

[Major Tom]

We were shite against Spurs and got gifted the game by them through basic schoolboy stuff.

 

 

Conversely, we played the champions off the park, twice, and walked away with draws.

 

Performance or results? If your answer is performance over results - which seemingly it is - then you're a dolt.

[Code]

Yeah it was lucky Pascoe slipped that substitution in while Rodgers was checking the racing form on his phone.

 

Haha I'm talking about why we continued with the same set up that did not work at either Oldham or Spurs away to Soton, with just two midfielders.

[RobbieOR]

When you grow up Robbie you'll realize that having an open mind and being willing to change ones mind is a character strength and not a weakness.

 

I did change my opionion re Dalglish but only as a result of seeing City nearly implode. It was a reminder that winning is rare and that men like Dalglish (proven winners) are special and should not be cast aside lightly. My error was getting impatient with him in the first place.

 

Rodgers offers nothing, has never won anything of distinction, nor ever will. Having said that I'm still not saying he should be sacked now, never have. I don't like or rate him but given what FSG asked him to do its common decency to give him at least 4 windows and 24 months barring a relegation situation. He's kept us upper mid table so he's not as bad as most say nor is he anywhere near as good as you believe, (a belief you'll likely choose to forget in future years).

 

He's halfway through what I think is fair, FSG will ultimately decide and I suspect his results in the table make up only a small part of how they will measure his performance, he may be here for a while....our very own David Moyes.

 

Fuck me. As I said, clueless. Stick to a sport you havent only jumped on the bandwagon on. 'Our very own David Moyes' is proof of this. It makes absolutely no sense.

[Code]

Conversely, we played the champions off the park, twice, and walked away with draws.

 

Performance or results? If your answer is performance over results - which seemingly it is - then you're a dolt.

 

Oh dear, people trying to be clever and failing is actually pretty funny.

 

We did not, but thanks for strengthening my points as we started with Gerrard, Lucas, Allen and Gerrard, Lucas, Henderson in those games, major difference.

[Major Tom]

We did not

 

Well, then - and not that it needed any confirmation - your agenda is clear.

 

- Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn -

[jsims]

Bet you are a bundle of fun at parties.

 

Youve just written off most of our success over the past 15 years.

 

Rodgers can only dream of achieving what either of those two managers did.

 

You're right, in his first season and only 8 months into the job.....he can only dream of doing what they did

 

I guess he can only dream of collapsing like a house of cards within 12 months also