Go fuck yourselves FSG

[The Acolyte]

Looks to me that they've decided to "stick" rather than "twist".

Putting the brakes on more or less everything as its not the cash cow they imagined as they need to spend but spend wisely. They left it in the hands of people who should've known better and they failed them. How Ayre is still there is anyones guess. Probably due to his success on the commercial aspect of things is why he kept his job.

Someone needs to tell them that sitting still gets you killed, under Moores we stopped and was overtaken by the Mancs and we've been playing catch-up ever since.

If you don't have the stomach for the fight and the decisions you have to make and the noses you may put out of joint then pack up your tents and fuck off.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

A link to something I said, just for Coro:

 

With what you posted in the sticky in mind, and drawing a line under my annoyance with certain things, I'll be more specific as to why I don't particularly agree with some of the things you said. I hope to add to the debate, not detract from it.

 

Your first four or five paragraphs are about Kenny's sacking: As a fan of several decades, I understand how much he means to us as a fanbase. I have my own personal feelings about him; I idolised the player, the manager, and the man. I could sit here and reminisce about kits I'd worn or games I saw or things he'd won. We'd won. I could say how much I love him for this, or that, or the other. We all know what they are. What's the point? To show he meant something to me too? I feel it, I saw it, that's enough for me.

 

That sentiment is great for a supporter. It's what being a fan is all about; the connection to the team and the enjoyment of watching them win. But when debating and analysing what's going on at the club, it's a cloud over some people's heads. They simply stop thinking straight. This club has been operating with that same haze of sentiment hanging over it for too long; people bemoan the lack of league success over the last 20 years but rarely do they stop to think why. The same is true for the Dalglish situation. It's just another brick in the wall of the cobwebbed carcass this club has become.

 

The manager's position could have gone either way, if you ask me. There were reasons for keeping him - a trophy isn't something to completely ignore - and there were a lot of reasons why he should have been let go. If I were to ask my younger self, I'd have no doubt said "the King is the King, the end". Times change. This club has changed. Football sure as fuck has changed, both on and off the field. Kenny changed, too.

 

As I've said before, I think it was the right decision for Kenny to go (although, I never called for him to be sacked). It wasn't only the league position, even if I could list the many things that were wrong, it was his evident plan for the team; the way the team was playing (the 'playing great football' thing is, aside from a few performances, a bit of a myth. It was attacking, but predictable, easy to defend against and in-front of the opposing team's defence), the signings he made (that he wanted), and the sides we were continually losing to that were just... *sigh*. But most of all, it was about the long term future of the club.

 

I want us to build something great over the long term, and I'd totally lost faith in Kenny's ability to do that. In his plan for the team. That's why, for me, it was time. It was just time. We could have given him another year, another two, just to see how things went. To see if it'd get better. I think that was hope more than expectation. We can't live on hope. The club can't survive on the hope our favourite manager will get things right.

 

The general theme of your post was the we were going in the right direction (I'm judging by your 'continued to improve' and 'significantly better football' comments). If he were to have stayed, it'd needed to be to have been to halt the slide and change the ethos, not continue with the plan or carry on doing what we were doing, but just do it a bit better. The wing play, with wingers that couldn't play; the big man up top; the play it back and switch sides... fucking hell, it's not 1995 anymore. We need to move on from that. Maybe Kenny could have done that. I don't think he had any intention of it, judging by everything he said and did.

 

I'd just had enough and didn't believe in it anymore. We did win the Carling Cup. That's a good thing, but it doesn't cover up all the bad things. It does for you, you said, outweigh the negatives; for me, the league cup doesn't paper over the gargantuan cracks. The European Cup might, the Carling Cup doesn't. It was, in my opinion, a total shambles, from top to bottom.

 

It seems like a sin to mention how much money was spent, and the return we got for that spending. It's such a relevant point people try to dismiss. It's important to the future of the club that we get the spending right, esspecially in this era of City, Chelsea and their rich counterparts. It's the number 1 reason why we are where we are. Not just Kenny, but since 1992. Of course, managers make mistakes - all of 'em - and if one out of five of ours were rotten and the others brilliant, that's something easily overlooked.

 

What can't be overlooked is when you've got Andy Carroll, who gave a return of 4 league goals for the £35m (a fee that shouldn't be hidden by the Torres sale. We did, after all, buy the 8th most expensive player in the history of the sport, regardless of who we sold) and looked like a useless buffon for 96.624% of the season, Downing with 0 goals 0 assists for £20m quid, who, well, I'm just going to stop there... The signings were as bad as we have experienced at this club, and that's saying something considering some of the utter dross we've wasted our money on. I bet, since 1999, when United won the treble, we've spent 400-500m on players.

 

The bottom line is that we should have improved immensely based on the amount we spent, and on the half season we had when Kenny was limited to players he didn't choose. You can't regress (and we obviously disagree on that point) as badly as we did, and do it at such a massive cost, and expect to keep on doing it again. You just can't. Not when 'real world' factors, rather than affinity are used as the judging point.

 

Then there's the issues of the owners, the club structure, and how it is run. We've even had people take aim at the ownership for the amount of money they put in. That's a joke. Kenny did nothing but praise their continued support, and even said the owners were disappointed not to have signed more players. The issue isn't how much the owners made available to spend (where the money comes from, and out of which pocket, doesn't really matter), it was how it was spent. As a fan, it's easy to say 'back the manager again'. When it's your business, your finances and your cash on the line, it's not as simple as saying 'yeah, fuck it. Take the chance. If it goes wrong, just have another hundred million'. Is that the wrong attitude from the owners? Of course not. It's hard-headed realism.

 

[EDIT: I intended to include the handling of the Suarez case as something everybody, including the owners, handled poorly, but it didn't seem relevant to the post I was replying to] In fact, the only things the owners have got wrong so far, in my opinion, is failure to control how the media portrays things in the case of the new manager. Then again, there isn't much stopping the media frenzy over this club. I hope Jen Chang can do something, but I doubt it. Not because he's Jen Chang, but because it's a near impossible task. Whether seeking out several managers is the right approach is up for debate. I think we can only judge [whether it was the right decision] when we see what result it yields.

 

The other thing is the lack of information coming out about the stadium. Now, after the Hicks and Gillett years, almost every fan wanted everything done behind closed doors, and in general it is. They hardly talk (there might be some PR play, but meh, welcome to modern football). However, this approach has lead to people saying they've done nothing on the stadium and even suggestions that they're not intending to build one. Truth is, we haven't got a fucking clue. Have we? Do you know? I don't. Just because we don't know what's going on, it doesn't mean nothing is going on. There's the possibility that nothing's going on, I guess, but we've no real idea. Fact is that any sensible plan for growth of this 'asset' must include dramatically increased matchday revenues. Anything else would be idiotic business practice. If they're in this for profit, you don't make it by saving a few million - shared 20 ways - on a player. You certainly don't make it by sacking managers [and paying them and their staff multi-millions in severance packages]. You grow your asset from 300m, into a £1b juggernaut. We've got that capability. They know that.

 

They're miles away from being the 'clueless clowns' some are now attempting to paint them as. They're miles away from being Hicks and Gillett for that matter, but that hasn't stopped some fans with a newly formed grudge attempting to make out that they are. Shockingly, that hyperbole only started a few days ago. They're still the same considered, intelligent owners they were when they took over. It's just that some people - and I don't include you in this - have a massive issue with one of the calls they're made and they're done with these owners.

 

What is happening has needed to happen for almost two decades but, regardless of how intelligent or considered they are, they're going to make wrong calls. They're going to make mistakes, regardless of their intentions. This could turn out badly. It'll end them if it does, but it could be a brilliant new chapter in our history if they get it right. For too long we've been cowardly, and this is something they should have done when they had the good will right at the beginning.

 

They honeymoon is now over, and they have to start proving themselves to get good will. But, for me, they're neither good nor bad. Yet. They're certainly not idiots, though. We're at a crossroads and instead of going straight ahead, like we have done for decades, we're taking a left. Might be a bumpy ride. Poking the owners in the face whilst they're driving, however, probably isn't going to make the journey much more fun.

[xerxes]

I have to say that is a pretty sound post from Hank Moody.

 

I could quibble around the edges, but the body of it is as it is.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I have to say that is a pretty sound post from Hank Moody.

 

I could quibble around the edges, but the body of it is as it is.

 

I'm open to that, mate?

[xerxes]

I'm open to that, mate?................

 

They're still the same considered, intelligent owners they were when they took over.

 

First Hank, a reminder that I agree with virtually all of your post. it was this implication ( which you did not explicitly say) that I query.

 

Any rational analysis of the people involved with FSG reveals a body of men who have been extraordinarily successful in business. In that regard I agree with your statement.

 

However some make the assumption that because of their success in business, and in sport that they know well, NASCAR and baseball, that those skills are automatically transferable to England and football. In business the foibles of trans-atlantic commerce are the stuff of legend, in sport the absence of British and European investment in America, and the chequered record of American sports in Europe and the Uk is evidence of the differences, not the similarities.

 

A criticism I would make of FSG is that they have not done with us what they would have done if we had been a widget factory, namely, invest in the best British widget CEO that they could afford, and appoint a Board with lots of widget expertise. That is the considered intelligent move, and one they have not made.

 

I believe that FSG only understood what was going on with the Suarez affair when the flames started to lick around their feet in the shape of the NYT article. A savvy Board and CEO would have been on to it shutting it down from day one. Equally, a football savvy Board would have queried the credentials of Comolli to be DOF, a man who Wenger had ridiculed, and would have queried the haste on spunking the £50m Torres receipt like a drunken sailor on shore leave.

 

Now I accept that Boards make mistakes, that is life. What I do not accept is that FSG have set up the LFC Board to be anywhere near as strong as it could, or should be, to minimise mistakes. Barwick, Dein, Kenyon, Edelman, Valdano, amongst others have all been, at various times, heavyweight contenders for CEO, Van Gaal and Capello serious DOF candidates. Kenny should have been offered a non-exec directorship with responsibility for football. Now the personalities can be argued about – but their football knowledge cannot. This begs the question, why haven’t these sorts of appointments been made?

 

My guess is this. I think that FSG are happy to have a placeman as MD/CEO. I don’t think that they want someone telling them what they should do – and don’t know. Instead they would rather have someone grateful for the extraordinary good fortune of having the MD’s job. In turn I suspect that Ayre was intimidated by Kenny, couldn’t say no/question him on the Carroll deal and other dubious summer transfers, or control/guide him on the Suarez affair. I suspect that he is happy to see the back of Dalglish. In turn, I think that Ayre is happy wuth Rodgers BECAUSE of his lack of experience. He is one of the few people we could have appointed where he can claim to have MORE PL experience than the manager. And so a culture of weakness is perpetuated.

 

It is in the above sense that I challenge those who say “FSG know what they are doing” and suggest that in some key areas they are not exercising good business practise, let alone good football practise.

Edited August 14, 2012 by xerxes

[The Acolyte]

First Hank, a reminder that I agree with virtually all of your post. it was this implication ( which you did not explicitly say) that I query.

 

Any rational analysis of the people involved with FSG reveals a body of men who have been extraordinarily successful in business. In that regard I agree with your statement.

 

However some make the assumption that because of their success in business, and in sport that they know well, NASCAR and baseball, that those skills are automatically transferable to England and football. In business the foibles of trans-atlantic commerce are the stuff of legend, in sport the absence of British and European investment in America, and the chequered record of American sports in Europe and the Uk is evidence of the differences, not the similarities.

 

A criticism I would make of FSG is that they have not done with us what they would have done if we had been a widget factory, namely, invest in the best British widget CEO that they could afford, and appoint a Board with lots of widget expertise. That is the considered intelligent move, and one they have not made.

 

I believe that FSG only understood what was going on with the Suarez affair when the flames started to lick around their feet in the shape of the NYT article. A savvy Board and CEO would have been on to it shutting it down from day one. Equally, a football savvy Board would have queried the credentials of Comolli to be DOF, a man who Wenger had ridiculed, and would have queried the haste on spunking the £50m Torres receipt like a drunken sailor on shore leave.

 

Now I accept that Boards make mistakes, that is life. What I do not accept is that FSG have set up the LFC Board to be anywhere near as strong as it could, or should be, to minimise mistakes. Barwick, Dein, Kenyon, Edelman, Valdano, amongst others have all been, at various times, heavyweight contenders for CEO, Van Gaal and Capello serious DOF candidates. Kenny should have been offered a non-exec directorship with responsibility for football. Now the personalities can be argued about – but their football knowledge cannot. This begs the question, why haven’t these sorts of appointments been made?

 

My guess is this. I think that FSG are happy to have a placeman as MD/CEO. I don’t think that they want someone telling them what they should do – and don’t know. Instead they would rather have someone grateful for the extraordinary good fortune of having the MD’s job. In turn I suspect that Ayre was intimidated by Kenny, couldn’t say no/question him on the Carroll deal and other dubious summer transfers, or control/guide him on the Suarez affair. I suspect that he is happy to see the back of Dalglish. In turn, I think that Ayre is happy wuth Rodgers BECAUSE of his lack of experience. He is one of the few people we could have appointed where he can claim to have MORE PL experience than the manager. And so a culture of weakness is perpetuated.

 

It is in the above sense that I challenge those who say “FSG know what they are doing” and suggest that in some key areas they are not exercising good business practise, let alone good football practise.

 

Didn't I say this last month?

[s(k)aturation]

A link to something I said, just for Coro:

 

It is a very sound post from you, indeed, NV.

It belies the usual vacuous gainsaying you indulge in with Coro.

 

And, there are fundamental contentions in your post that, because they are simply well articulated contentions, basically give approbation to the viewpoints of the people that disagree with your views.

 

You see, to some there is a point in valuing, idolising, continuing to cherish and publicly acknowledge our respect and love of Liverpool achievements and legends past, like Dalglish. That might not be for you, and private. Fair enough.

 

To some, sentiment does play an important part in debate, discussion and argument. Some people are supporters first and analysts, a distant second. If every post were pure expertise and agreed-on rationalism, most threads wouldn't last a page. When last I looked, this was a Liverpool supporters website, not an analysis column in The Guardian. Sorry, but sometimes you have to put up with and sift through the heartfelt dross, so-called, of the diehard.

 

To some, emotion, love of the club and the past can't be simply detached or discarded, in moving forward. Winston Churchill, recently voted the most influential man in British history (like him or not, and I'm not particularly fussed with him) said that often, to go forward, you have to look to the past. In 1940, rationally, Britain didn't have a prayer.

 

And to some, hope, pure hope, will always be important. If it isn't, then let's change the club anthem while we're at it, because that's a load of old tosh too. Walk on, Walk on, with a sound business plan and a lack of pointless, regressive nostalgia in your heart... and You'll Never...

 

And, on the subject of the Liverpool "rationalist's" bete noir, Andy Carroll... again, some are prepared to make a leap of faith and back him, probably with heart instead of head, rather than see him fucked out after a bad first full season. Simple as that.

 

To some, including me, the owners appeared overly hasty to fire Kenny, and have appeared cold and indifferent on emotional issues at the club. No, we haven't thought of the money. We're supporters. The owners might have had their rational reasons, but these will not become rational vindications until on-field improvement is made. And if improvement isn't made, fast, and they judge the new management regime differently, more leniently, than the last... then the ire of us sentimentalists will be raised. Because yes, NV, you're right. The honeymoon is over.

 

And just as you think this (and they, FSG) are what has needed to happen at the club for two decades now, there are others that are unconvinced, and perhaps their instincts and heart and, yes, pessimism are driving those doubts.

 

But one fact remains. Neither the rationalists, nor the reformers, nor us supposed "naysayers"... none of us... is right or wrong.

 

Yet.

 

Which, surely still gives everyone a right to say whatever they want.

 

Which is what will make this Saturday, its aftermath, and the next 9 months, something I very much and I'm sure you, NV, are looking forward to... with a degree of irrational excitement, trepidation and a certain fear, and embracement, of the unknown.

[xerxes]

Didn't I say this last month?

 

If you did, I agree.

[silverlining]

 

First Hank, a reminder that I agree with virtually all of your post. it was this implication ( which you did not explicitly say) that I query.

 

 

An implication isn't ever explicity stated. It's what makes it an implication, you dopey cunt.

 

I really am very tired of your desperate, tortuous efforts to try and sound cleverer than you are. You mangle language regularly in a misguided and doomed attempt to add meaningless gravitas to your already irritatingly portentous and self-aggrandising bollocks.

 

So stop it.

[Guest San Don]

An implication isn't ever explicity stated. It's what makes it an implication, you dopey cunt.

 

I really am very tired of your desperate, tortuous efforts to try and sound cleverer than you are. You mangle language regularly in a misguided and doomed attempt to add meaningless gravitas to your already irritatingly portentous and self-aggrandising bollocks.

 

So stop it.

 

LOL. While you're at mangling his head, ask him whether HMRC are still the 'preferential creditor' of the old Rangers company as he 'explictly' stated.

[Alan Sex]

This thread makes me think of Truly NSFW stuff going on here. You have been warned but go ahead, click anyway. You can't help yourself.

[Gym Beglin]

Fucking FSG, fucking cowboy fucks, grrr, yeah?, FUCKERS.

Tuesday and nothing. I hope Linda gets a gammy arse.

[Whelan]

This thread makes me think of Truly NSFW stuff going on here. You have been warned but go ahead, click anyway. You can't help yourself.

 

I have a suspicion that most thread's make you think of that type of thread! In fact sitting on the bus, probably makes you think of those types of thread..

[s(k)aturation]

An implication isn't ever explicity stated. It's what makes it an implication, you dopey cunt.

 

I really am very tired of your desperate, tortuous efforts to try and sound cleverer than you are. You mangle language regularly in a misguided and doomed attempt to add meaningless gravitas to your already irritatingly portentous and self-aggrandising bollocks.

 

So stop it.

 

All you need is A.V.B. to jump on this thread now, SL, so you can stop pussyfooting around with Xerxes.

[The Guest]

Looks to me that they've decided to "stick" rather than "twist".

Putting the brakes on more or less everything as its not the cash cow they imagined as they need to spend but spend wisely. They left it in the hands of people who should've known better and they failed them. How Ayre is still there is anyones guess. Probably due to his success on the commercial aspect of things is why he kept his job.

Someone needs to tell them that sitting still gets you killed, under Moores we stopped and was overtaken by the Mancs and we've been playing catch-up ever since.

If you don't have the stomach for the fight and the decisions you have to make and the noses you may put out of joint then pack up your tents and fuck off.

 

I think you are right. This is complete speculation and I don't agree with it all but it's what I think has happened. They must have took advice on how to set things up. They made Kenny the manager and brought in a director of football so that "football people" made the decisions on signings and what value they were worth. I imagine Ayre had little to no input on this and whether that's because he had the balls or not is anyones guess. BUT can you imagine if Ayre would have said "We are not spending £35m on Carroll it's a waste of money" or something to that extent? The backlash would have been unreal. Why is this non football man telling Kenny who he can and can't buy and for what price, why is he qualified to make this decision? Comolli is obviously just some glorified idiot as well who has got lucky with some players in the past, as if he had any input in the decisions which he obviously did he proved himself to be no better than you or I.

 

The reason Ayre is still in a job is either because he mentioned he didn't agree with the transfer policy or he was never asked.

 

FSG then probably thought we've fucking spent all this money to achieve what? 8th? What has gone on and how do we fix it? They then decided to sack the two men they thought were responsible and put a complete system in where that type of money couldn't be wasted again. That's where their original plan that Rodgers rejected come from.

 

After speaking to Rodgers he managed to convince them that to be successful one man does have to make the final decision he just needs a better team around him and one that he chooses. This Agger situation comes from the fact that somebody must be telling FSG there is value in Agger leaving which from a financial perspective there quite blatantly is. He has been injured quite a lot and they are offering a lot of money for a centre half never mind one with a colourful injury record.

 

If FSG make the decision above the managers head it's got as much to do with the previous happenings in transfer windows as it does with anything else. It's sad that's it's got to this but Kenny and Comolli have to take the blame in my eyes if this does get pushed through.

[silverlining]

All you need is A.V.B. to jump on this thread now, SL, so you can stop pussyfooting around with Xerxes.

 

Yeah, he's deffo another one.

 

I'm all for esoteric vocabulary, but if you don't know what a word means, DON'T FUCKING USE IT.

And they're both really dull. Which is my main issue. Boring people do my swede in.

 

Xerxes keeps using the word "paradox" to describe something that isn't a paradox, but is, at best, "slightly complex or confusing"

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

It is a very sound post from you, indeed, NV.

It belies the usual vacuous gainsaying you indulge in with Coro.

 

And, there are fundamental contentions in your post that, because they are simply well articulated contentions, basically give approbation to the viewpoints of the people that disagree with your views.

 

You see, to some there is a point in valuing, idolising, continuing to cherish and publicly acknowledge our respect and love of Liverpool achievements and legends past, like Dalglish. That might not be for you, and private. Fair enough.

 

To some, sentiment does play an important part in debate, discussion and argument. Some people are supporters first and analysts, a distant second. If every post were pure expertise and agreed-on rationalism, most threads wouldn't last a page. When last I looked, this was a Liverpool supporters website, not an analysis column in The Guardian. Sorry, but sometimes you have to put up with and sift through the heartfelt dross, so-called, of the diehard.

 

To some, emotion, love of the club and the past can't be simply detached or discarded, in moving forward. Winston Churchill, recently voted the most influential man in British history (like him or not, and I'm not particularly fussed with him) said that often, to go forward, you have to look to the past. In 1940, rationally, Britain didn't have a prayer.

 

And to some, hope, pure hope, will always be important. If it isn't, then let's change the club anthem while we're at it, because that's a load of old tosh too. Walk on, Walk on, with a sound business plan and a lack of pointless, regressive nostalgia in your heart... and You'll Never...

 

And, on the subject of the Liverpool "rationalist's" bete noir, Andy Carroll... again, some are prepared to make a leap of faith and back him, probably with heart instead of head, rather than see him fucked out after a bad first full season. Simple as that.

 

To some, including me, the owners appeared overly hasty to fire Kenny, and have appeared cold and indifferent on emotional issues at the club. No, we haven't thought of the money. We're supporters. The owners might have had their rational reasons, but these will not become rational vindications until on-field improvement is made. And if improvement isn't made, fast, and they judge the new management regime differently, more leniently, than the last... then the ire of us sentimentalists will be raised. Because yes, NV, you're right. The honeymoon is over.

 

And just as you think this (and they, FSG) are what has needed to happen at the club for two decades now, there are others that are unconvinced, and perhaps their instincts and heart and, yes, pessimism are driving those doubts.

 

But one fact remains. Neither the rationalists, nor the reformers, nor us supposed "naysayers"... none of us... is right or wrong.

 

Yet.

 

Which, surely still gives everyone a right to say whatever they want.

 

Which is what will make this Saturday, its aftermath, and the next 9 months, something I very much and I'm sure you, NV, are looking forward to... with a degree of irrational excitement, trepidation and a certain fear, and embracement, of the unknown.

 

I'm all for irrational, emotive outpourings. I'm all for unbridled passion for the club and the team. The thing is, it's only really appropriate at certain times, like supporting the team or defending it in a tribal quarrel with a Manc, or summat.

 

When talking to somebody like Coro, who positions himself as an enlightened thinker, and talks about 'context' and prople having a 'profound lack of knowledge', I don't think 'come on Big Andy, Lad' quite covers it.

 

What I do disagree with though, is the implication that fan-like emotion should be used in the running of our club. The club has been run like a joke for too long. Way too long. Whether this is the right way, or not, is yet to be seen. I said that myself.

[s(k)aturation]

Yeah, he's deffo another one.

 

I'm all for esoteric vocabulary, but if you don't know what a word means, DON'T FUCKING USE IT.

 

And they're both really dull. Which is my main issue. Boring people do my swede in.

 

Hence my earlier post.

Sometimes it's just fun reading some well-articulated, irrational bitching or sour grapes, than supposedly well thought through, bespoke, rationalist, orderly tedium.

 

Facts alone shouldn't always get in the way of an interesting story.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

First Hank, a reminder that I agree with virtually all of your post. it was this implication ( which you did not explicitly say) that I query.

 

Any rational analysis of the people involved with FSG reveals a body of men who have been extraordinarily successful in business. In that regard I agree with your statement.

 

However some make the assumption that because of their success in business, and in sport that they know well, NASCAR and baseball, that those skills are automatically transferable to England and football. In business the foibles of trans-atlantic commerce are the stuff of legend, in sport the absence of British and European investment in America, and the chequered record of American sports in Europe and the Uk is evidence of the differences, not the similarities.

 

A criticism I would make of FSG is that they have not done with us what they would have done if we had been a widget factory, namely, invest in the best British widget CEO that they could afford, and appoint a Board with lots of widget expertise. That is the considered intelligent move, and one they have not made.

 

I believe that FSG only understood what was going on with the Suarez affair when the flames started to lick around their feet in the shape of the NYT article. A savvy Board and CEO would have been on to it shutting it down from day one. Equally, a football savvy Board would have queried the credentials of Comolli to be DOF, a man who Wenger had ridiculed, and would have queried the haste on spunking the £50m Torres receipt like a drunken sailor on shore leave.

 

Now I accept that Boards make mistakes, that is life. What I do not accept is that FSG have set up the LFC Board to be anywhere near as strong as it could, or should be, to minimise mistakes. Barwick, Dein, Kenyon, Edelman, Valdano, amongst others have all been, at various times, heavyweight contenders for CEO, Van Gaal and Capello serious DOF candidates. Kenny should have been offered a non-exec directorship with responsibility for football. Now the personalities can be argued about – but their football knowledge cannot. This begs the question, why haven’t these sorts of appointments been made?

 

My guess is this. I think that FSG are happy to have a placeman as MD/CEO. I don’t think that they want someone telling them what they should do – and don’t know. Instead they would rather have someone grateful for the extraordinary good fortune of having the MD’s job. In turn I suspect that Ayre was intimidated by Kenny, couldn’t say no/question him on the Carroll deal and other dubious summer transfers, or control/guide him on the Suarez affair. I suspect that he is happy to see the back of Dalglish. In turn, I think that Ayre is happy wuth Rodgers BECAUSE of his lack of experience. He is one of the few people we could have appointed where he can claim to have MORE PL experience than the manager. And so a culture of weakness is perpetuated.

 

It is in the above sense that I challenge those who say “FSG know what they are doing” and suggest that in some key areas they are not exercising good business practise, let alone good football practise.

 

I wouldn't entirely disagree with that, but I don't see it as a huge problem. It's just a case of tweaking the management structure over the coming years.

 

We need a CEO, somebody with experience. Leave the business stuff to Ayre, he's good at that it seems, and lets have somebody like Dein - who I've been saying we need to get for another 10 fucking years! - to run the footballing business (not just on pitch, but the business side of the on-pitch stuff. It's different from sponsorship, etc.).

[silverlining]

Hence my earlier post.

Sometimes it's just fun reading some well-articulated, irrational bitching or sour grapes, than supposedly well thought through, bespoke, rationalist, orderly tedium.

 

Facts alone shouldn't always get in the way of an interesting story.

 

Well, the Forum needs all sorts, but orderly tedium coupled with a smug (albeit misplaced) superiority, and misuse of words? Well, that's a recipe for SL-rage.

 

And facts are overrated. Just like stats.

[s(k)aturation]

I'm all for irrational, emotive outpourings. I'm all for unbridled passion for the club and the team. The thing is, it's only really appropriate at certain times, like supporting the team or defending it in a tribal quarrel with a Manc, or summat.

 

When talking to somebody like Coro, who positions himself as an enlightened thinker, and talks about 'context' and prople having a 'profound lack of knowledge', I don't think 'come on Big Andy, Lad' quite covers it.

 

What I do disagree with though, is the implication that fan-like emotion should be used in the running of our club. The club has been run like a joke for too long. Way too long. Whether this is the right way, or not, is yet to be seen. I said that myself.

 

I don't think it does either... and I, for one, try to be a little more linguistically compelling when I blindly back Carroll. So probably, does Coro.

 

And, I know you "said that". My entire post was an acknowledgment of your viewpoint.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

My entire post was an acknowledgment of your viewpoint.

 

Oh, right.

 

[dennis tooth]

An implication isn't ever explicity stated. It's what makes it an implication, you dopey cunt.

 

I really am very tired of your desperate, tortuous efforts to try and sound cleverer than you are. You mangle language regularly in a misguided and doomed attempt to add meaningless gravitas to your already irritatingly portentous and self-aggrandising bollocks.

 

So stop it.

 

Dont confuse him

[stringvest]

 

Well, the Forum needs all sorts, but orderly tedium coupled with a smug (albeit misplaced) superiority, and misuse of words? Well, that's a recipe for SL-rage.

 

And facts are overrated. Just like stats.

 

Get you Brendan. Though you are right on this, there's an over abundance of tedious shite on here right now. Very little of it is actually relevant. All a bit meh. And endlessly churned out by people who probably think ennui played for Arsenal. I can't wait until the new season starts and we can get all cynical and obsessive about the actual football again.

[Ranxerox]

Watch Scott fuck off now that his arse has been handed to him.

 

 

 

hunh? How was my "arse' handed to me? I simply announced that FSG was now considering something that last year Ayre said would never happen.

 

As for fucking off I'm not on the forum everyday as LFC is not "my life" like it appears to be for you Robbie or whatever the fuck your name is.

 

I run a business, coach a U14 team have a family etc etc. I can guarantee I don't "fuck off" because someone says something harsh.

 

You seem obsessed with me, I'm oddly flattered but also happy to have an ocean seperating us.