Fourth or domestic cup double?

[Captain]

Getting back into the CL is fundamental to the club's future. Its importance almost can't be overstated.

[JohnnyH]

Anyone saying they’d rather 4th place over the cups needs to look at exactly why they fucking bother with football. It’s all about winning cups.

 

Yes, we need to have a long term plan also of progression and if year on year we’re winning a cup but continually finishing around 8th, then we need to re-examine and make the relevant changes, but you treat each season on its merits, and winning trophies is what it’s all about.

[Captain]

If we stay out of the top four, we won't be winning cups year on year.

[Guest davelfc]

If we stay out of the top four, we won't be winning cups year on year.

 

I'm basing my judgement on this season alone. Didn't notice it asking me if I wanted a cup double or 4th place every year.

[fowler9]

both, won't get anywhere settling for just one

[silverlining]

I'm basing my judgement on this season alone. Didn't notice it asking me if I wanted a cup double or 4th place every year.

 

And since when was 4th place ever likely this year?

 

The poll is flawed.

[Guest davelfc]

And since when was 4th place ever likely this year?

 

The poll is flawed.

 

True, which is why I went for cup double this season. As already pointed out, next year 4th or better. But I would take the charity shield instead.

[Major Tom]

Anyone saying they’d rather 4th place over the cups needs to look at exactly why they fucking bother with football. It’s all about winning cups.

 

 

Cups as in 'Cups', or cups as in 'trophies'?

 

For me, it's about winning the league. And to have a better shot at the league we need to qualify for the CL far more often than not. 4th will increase our chances of finishing 3rd which will increase our chances of finishing second....etc etc. Winning a cup doesn't. It is that simple for me. Rightly or wrongly.

[Xherdan]

The poll refers to this season as opposed to from now to infinity.

[satansmutt]

The poll is flawed because it's easy to console yourself with cup wins after a pathetic season in the league. Also I think there will be a difference in voting depending on your age. I bet most of the old gits on the site will vote for cups because they were more important in the old days, the younger fans will think champions league is more important

[Lee909]

The poll is flawed because it's easy to console yourself with cup wins after a pathetic season in the league. Also I think there will be a difference in voting depending on your age. I bet most of the old gits on the site will vote for cups because they were more important in the old days, the younger fans will think champions league is more important

 

Your not labelling yourself a sky supermong there are you?

[WaltonRed]

cups

[Baresi]

It's a bit heavily weighted then, no? As only one as attainable.

 

The question should be set with next year in mind.

[lifetime fan]

We needed a cup this year, if only so Kenny won a cup as a manager during this stint too leaving that budgie cunt as the only manager of us to not win a trophy in living memory.

 

We really need to push for top 4 next season, no excuses.

[DaveT]

If we stay out of the top four, we won't be winning cups year on year.

 

Good point. Including the year we beat Sunderland (1992), the FA Cup has been won NINETEEN times by the 'big' teams (us, ManU, Arsenal, Chelsea and,last year, Man City). In that time, it's only been won twice by teams outside of that group -Everton in 1995 and Portsmouth in 2008 -on their way to being bankrupted by Redknapp.

[satansmutt]

Your not labelling yourself a sky supermong there are you?

 

for the record I am an old git and proud of it and not a sky supermong, the cups were nice this year but champions league is more important long term

[Red Hot]

The Cups for glory and 4th position for revenue. This season will finish on a high if we beat Chelsea at Wembley. But in all honesty the owners may not invest without Champions league rewards.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Good point. Including the year we beat Sunderland (1992), the FA Cup has been won NINETEEN times by the 'big' teams (us, ManU, Arsenal, Chelsea and,last year, Man City). In that time, it's only been won twice by teams outside of that group -Everton in 1995 and Portsmouth in 2008 -on their way to being bankrupted by Redknapp.

 

It's just typical short-termist approach. Cup today, gone tomorrow.

[Guest ShoePiss]

We needed a trophy this season, it's been too long. We needed CL football qualification too because it's very important. Hopefully next season we're winning a cup or two and qualifying for the CL.

 

The end.

[Joe Le Taxi]

I was considering voting for 4th then I saw Xerxes had voted for it.

 

Cups please.

[Torvald Utne]

How about just the league cup and 8th or finishing 4th?

 

Plus, the poll really should have been for next year's campaign.

[RedPaul]

Two cups this year without a doubt after a disappointing league campaign, but next season I expect a top 4 finish as the reality is the longer we are out of the champions league the harder it will be to catch up. Pre-season training to focus on how to put the ball into the back of the net please.

[TheHitman]

Here was a good article a few weeks back.

 

More than any cup the most important thing for this club is to win the league again.” The words resonate these days around Anfield. They actually belong to a 21-year-old Michael Owen, who expressed the sentiment moments after winning the FA Cup by defeating Arsenal in 2001, thanks in the main to his startling masterclass in finishing.

 

Cups were very much the order of the day back then. Liverpool ended the campaign with three of them, as the League Cup and UEFA Cup made for a glittering trophy cabinet to symbolise fresh ambition. “This club is going places,” pledged the manager at the time, Grard Houllier.

 

The season would bring another significant milestone. In 2001 Liverpool made it into the Champions League courtesy of a third-place finish in the league. The cake was duly iced. Rick Parry, who was the club’s chief executive, felt something momentous was brewing. “Liverpool got back on the European map after so long in the wilderness,” he said. “That year was crucial because it was the first time that we qualified for the Champions League and the revenue and the experience that we gained from that gave us a platform to build upon. That in itself was a huge achievement.”

There was abundant reason for optimism. But it was telling that during a debriefing with Houllier to celebrate the cup treble, there was noticeable touchiness when the subject turned to whether this could be a platform for winning the title.

 

Questions about how far Liverpool stood from a genuine attempt to reach the Premier League summit pinched a raw nerve. “This is not a press conference about Manchester United,” tutted Houllier, with tangible exasperation.

It is also worth noting that the sense of irritation coursing down the western section of the M62 flowed both ways. United were conscious that Liverpool’s hat-trick stole some of the attention from their Premier League victory.

 

Over a decade down the line the question of how much cups mean in relation to league positions has become even more prickly. The Champions League has had a distorting effect. It was no coincidence that John W Henry, Liverpool’s American owner, was quick to turn his thoughts to a Champions League finish while he was being interviewed at Wembley after the club’s League Cup victory in February.

 

Although an FA Cup semi-final looms, league defeats have all but extinguished hopes of a top-four spot. Henry, remember, had warned that failure on that front would constitute a “major disappointment” at the beginning of the campaign.

According to John Williams, the Liverpool historian and author of Red Men, the emphasis in football has changed from what he calls the “event”, such as a cup final, to the “process”, such as qualifying for the Champions League. “That is even more so when the owners are foreign,” Williams says.

 

“The whole ambition is about being seen as part of the elite in Europe and gaining a route into the global market. Not being able to expose the brand is painful financially as well as in status terms.”

Williams sees a contrast between the owners, who are focused on the process, and the manager, Kenny Dalglish, who still believes in the magic of the event. “Kenny is old school, from the 70s and 80s where winning trophies is important. This notion of success if you finish second, third or fourth is a bit alien to him.”

While Liverpool struggle in the league, as an alarming sequence of five defeats from their last six testifies, Dalglish continues to make the case that the team’s exploits in the cups deserve more respect. He recently urged critics to “take an intelligence check” such is his conviction that the cups should be taken into greater account when Liverpool’s season is assessed.

 

According to Williams, fan opinion at Anfield is split. “Is it enough to win cups? We have this conversation in the pub all the time,” he says. “Is it really a successful season for Liverpool even if you finish seventh, 30 points off the top, regardless of winning cups? It is a very live debate.”

 

There is no debate when it comes to analysing where the team needs to improve, however. In that 2001 season Owen scored 25 goals. The absence of a predator in the current set-up will be felt acutely as Liverpool visit Newcastle United on Sunday, the club they enriched by 35m in exchange for Andy Carroll in January last year.

 

Dave Usher, editor of the Liverpool Way fanzine, says a shrewder eye for the market is a necessity. “There is only one way to get the club back where we want to be: buy better players,” he says. “It really is that straightforward. If we spend our money better, we’ll improve on the pitch and have more chance of winning more trophies, getting in the Champions League and attracting better players. Get the signings right and it causes the snowball effect. Get them wrong and you have what we’ve seen this season a team set to finish below Newcastle and struggling to hold off Everton, Stoke, Norwich, Swansea, Sunderland etc.”

 

What the Carroll deal crystallises is a general concern over the decision making of Dalglish and his scouting department. As Williams points out, this is another thorny and emotionally clouded issue: “Bob Paisley used to say: ‘Judge managers by their judgment of players.’ The complication of Kenny’s situation is that’s not how you judge him. He’s Kenny. He’s the most loved player in the whole history of the club. But in the end the owners have to look coldly at his judgment.”

And there is the bottom line. Whatever Dalglish feels about what ranks as satisfaction for Liverpool Football Club, we have to wait and see what Fenway Sports Group think at the end of this erratic season.

[goatboy59]

[Code]

I like the cups.

 

However I voted for 4th on the basis that a team that finished fourth would stand a better chance of winning the domestic cups the following season.

 

Tell me this is some kind of weird joke I dont understand?

 

So instead of winning actual trophies, its better to finish 4th so you can have a better chance to win those trophies next season?

 

I pray to God this is one of those whoosh moments.