Stabbing burglars 'will be legal'

[dennis tooth]

What a total spacker this man is. I dont care what anyone says, this man needs to have his knee caps blown off and then to be asked again what his position is just to be sure.

Should save a few prison places but not going to help the NHS in theory. Expect to hear some poor kids come home late and been bludgeoned to death in the dark by their own fathers with a hammer because they thought it was the hamburgular.

 

 

Justice Secretary Ken Clarke has said a householder who knifes a burglar will not have committed a criminal offence under plans to clarify the law on self-defence in England.

 

He told the BBC people were entitled to use "whatever force necessary" to protect themselves and their homes.

 

David Cameron recently said the issue should be put "beyond doubt".

 

Labour said the law was "already clear" and the remarks were a "smokescreen" to hide confusion over sentencing changes.

 

Mr Clarke has come under attack over proposed changes to sentencing policy but has denied making a series of U-turns on key elements amid pressure from Tory MPs and sections of the media.

 

He has said he is committed to axing indeterminate prison sentences despite opposition from many Tory MPs.

 

He said indeterminate sentences - where prisoners can be held beyond their original release date if they still pose a danger to society - had been an "unmitigated disaster" since they had been introduced by Tony Blair and suggested an alternative to them would be in place within two years.

 

On people's rights to self-defence in their homes, Mr Clarke said there was "constant doubt" about the issue and the proposed legislation would make this "much clearer".

 

Under the terms of the 2008 Criminal Justice and Immigration Act, homeowners who use "reasonable force" to protect themselves against intruders should not be prosecuted, providing they use no more force than is absolutely necessary.

'Absolute right'

 

But the government is set to place people's right to defend their property, long present in common law, in statute law.

 

"It's quite obvious that people are entitled to use whatever force is necessary to protect themselves and their homes," Mr Clarke said.

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We will make it quite clear you can hit the burglar with the poker if he's in the house and you have a perfect defence when you do so”

 

 

 

Asked about what this would mean in practice, he said: "If an old lady finds she's got an 18 year old burgling her house and she picks up a kitchen knife and sticks it in him she has not committed a criminal offence and we will make that clear."

 

He added: "We will make it quite clear you can hit the burglar with the poker if he's in the house and you have a perfect defence when you do so."

 

Mr Clarke said legal protection would not extend to anyone shooting a burglar in the back when they were fleeing or "getting their friends together to beat them up".

 

"We all know what we mean when we say a person has an absolute right to defend themselves and their home and reasonable force.

 

"Nobody should prosecute and nobody should ever convict anybody who takes those steps."

Sentencing policy

 

But Labour said ministers had created confusion by first suggesting they were going to change existing laws before deciding merely to clarify them.

 

"The law is already clear - under the existing law people can rightly defend themselves and their property with reasonable force," said shadow justice secretary Sadiq Khan.

 

He added: "This government has used spin and smokescreens of new laws in an attempt to distract from what is a justice bill in total shambles."

 

Mr Clarke has been defending proposed sentencing and legal aid changes in Parliament.

 

Although no plans to change indeterminate public protection sentences are currently included in proposed legislation debated on Thursday, Mr Clarke earlier made clear his determination to repeal them.

 

While some people had to stay in prison for an unspecified amount of time, he said the six-year old policy was "filling up" prisons and it was "indefensible" some prisoners did not know how long they would have to serve.

 

Ministers dropped plans to offer suspects pleading guilty at the earliest opportunity a 50% reduction in their jail sentences following a public consultation but Mr Clarke suggested there would be no backtracking on this matter.

 

Although he would consider carefully any changes, he said more prisoners should get "fixed-length" sentences.

Legal aid

 

Tory MP Philip Davies has said indeterminate sentences - 6,000 of which have been handed down - have reduced crime and Mr Clarke's stance on the issue "shows beyond all doubt that re-offending is not his priority".

 

A No 10 spokesman said the government was looking at the system "with a view to replacing it".

 

MPs are also discussing the government's plans to cut legal aid in England and Wales at the second reading of Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill.

 

Under the plans, aimed at saving £300m from the £2.1bn legal aid bill, people will not be eligible for legal aid in a far broader range of civil cases than at present.

 

But they have come under fire from lawyers and campaign groups, who claim they will lead to more crime and penalise victims.

 

Kenneth Clarke yesterday.

[Pony Princess]

I think this idea is awesome. Burglars dying is cool and if a few kids die by accident, well, you can't make an omelette without killing a few kids.

[lifetime fan]

He's obviously fed up with the Mail slagging him, throw a dog a bone.

[dennis tooth]

"If an old lady finds she's got an 18 year old burgling her house and she picks up a kitchen knife and sticks it in him she has not committed a criminal offence and we will make that clear."

 

What planet is this man on? Got to be an alcoholic surely?

 

MPs are also discussing the government's plans to cut legal aid in England and Wales at the second reading of Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill.

 

Under the plans, aimed at saving £300m from the £2.1bn legal aid bill, people will not be eligible for legal aid in a far broader range of civil cases than at present.

 

Fucking joke! They cut the police, pile extra duties on them, etc, etc and make the law unworkable and then cut legal aid? Off this cocksuckers head right now.

[Anny Road]

Great idea. Bring it on. Can we do other things like set them on fire or is it just stabbing?

[melons]

I love this idea, now to just tempt the ex and a few family members to come and rob something - jobs a good 'un!

[Duff Man]

Do I have to be old? I wanna stab people now goddamit!

[Anny Road]

What realm do these people live in. 'Hit him with a poker'. How many people have a poker these days.

[Unrighteous]

To be honest, you should be able to defend yourself by any means necessary if you have an intruder.

[Whelan]

Could you rape them?

[Unrighteous]

Could you rape them?

 

Hmmm... I dunno... not many fit birds are burglars.

[Guest davelfc]

Could you rape them?

 

Minimum force necessary, so you might get away with that.

[Whelan]

Hmmm... I dunno... not many fit birds are burglars.

 

They all look the same with a balaclava on, and keeping within the spirit of the act, entering via the rear entrance you may not feel any difference!

 

Minimum force necessary, so you might get away with that.

 

Hmmm, well I don't have a poker so would need to use what I have at my disposal.

 

Did Ken Clarke promise more Matlock as well?

[AVEEZ]

What planet is this man on? Got to be an alcoholic surely?

 

 

 

Fucking joke! They cut the police, pile extra duties on them, etc, etc and make the law unworkable and then cut legal aid? Off this cocksuckers head right now.

 

I completely agree with the cuts to legal aide, its a farce in itself - one of the best things about this, will be proposals to remove legal aid from squatters! I do not believe that people taking over property that rightfully belongs to someone else, should get tax payers’ money to defend themselves...there are many many uses of legal aide that are just ridiculous - this is just one of them!

[Hermes]

If I found a burglar in my house I'd have stabbed him anyway, nice to know I can now do it legally.

[Guest davelfc]

I think common sense should prevail in cases where a person breaks into a house and is subsequently hurt by the inhabitant.

 

It's difficult to legislate and seemingly opening the door to all sorts of mad antics isn't the answer. What they need to do is like I said above, use common sense.

 

Investigate, report and then let the CPS decide. It would only take a few cases publicised to let everyone realise where the line was.

[dennis tooth]

It would only take a few cases publicised to let everyone realise where the line was.

 

Except no two judges agree on anything as it is.

[Guest davelfc]

Except no two judges agree on anything as it is.

 

That's a different issue, you would hope that if common sense was used it wouldn't get that far.

 

I fear the complete lack of common sense in the system is the bigger problem.

[Whelan]

That's a different issue, you would hope that if common sense was used it wouldn't get that far.

 

I fear the complete lack of common sense in the system is the bigger problem.

 

Crime and peoples attitudes pisses me right off. Remember the Farmer who shot two lads in the back? I think he was jailed but there was an almight row over this in the press, with a large percentage of the population stating that he was correct in his actions!

 

Common sense very really comes into how we deal with crime. The recent furor over the Milly Downer case highlights this.

[Paulie Dangerously]

FREE TONY MARTIN

[Whelan]

FREE TONY MARTIN

 

Yeah that was him, turned out to be a fucking Nazi after the trial!

[odris]

I want to buy a poker, fucking boss weapon. Imagine nailing a burglar right in the head with the side spike as you wrapped it round his head? I WANNA FUCKING KILL.

[Paul]

To my mind, the ridiculous extremes of leniency and overreaction Clark has shown of late with regard to, respectively, crimes against the person (ie, rape) and crimes against property perfectly exemplify the fucked up perspective of the average Tory. It's grab and hold whatever I can and fuck everyone else.

[Hermes]

To my mind, the ridiculous extremes of leniency and overreaction Clark has shown of late with regard to, respectively, crimes against the person (ie, rape) and crimes against property perfectly exemplify the fucked up perspective of the average Tory. It's grab and hold whatever I can and fuck everyone else.

 

Burglary is not just a crime against property. There are many people who never recover from it and loads more who have to sell their houses because they can't settle in their house again.

[aws]

My gaff, my rules.