Did Rafa win the Champions League with Houllier´s team?

[WhiskeyJar]

I thought it might make for intersting debate.

 

Rafa hits back at Houllier | Liverpool News, Fixtures, Results, Transfers | Sky Sports

 

Rafael Benitez says Gerard Houllier should stop trying to claim credit for Liverpool's 2005 Champions League win.

 

The Spaniard took over at Anfield in the summer of 2004, ending Houllier's six-year spell in charge, and his appointment paid instant dividends as he led the Reds to European glory in his very first season

 

Earlier this year, the Frenchman argued that he had played a decisive role in the club's triumph success because "apart from two players, they had been signed or developed under me".

 

But speaking exclusively to Sky Sports' Guillem Balague, Benitez dismissed his predecessor's claims, arguing that Liverpool adopted a totally different tactical and mental approach under his leadership.

 

He said that his signings, Xabi Alonso and Luis Garcia, made a significant difference to the squad and that the team had moved on from the one that finished fourth in the Premier League in Houllier's final season.

 

"The last two years of Houllier were not the best," Benitez said.

 

"I was in charge because they decided to change, so that is one crucial point for me too.

 

"But the way we arrived at the final, we had a lot of good games and there were a lot of top sides that we beat.

 

"Key players for us, Alonso and Luis Garcia, were not in the squad (under Houllier) and also the approach of the game changed.

 

"At Valencia, I tried to play higher and press higher, so you can see the tactics were different, the commitment was different and the passion of the players was different.

 

"It was a different team."

 

Click on the video link to see more from Guillem Balague's exclusive interview with Rafael Benitez, exclusively on skysports.com

[Hand Shandy]

You have got to be kidding.

[Jim MM]

Jesus. That's ridiculous.

 

Ballague: Did Houllier win the CL in '05?

Rafa: WTF? Course he didn't, even Houllier himself has shut up about his influence on that now.

Sky: Liverpool ROCKED by VICIOUS INFIGHTING!!

 

And the answer is No.

[WhiskeyJar]

You have got to be kidding.

 

What are you referring to?

[DJLJ]

I thought it might make for intersting debate.

 

 

Perhaps the first time this was mentioned it was going to be an interesting debate. Now having gone over it hundreds of times, what on earth would make this interesting anymore? Everyone knows where everyone stands on this. They are both gone, both have been done to death, surely it doesn't need another thread.

[1892-LFCWasBorn]

 

 

Edited March 29, 2011 by 1892-LFCWasBorn

[Liverpool lad]

I am getting ready for the long haul here.

[Reacher]

Uh-oh.

[Section_31]

[Hand Shandy]

What are you referring to?

 

Well, a combination of things really.

 

1) Slight despair that two of our former managers, both of whom brought significant success to our club, continue a spat that has stretched back for almost 6 years now.

 

2) Another Rafa thread.

 

 

EDIT - DJLJ far quicker off the mark than me.

[WhiskeyJar]

Perhaps the first time this was mentioned it was going to be an interesting debate. Now having gone over it hundreds of times, what on earth would make this interesting anymore? Everyone knows where everyone stands on this. They are both gone, both have been done to death, surely it doesn't need another thread.

 

If it was been done already then I apologise. I thought it might be a good debate since it is very similar to the one I make with my Liverpool life long fan dad every time the Rafa subject is brought up.

 

Either way, I have not seen a thread with this title before.

[TheResonator]

Hahahaha.

 

Rafa hits back at Houllier? What? After five years of the latter's comments when the former is no longer in charge of the team? What's the point of all this?

 

I don't really even know what to say. This entire event is bemusing.

[Jonny83]

Any manager who does anything in his first season at a new club will do so with a squad made up primarily of players bought or brought through under the previous long-term manager.

 

I have a lot of time for both of our two previous proper managers, but the question has to be would Houllier have won the CL that year if he'd have still been in charge?

[WhiskeyJar]

Well, a combination of things really.

 

1) Slight despair that two of our former managers, both of whom brought significant success to our club, continue a spat that has stretched back for almost 6 years now.

 

2) Another Rafa thread.

 

 

EDIT - DJLJ far quicker off the mark than me.

 

Oh ok...so just because its a Rafa thread it means that it is not an interesting point??

 

Look like I said before, this matter is being a subject of a great debate within my family, so when I saw it I thought I might share it. I dont mean to wind people up or make ANOTHER Rafa thread because I felt like it.

 

It is part of my family debate, if I cant share it with a forum website where I have been posting for the best part of 3 years, then with who can I??

[Antynwa]

In short no.

 

But it raises the point of influence on success with teams. I mean to completely ignore any influence, positive or otherwise previous managers have on squads would be a load of shite.

 

Houllier had an influence, it wasn't his team. But had he not bought Dudek and nurtured Gerrard into the player he is today then Istanbul wouldn't have happened. You could look at it that way I suppose I.E Thank fuck he signed x,y,z.

 

Lets put it another way. If we finish fourth, would Kenny have done that with Rafa's team or his own?

[a stoner]

I don't care anymore. We won it, end of. Who did what when doesn't matter now it's 6 YEARS AGO. Houllier and Benitez are now ex-managers and should SHUT THE FUCK UP AND MOVE ON.

[Code]

The answer is pretty straight forward, yes Rafa won the CL with mostly Houllier`s players but he added a few vital players himself like Josemi for instance.

 

Later Rafa sold most of Houlliers players and we won less.

 

Should GH get the credit for our CL win, should he fuck, the credit goes to Rafa and the players, Rafa for being a good coach and getting the best out of a fairly good balanced but thin squad gathered by someone else and the players for fighting back when everything looked lost like at home against Olympiakos and the second half in Istanbul.

[WhiskeyJar]

In short no.

Lets put it another way. If we finish fourth, would Kenny have done that with Rafa's team or his own?

 

Okay say this: Players from a previous regime Vs Tactics on the night...who takes more credit for the win against any said team on that specific night??

[Code]

Okay say this: Players from a previous regime Vs Tactics on the night...who takes more credit for the win against any said team on that specific night??

 

The players won it, the tactics almost lost it.

[Red Banjo]

Whoooooooaaaaaah there

 

[Hand Shandy]

 

The answer is pretty straight forward, yes Rafa won the CL with mostly Houllier`s players but he added a few vital players himself like Josemi for instance.

 

Later Rafa sold most of Houlliers players and we won less.

 

Should GH get the credit for our CL win, should he fuck, the credit goes to Rafa and the players, Rafa for being a good coach and getting the best out of a fairly good balanced but thin squad gathered by someone else and the players for fighting back when everything looked lost like at home against Olympiakos and the second half in Istanbul.

 

 

Forget Libya! Fuck Fukishima!

 

Code said something nice about Rafa!

[WhiskeyJar]

The players won it, the tactics almost lost it.

 

So Dietmar Hamann coming on was a result of a player coming on without the consent of the manager??

[Hand Shandy]

The players won it, the tactics almost lost it.

 

And the natural order is restored.

[Antynwa]

Okay say this: Players from a previous regime Vs Tactics on the night...who takes more credit for the win against any said team on that specific night??

 

Well you've got to look at it from lets say from a 'Garcia' point of view. Had we not got Garcia would we have not won the European Cup?

 

That year was decided on so many knife edges, from Gudjohnsons miss, to Gerrard v Olympiakos. I'm sure Steve Heighway had a few drinks that night and toasted his own success with Gerrard and Carra.

 

It would be harsh on Rafa to take away what he achieved that year, from the Juve game away, to Istanbul half time. He was the manager, he takes the credit. But football isn't about one man, one manager, one moment. It's a culmination of little things and little contributions.

 

Istanbul was beyond the norm. it wasn't about a well drilled work performance. It was years of work, moment of brilliance, moments of genius, shit loads of luck.

 

In short. Rafa was manager. He will go down as the European Cup winner Houllier won't.

[PaulMcC]

Rafa was the biggest reason we won CL in 2005.