1st March 2010

[The 5th Benitel]

Hasn't said what?

 

 

 

Yeah, that's really damning that is. A year ago somebody shouted a young lad down. I've experienced it myself. Doesn't mean that most people don't know. The ones that really matter now know. Match going fans, on the whole, know exactly what is going on.

 

Still, any chance of you answer the question or do I need to email one of the many different, but equally important, email addresses in order to get a response?

 

You've got to get your head around the fact most Liverpool fans dont come on boards like this and just dont give as much of a shit about LFC as people on here do. I live and work in Liverpool and there are plenty of fans who think people are making a mountain out of a molehill regarding the owners.

 

The only people who are going to make a genuine impact is the match goers so putting them up near the ground is absolutely the right thing to do. Sticking them up around Devon or Belfast might stop a few fans buying replica shits but that's about it. The higest concetration of fans who can actually make a difference will always be at Anfield on matchday. Did you see a load of people in Bristol with their green and gold scarfs on yesterday? Nope, but i bet loads of people at home will have noticed fans wearing them at Wembley.

 

And, most importantly, SoS are trying to do something in the complete absence of any other good ideas. You keep nitpicking while they try and make a difference. I'm not saying what they do is perfect but they are doing what they can to make an impact and i'll continue to support them with that.

[Fowlers God]

You've got to get your head around the fact most Liverpool fans dont come on boards like this and just dont give as much of a shit about LFC as people on here do. I live and work in Liverpool and there are plenty of fans who think people are making a mountain out of a molehill regarding the owners.

 

The only people who are going to make a genuine impact is the match goers so putting them up near the ground is absolutely the right thing to do. Sticking them up around Devon or Belfast might stop a few fans buying replica shits but that's about it. The higest concetration of fans who can actually make a difference will always be at Anfield on matchday. Did you see a load of people in Bristol with their green and gold scarfs on yesterday? Nope, but i bet loads of people at home will have noticed fans wearing them at Wembley.

 

And, most importantly, SoS are trying to do something in the complete absence of any other good ideas. You keep nitpicking while they try and make a difference. I'm not saying what they do is perfect but they are doing what they can to make an impact and i'll continue to support them with that.

 

Fucking hell we are desperate if we are selling replica shits.

[kopite1989]

You've got to get your head around the fact most Liverpool fans dont come on boards like this and just dont give as much of a shit about LFC as people on here do. I live and work in Liverpool and there are plenty of fans who think people are making a mountain out of a molehill regarding the owners.

 

The only people who are going to make a genuine impact is the match goers so putting them up near the ground is absolutely the right thing to do. Sticking them up around Devon or Belfast might stop a few fans buying replica shits but that's about it. The higest concetration of fans who can actually make a difference will always be at Anfield on matchday. Did you see a load of people in Bristol with their green and gold scarfs on yesterday? Nope, but i bet loads of people at home will have noticed fans wearing them at Wembley.

 

And, most importantly, SoS are trying to do something in the complete absence of any other good ideas. You keep nitpicking while they try and make a difference. I'm not saying what they do is perfect but they are doing what they can to make an impact and i'll continue to support them with that.

Well said...

[The 5th Benitel]

Fucking hell we are desperate if we are selling replica shits.

 

 

They made a wax work dummy of Babel as well as Gerrard.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I think part of the problem is not quite understanding your question.

 

Could you make it a little clearer and explain what it is you're after?

 

Cheers

 

 

I'd like to know...

 

What SoS (that's you fine young fellows) hope (feeling of belief that something good will happen) to achieve (the attainment of your desired objective) in telling (the passing of information in a descriptive way) people (fellow fans that are aware, but not yet fully) that don't know (a lack knowledge of...) 'much more' (a sum greater than...) than 'Hicks and Gillett are bad' (which is how PeeG described the fans in question - hence the quotations) that they 'Debt, Lies, Cowboys' (the slogan you've gone with to describe the ownership) are not welcome (something you've also written on the billboard)? What is the end game (your final objective. Your raison d'être) on a move (your chosen tactic or approach) like that (the act of informing fans that have partial, but not yet total knowledge)?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I jest, of course...

 

I want to know why you think converting some partially knowledgeable fans into slightly more knowledgeable fans ('Debt. Lies. Cowboys.' is hardly a deep education of the situation, is it!) will achieve in the long run? Ownership change? Apathy?

 

You're trying to educate people with a three word slogan a year and a half after it started appearing, in much more detail than the billboards, in the media. I don't see what you're aiming at here. Well, I do, I just don't see how it helps.

 

Most match going fans are knowledgeable about the ownership of the football club, at least to some degree. Telling people 'Debt. Lies. Cowboys' and telling them that Hicks and Gillett are not welcome is only repeating what some partially ignorant people already know. But lets assume that 'Debt. Lies. Cowboys' is some sort of Chuck style intersect slogan and instantly educates all those that see it, what does that do?

 

I'll take a punt and say that it makes them hate the owners even more. Great! I hate the cunts too. However, the owners clearly don't give a fuck who likes them or who doesn't, just as long as the money keeps, as it is, flowing into their pockets in order for them to pay back the loans they're using to buy our football club. So sure, post as many cryptic clues across forums, have as many important sounding email addresses as you like, throw as many parties as you can and organise as many buses as can be driven... it really isn't doing much towards sorting our football club out. That's my contention.

[Lucky Pierre]

Yeah, that's really damning that is. A year ago somebody shouted a young lad down. I've experienced it myself. Doesn't mean that most people don't know. The ones that really matter now know. Match going fans, on the whole, know exactly what is going on.

Lots of people on the kop this season have shouted down anti yank chants or deliberately started other chants to stop the protests.

['Kaka]

Think it's a good idea myself.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

You've got to get your head around the fact most Liverpool fans dont come on boards like this and just dont give as much of a shit about LFC as people on here do.

 

I accept, acknowledge and even preach that fact myself. However, these people, as you suggest in the next quotation of this post, don't really matter.

 

 

The only people who are going to make a genuine impact is the match goers

 

Exactly. Yet you don't think match goers know more than 'Debt. Lies. Cowboys'? Come on, man.

 

so putting them up near the ground is absolutely the right thing to do. Sticking them up around Devon or Belfast might stop a few fans buying replica shits but that's about it. The higest concetration of fans who can actually make a difference will always be at Anfield on matchday. Did you see a load of people in Bristol with their green and gold scarfs on yesterday? Nope, but i bet loads of people at home will have noticed fans wearing them at Wembley.

 

That's nothing to do with me. I've not mentioned putting billboards anywhere, so I'll leave that for the guys that have.

 

And, most importantly, SoS are trying to do something in the complete absence of any other good ideas. You keep nitpicking while they try and make a difference. I'm not saying what they do is perfect but they are doing what they can to make an impact and i'll continue to support them with that.

 

I've already spoken about the futility of just doing anything, just as long as it is something. The right things are what count, everything else is a waste of time and money.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Lots of people on the kop this season have shouted down anti yank chants or deliberately started other chants to stop the protests.

 

There are some, if fact I know some of them, but it isn't because they are ignorant. It's because they don't agree. Fuck those few, and they are only a few when you compare them with the rest.

 

None of that really matters, what will 'Debt. Lies. Cowboys' result in: a complete change of heart for those guys? I doubt it. Where does it play out, even if it did?

[navbasi]

Lots of people on the kop this season have shouted down anti yank chants or deliberately started other chants to stop the protests.

 

I'm not sure on this BUT.. maybe those "fans" think that during a game is the time to "Support" the team rather than have the anti yank chants.. Before, Half-time and after maybe their thinking behind their shouting down of people starting the anti chants...

[Lucky Pierre]

I'm not sure on this BUT.. maybe those "fans" think that during a game is the time to "Support" the team rather than have the anti yank chants.. Before, Half-time and after maybe their thinking behind their shouting down of people starting the anti chants...

These are probably mainly the same people booing Lucas off the pitch.

[redrosetints]

Again, I am no fan of the way SOS has operated in the past, but this is again some seriously impressive work. Keep it up.

 

To repeat, MUST have just signed up with Obamas strategist company and you're impressed by a poster ?

[Graham Smith]

I jest, of course...

 

I want to know why you think converting some partially knowledgeable fans into slightly more knowledgeable fans ('Debt. Lies. Cowboys.' is hardly a deep education of the situation, is it!) will achieve in the long run? Ownership change? Apathy?

 

The campaign is about profile raising and keeping the pressure on and also trying to keep the actual way we go about things "fresh".

 

We are aiming to get local and national coverage to keep the campaign in the public eye and to hopefully move those that were unaware to slightly aware, those slightly aware to more aware and those more aware to activists.

 

The coverage we hope to get should be a good return on the investment - a page in the Echo (over a period of time) or a national paper would be massively more than we have spent on this campaing and it is about punching above our financial weight through efforts like this.

 

It isn't going to succeed on its own but what it will do is continue the exposure we want, it will get back to the owners and it forms part of the whole "Not Welcome" campaign.

 

You're trying to educate people with a three word slogan a year and a half after it started appearing, in much more detail than the billboards, in the media. I don't see what you're aiming at here. Well, I do, I just don't see how it helps.

 

Most match going fans are knowledgeable about the ownership of the football club, at least to some degree. Telling people 'Debt. Lies. Cowboys' and telling them that Hicks and Gillett are not welcome is only repeating what some partially ignorant people already know. But lets assume that 'Debt. Lies. Cowboys' is some sort of Chuck style intersect slogan and instantly educates all those that see it, what does that do?

 

I'll take a punt and say that it makes them hate the owners even more. Great! I hate the cunts too. However, the owners clearly don't give a fuck who likes them or who doesn't, just as long as the money keeps, as it is, flowing into their pockets in order for them to pay back the loans they're using to buy our football club. So sure, post as many cryptic clues across forums, have as many important sounding email addresses as you like, throw as many parties as you can and organise as many buses as can be driven... it really isn't doing much towards sorting our football club out. That's my contention.

 

I don't know if you're a match goer but for once this has a relevance. If you are you will know that we have match goers who fall in to a number of categories - unconcerned, concerned but unworried, concerned but not motivated and concerned, worried and motivated (and all shades in between). Match goers have the crucial role to play in this in my view.

 

The campaign is about shifting opinion and it was never meant to be the be all and end all and a solution but it is a genuine (and I suspect) successful effort to buy more exposure locally and nationally.

 

Education as to our plight is crucial as opposition will grow and will eventually spill into the ground to a greater extent but first people have to be convinced.

 

The "cryptic" posts were another effort to just create a reaction and discussion - the whole idea didn't reach fruition for various reasons but profile raising in any legitimate form will continue without apology.

[redrosetints]

You've got to get your head around the fact most Liverpool fans dont come on boards like this and just dont give as much of a shit about LFC as people on here do. I live and work in Liverpool and there are plenty of fans who think people are making a mountain out of a molehill regarding the owners.

 

The only people who are going to make a genuine impact is the match goers so putting them up near the ground is absolutely the right thing to do. Sticking them up around Devon or Belfast might stop a few fans buying replica shits but that's about it. The higest concetration of fans who can actually make a difference will always be at Anfield on matchday. Did you see a load of people in Bristol with their green and gold scarfs on yesterday? Nope, but i bet loads of people at home will have noticed fans wearing them at Wembley.

 

And, most importantly, SoS are trying to do something in the complete absence of any other good ideas. You keep nitpicking while they try and make a difference. I'm not saying what they do is perfect but they are doing what they can to make an impact and i'll continue to support them with that.

 

Mate, you have got to get your head round the fact that this shouldnt be about educating the LFC fans. Yes its good for people to know, but that in itself wont change anything, we need to be doing what the Mancs have done and getting this moved from back page gossip to front page, headline news. The scarf thing has been mentioned on at least a few BBC and ITV news reports and its now accepted that some united fans wear Green and Gold to show their displeasure at the owners. it helps raise money to fight them properly, at their level and gives the group the credibility to enter talks on a peer to peer level with finance houses, banks etc.

 

That is the initial goal of the campaign, to legitimise them, give them credibility. Now they have achieved this the next step is to fight this at the Owners level, hence the fact they have enlisted Blue State Digital (BSD), the widely respected Washington-based internet strategy and technology firm. These are the guys who got Obama into the white house.

 

We, on the other hand, are still arguing about marches and posters. Once again its suits not boots that wil rid us of these idiots and the longer we take to become a creditable lobbying group the longer they can do what they are.

[redrosetints]

The campaign is about profile raising and keeping the pressure on and also trying to keep the actual way we go about things "fresh".

 

We are aiming to get local and national coverage to keep the campaign in the public eye and to hopefully move those that were unaware to slightly aware, those slightly aware to more aware and those more aware to activists.

 

The coverage we hope to get should be a good return on the investment - a page in the Echo (over a period of time) or a national paper would be massively more than we have spent on this campaing and it is about punching above our financial weight through efforts like this.

 

It isn't going to succeed on its own but what it will do is continue the exposure we want, it will get back to the owners and it forms part of the whole "Not Welcome" campaign.

 

 

 

I don't know if you're a match goer but for once this has a relevance. If you are you will know that we have match goers who fall in to a number of categories - unconcerned, concerned but unworried, concerned but not motivated and concerned, worried and motivated (and all shades in between). Match goers have the crucial role to play in this in my view.

 

The campaign is about shifting opinion and it was never meant to be the be all and end all and a solution but it is a genuine (and I suspect) successful effort to buy more exposure locally and nationally.

 

Education as to our plight is crucial as opposition will grow and will eventually spill into the ground to a greater extent but first people have to be convinced.

 

The "cryptic" posts were another effort to just create a reaction and discussion - the whole idea didn't reach fruition for various reasons but profile raising in any legitimate form will continue without apology.

 

Graham, have you seen mention of DLC, or even the SOS movement locally as a result of this or any action taken ? When the mancs play, the commentators always mention the G&G campaign, continuing to generate awareness, yet when we play or even march, we got zero exposure.

 

Seriously, which national paper is going to run anything on one poster in liverpool ?

[Randy Marsh]

Brilliant that, don't know what the moaning us about. Anything against them bastards is a good thing.

[Graham Smith]

Seriously, which national paper is going to run anything on one poster in liverpool ?

 

Let's see. And it's more than one poster.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Ah, bollocks. I typed a whole reply out to that and closed the fucking window. I shall return.

[redrosetints]

Let's see. And it's more than one poster.

 

i totally agree with your post above, where you say its about raising the profile of the campaign and keeping it raised. Again, thats the simplicitiy of the g&G scarves, as they are there, every game, so it keeps it topical and in the public eye, so far we have nothing like that.

 

I hope your right, but history suggests for us, that things just slip away. To do that is needs more the Barret and Bascombe to do articles, posting to footie fans many of whom wil already be aware to some degree, it needs to become mainstream.

[The 5th Benitel]

Mate, you have got to get your head round the fact that this shouldnt be about educating the LFC fans. Yes its good for people to know, but that in itself wont change anything, we need to be doing what the Mancs have done and getting this moved from back page gossip to front page, headline news. The scarf thing has been mentioned on at least a few BBC and ITV news reports and its now accepted that some united fans wear Green and Gold to show their displeasure at the owners. it helps raise money to fight them properly, at their level and gives the group the credibility to enter talks on a peer to peer level with finance houses, banks etc.

 

That is the initial goal of the campaign, to legitimise them, give them credibility. Now they have achieved this the next step is to fight this at the Owners level, hence the fact they have enlisted Blue State Digital (BSD), the widely respected Washington-based internet strategy and technology firm. These are the guys who got Obama into the white house.

 

We, on the other hand, are still arguing about marches and posters. Once again its suits not boots that wil rid us of these idiots and the longer we take to become a creditable lobbying group the longer they can do what they are.

 

I agree but how did the green and gold thing take off? The match goers got involved and it was getting tv coverage everytime they played. It's the match going fans who will provide a successful platform.

 

It's all well and good asking for a 'creditable' lobbying group while, and i include myself in this, sitting off and picking holes in the efforts of others. The green and gold thing was based on some priciples that SoS have used and other more successful ones they came up with themselves. What definately didn't help was people saying 'it's shit that' while doing nothing themselves.

 

And they're in a position to enlist the help of BSD but while people are nitpicking and finger pointing while contributing nothing constructive themselves there will never be the funds to do anything even remotely resembling that.

 

I'm not saying SoS are perfect but they represent our best hope so i think by far our best option is to unite behind them and offer constructive advice as to the best way forward. I certainly haven't got an answers but i'm sure they are out there amongst our fan base somewhere. This billboard campaign could be the first step towards this. If it isn't, at least they're trying.

[Anny Road]

There is only one way to get noticed and force their hand and that is by a match boycott. Organising it will be another matter however.

Imagine how an empty kop would look on the TV.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

 

I'm not saying SoS are perfect but they represent our best hope

 

Not for me, they don't.

[PaulMcC]

Not for me, they don't.

 

What's ouR best hope then?

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

What's ouR best hope then?

 

Purslow. As far as I'm concerned, short of SoS organising something that will have any effect whatsoever, then I see him as the only real hope of getting rid of the owners.

[The 5th Benitel]

Not for me, they don't.

 

 

 

What is then? Bare in mind the alternative would have to be something that actually exists.