Paul Anderson...

[navbasi]

yea carry on like we are and we'll do well to compete with notts forest.

 

bottom line is rafa's spent millions on shit when what we already had may have been just as bad but they were local and in the opinions of many one of these would have fought with more heart than all of the crap rafa's bought in combined

 

Complete shit. So let's just have 11 local lads running round is that it... The point which has already been made.. How many of those released have gone on to make it to the top? Very, very few. They may have heart, but not enough talent for the top end of the Premiership, let alone the bottom end.

[rage]

insua - fat, slow and no better than warnock

babel - fuck me remind me how much we spent on him?

riera - yea we bought him because babel wasn't good enough and then regardless of this good enough for spain shit (yea when silva is out he gets the odd game), have you seen the players he plays alongside? football is all about balance in a team, riera just adds to what we already have.

lucas - everything that is wrong about our football is displayed in lucas. how he keeps a 20 million pound italian international out of the team is baffling. at best it is that lucas is a better player, at worst its that rafa went and bought the wrong player in aquilani.

 

and just to remind you i'm not the knob that introduced this thing called 'true fans'

[navbasi]

Bet the Farris brothers are relishing all this money they'll be getting if we sold those players.

 

Yep, sell the 1st team, promote all the ressies to first team action, then everyone's happy. :whistle:

[rage]

Complete shit. So let's just have 11 local lads running round is that it... The point which has already been made.. How many of those released have gone on to make it to the top? Very, very few. They may have heart, but not enough talent for the top end of the Premiership, let alone the bottom end.

 

how many of the el zahr's letos, n'gogs, voronins etc go on to make it at the top level then?

[navbasi]

insua - fat, slow and no better than warnock

babel - fuck me remind me how much we spent on him?

riera - yea we bought him because babel wasn't good enough and then regardless of this good enough for spain shit (yea when silva is out he gets the odd game), have you seen the players he plays alongside? football is all about balance in a team, riera just adds to what we already have.

lucas - everything that is wrong about our football is displayed in lucas. how he keeps a 20 million pound italian international out of the team is baffling. at best it is that lucas is a better player, at worst its that rafa went and bought the wrong player in aquilani.

 

and just to remind you i'm not the knob that introduced this thing called 'true fans'

 

"True fans?" - I have no idea what you're talking about as I didn't mention anything of the sort.

 

Anyway, can you just answer the question that "I ASKED" - Which of the youth team players that have been released are better than the players that you have menetioned, I don't need to know if they are fat or slow.. I just need to know IYO which are better..

[navbasi]

how many of the el zahr's letos, n'gogs, voronins etc go on to make it at the top level then?

 

El Zhar, Ngog - Liverpool

Leto - Panathinaikos

Voronin - Dynamo Moscow

 

All pretty much top level if you ask me...

[Woo]

Yep, sell the 1st team, promote all the ressies to first team action, then everyone's happy. :whistle:

 

I hope you got the INXS joke in my post there as well....

[redrosetints]

Babel the Dutch international, like, is he better than Paul Andersen the up down player for Forest ? Come on. Andersen can be good, but can also go missing and seems a bit lightweight sometimes, sound like anyone else we know ? If a regular dutch international like babel can still suffer from lack of consistency, do we think a lad who is going through the same at Forest is likely to do better ?

 

We always get our knickers in a twist over youth players, understandably at times, because kids can look good but not kick on, the thought that surely one of them is good enough is alwyas there ? But the evidence of the past 10 years pulls up two things. Firstly, since Rafa came to the club, he's given MORE league debuts to home grown kids than Fergie. But it would be true to say Fergie gives more kids a go in the league cup etc. Strange as anyone who saw the league cup win over Spurs in the first season would think that Rafa would try them more often.

 

Second, while we do gnash our teeth over the latest 'unfairly treated youth team player' Welsh, Raven etc The mitigation for Raa and Ged is the dissapointing fact is, that our best youth team product in the last 10 years is probably Neil Mellor, who along with Guthrie, Hammil and Andersen now play in the championship. Meanwhile, United have the likes of Shawcross, Higginbotham, Greening, Simon Davies, Pique and Frazier Campbell who play for Premiership sides and of course Barca.

 

Uniteds youth system is second to none and though I know its not fashionable to suggest this, our youth setup needed a good shake up last year.

[navbasi]

Bet the Farris brothers are relishing all this money they'll be getting if we sold those players.

 

Hahaha! I didn't but got it.. Isn't Google great... For anyone else that "missed" it..

 

Formed in 1977 as the Farris Brothers, this group changed its name to INXS in 1979!

[navbasi]

Babel the Dutch international, like, is he better than Paul Andersen the up down player for Forest ? Come on. Andersen can be good, but can also go missing and seems a bit lightweight sometimes, sound like anyone else we know ? If a regular dutch international like babel can still suffer from lack of consistency, do we think a lad who is going through the same at Forest is likely to do better ?

 

We always get our knickers in a twist over youth players, understandably at times, because kids can look good but not kick on, the thought that surely one of them is good enough is alwyas there ? But the evidence of the past 10 years pulls up two things. Firstly, since Rafa came to the club, he's given MORE league debuts to home grown kids than Fergie. But it would be true to say Fergie gives more kids a go in the league cup etc. Strange as anyone who saw the league cup win over Spurs in the first season would think that Rafa would try them more often.

 

Second, while we do gnash our teeth over the latest 'unfairly treated youth team player' Welsh, Raven etc The mitigation for Raa and Ged is the dissapointing fact is, that our best youth team product in the last 10 years is probably Neil Mellor, who along with Guthrie, Hammil and Andersen now play in the championship. Meanwhile, United have the likes of Shawcross, Higginbotham, Greening, Simon Davies, Pique and Frazier Campbell who play for Premiership sides and of course Barca.

 

Uniteds youth system is second to none and though I know its not fashionable to suggest this, our youth setup needed a good shake up last year.

 

That's a great point.

[Kennys_spell]

El Zhar, Ngog - Liverpool

Leto - Panathinaikos

Voronin - Dynamo Moscow

 

All pretty much top level if you ask me...

 

N'gog has scored 7 goals this season - thats one less than the world class Morientes scored in forty odd games for us.

[redrosetints]

Ferguson gives these players chances then if they don't look the part they get shifted on. It's not as if all of them are as good as Fletcher or O'Shea, otherwise where are they now? Benitez gives chances to players and moves them on too. None of them are pulling up trees, so perhaps it's just that they weren't good enough?

 

The accusation here is that we dont give players a chance, but thats really not true. Fletcher and OShea are good examples of how Fergie does it, but they made their league debuts 6 and 7 years ago, the only lad to come through since then is Johnny Evans and in terms of this discussion, none of those three are full on home grown products, they all signed for united at 16 or 17. In the gap between Fletcher and Oshea coming though in 2002/03 and Evans, we've seen the likes of Potter, Kelly, Spearing, Darby, Mellor, Warnock, Welsh and Raven given a chance, genuine home grown players, who were played in the league. on top of that, the likes of Palletta, Insua, Ngog, Whitbread, Hobbs, El Zhar, Ecclsetone, Plessis, Ayala and Pacheco have played premier league games for us. Unfortunatley, these lads havent generally been deemed good enough.

 

Whats clear is that United, for the best part of 10 years, have managed to bring in the best kids at the 16 age group, which we have failed to do, as we haven't been recruiting in that area, we have tended to pick up kids earlier and see them through to 18. Its only been in the last couple of years we've started to actively recruit at that age group. While there may have been some bums signed in that time, we've also seen some promising young lads signed up like Pacheco, Dalle Valle, Ecclestone, Hobbs, Insua, Ngog, Ammoo who whilst not 'Scouse' are ours from 16 and who may prove useful addtions to the squad.

 

i think nowadays the chances of seeing a genuine home grown, through and through red are less, it will still happen, but the standard of the prem means its more difficult for them to make the jump up, unless they are extremely talented.

 

What smore likely is that we start to scout succesfully at the 16/17 age group and bir gin the best of those type of players.

[redrosetints]

insua - fat, slow and no better than warnock

babel - fuck me remind me how much we spent on him?

riera - yea we bought him because babel wasn't good enough and then regardless of this good enough for spain shit (yea when silva is out he gets the odd game), have you seen the players he plays alongside? football is all about balance in a team, riera just adds to what we already have.

lucas - everything that is wrong about our football is displayed in lucas. how he keeps a 20 million pound italian international out of the team is baffling. at best it is that lucas is a better player, at worst its that rafa went and bought the wrong player in aquilani.

 

and just to remind you i'm not the knob that introduced this thing called 'true fans'

 

In fairness Im pretty sure when fit Riera has been 1st choice for Spain, he was in the Euro 2008 tournie, keeping Silva and Mata out. he's been injured since and Mata is a little older, so maybe he's not 1st choice now ( i dont know), but it makes you think , if Reira keeps Silva out and many want us to spend 20m on Silva, just how good is he ?

 

Poor old Lucas, 6m on a brazilain player of the year at 18 and he's seen as shite. For 6m, i think he's been a good signing. Not what we'd want from a brazilian player of the year, granted and not what you'd want as a main midfielder for us, I grant you that too, but as a 3rd choice, i think he's a good buy, in a world where an older Cattermole goes for more money, then he isnt that bad.

 

(I dont know, just an observation!)

[rage]

the only things rafa's interested in taking care of are his bank balance and ego.

 

and when did lucas become 3rd choice? if he was 4th choice it wouldn't be so bad but come on even the rafa apologists can see lucas is first choice.

 

as for riera, we'll see at the world cup. best outcome is he has a stormer and we sell him off the back of that because in a liverpool shirt he's been far from good enough

[Kennys_spell]

the only things rafa's interested in taking care of are his bank balance and ego.

 

and when did lucas become 3rd choice? if he was 4th choice it wouldn't be so bad but come on even the rafa apologists can see lucas is first choice.

 

as for riera, we'll see at the world cup. best outcome is he has a stormer and we sell him off the back of that because in a liverpool shirt he's been far from good enough

 

OK, you've convinced me. You're opinion far outweigh's the opinion of a number of international and other trophy winning managers.

 

Thanks for putting me straight.

[Trucker Paddy]

In fairness Im pretty sure when fit Riera has been 1st choice for Spain, he was in the Euro 2008 tournie, keeping Silva and Mata out. !)

 

Riera was'nt even in the Euro 2008 squad.

 

Complete Euro 2008 Squads - Euro 2008

[navbasi]

the only things rafa's interested in taking care of are his bank balance and ego.

 

and when did lucas become 3rd choice? if he was 4th choice it wouldn't be so bad but come on even the rafa apologists can see lucas is first choice.

 

as for riera, we'll see at the world cup. best outcome is he has a stormer and we sell him off the back of that because in a liverpool shirt he's been far from good enough

 

I take it you're not going to bother answering the question that I've asked.. I'll try ONE more time.. Which of the players that have been released/sold by Rafa would have been better than the first team today?

[navbasi]

Riera was'nt even in the Euro 2008 squad.

 

Complete Euro 2008 Squads - Euro 2008

 

You're right. He did make the Confederations Cup and I would assume that he'd make the trip to the World Cup if he can stay fit for the remainder of the season.

[camdenred]

Simon Davies, Pique and Frazier Campbell who play for Premiership sides and of course Barca.

 

If its the Welsh international you're referring to then he came from Peterborough's youth set-up and was transferred to Spurs along with Matthew Etherington.

[rage]

I take it you're not going to bother answering the question that I've asked.. I'll try ONE more time.. Which of the players that have been released/sold by Rafa would have been better than the first team today?

 

in no particular order

 

alonso, bellamy, riise, hyypia, crouch, finnan, cisse, pongolle, kewell, murphy

 

all left because rafa wanted them out not because they wanted to leave

 

alonso > aquilani

murphy > lucshit

riise >insua and at least fitter than aurelio

hyypia > the greek

crouch > n'gog

finnan > degen although i'm better than degen

cisse > voronin and as a striker kuyt

pongolle > well i'm not sure who our 4th choice striker now is, pacheto maybe

kewell > riera

 

 

rafa's fucked the squad up, its plain for all to see

[rage]

OK, you've convinced me. You're opinion far outweigh's the opinion of a number of international and other trophy winning managers.

 

Thanks for putting me straight.

 

the league table doesn't lie

[navbasi]

in no particular order

 

alonso, bellamy, riise, hyypia, crouch, finnan, cisse, pongolle, kewell, murphy

 

all left because rafa wanted them out not because they wanted to leave

 

alonso > aquilani

murphy > lucshit

riise >insua and at least fitter than aurelio

hyypia > the greek

crouch > n'gog

finnan > degen although i'm better than degen

cisse > voronin and as a striker kuyt

pongolle > well i'm not sure who our 4th choice striker now is, pacheto maybe

kewell > riera

 

 

rafa's fucked the squad up, its plain for all to see

 

You're just making shit up now...

 

Alonso - we all know that between the two of them they fucked up.

 

Bellamy - I'll give you that, but I've heard the argument on here that we needed the money to fund the Torres deal.

 

Riise - I think you've forgotten how shite he was for the last couple of years

 

Hyypia - Legend. I'm sure if he knew that Carra/Agger/Sktrel were all going to start the season injured at some point and he would play more games than he/we envisaged he would have stayed. The Greek has been great whenever he has played.

 

Crouch - A player that was not willing to sit on the bench but prepared to do that at Spurs.

 

Finnan - How many games has he played since he left. He's been injured for the last couple of years.

 

Cisse - He runs fast.

 

Pongolle - I would have him here

 

Kewell - Oh fuck off please.

 

Murphy - He wanted to leave, another player at the time I remember told by Dario Gradi to sit and wait for his chance, he couldn't and missed out on a Champions League medal.

 

You're idea's are fucked up, its plain for all to see.

[redrosetints]

Riera was'nt even in the Euro 2008 squad.

 

Complete Euro 2008 Squads - Euro 2008

 

Ha, cheers Ritchie. Was

he injured then ?

 

He's defo been first choice since and possibly in the concederations cup, as i was surprised and expected to see Mata or Silva.

[Ted]

Silva was just coming back from injury at the Confederation's Cup.

 

Just because he's first choice for Spain, it doesn't excuse how concistently abject his performances are.

 

He's an empty shirt in about 7 out of 10 games he plays.

[redrosetints]

Silva was just coming back from injury at the Confederation's Cup.

 

Just because he's first choice for Spain, it doesn't excuse how concistently abject his performances are.

 

He's an empty shirt in about 7 out of 10 games he plays.

 

I agree, Ted. The obvious question then though is, how good is Silva ?