School Punishments Ain't What they Used to Be

[Section_31]

I'd be interested to hear Paul and Sutty's views on this.

 

My mate works in a primary school in Liverpool, he's always wanted that career and loved it at first, but he said he's seriously thinking about packing it in. He reckons there's two young lads there - one in particular - who he describes as "extremely violent". He reckons one in particular just turns up and knocks shit out of a random kid every day, gets bollocked, then does the same the next day.

 

He reckons the head is 'scared' of expelling them because it's a 'legal minefield'.

 

He said the parents aren't arsed, and that the staff have arguements about it in the staff room all the time because they're that frustrated with it all.

 

A second ago, I had a text off another mate who's a secondary school teacher, and he said two lads have been caught smoking weed - and sent home for the day - that's all.

 

The last one sounds trivial (does it? Sign of the times I suppose!) but isn't that how it starts?!? Getting away with shit like that at that stage of your life is going to come back and haunt someone somewhere down the line I reckon.

 

My secondary school teacher mate seems to get by on his witts from what I can tell, by cutting deals "do your work and I'll let you play on the WII". And was once told while helping with a PE lesson "If they decide to walk out of school don't bother arguing with them, it's not worth it."

 

Seems to be very little authority, respect, or indeed a healthy dollop of fear there from what I can see, admitedly from a distance.

[Acid]

My mum is a secondary school teacher and has packed it in once already because the school she was at had no control over the kids. She got no backing from the head of department or head of year or school either.

[aws]

I blame the teachers. And the parents. And rap music.

 

Particularly teachers who are parents and like rap music.

[Liverpool lad]

Kids are untouchable now and teachers seem to be limited in what they can do. Until the balance of power is altered there is fuck all that will happen. In my old school, it took forever to throw a problem child out

[Hand Shandy]

I blame the teachers. And the parents. And rap music.

 

Particularly teachers who are parents and like rap music.

 

When aws is good (which to be fair is most of the time) he's very, very good.

[Stu Monty]

You got to lay down the law on the first day. You know that scene in the Untouchables with the baseball bat...well that sort of move shows the little cunts who's in charge.

[rondeco]

They should create a class where they take the kids who are violent and refuse to co-operate and teach them how to socialise first and then they'll be able to integrate into 'normal' class and not disrupt it. They could be called 'corner kids'. They wouldn't be allowed to get expelled or anything like that. Its completely different and something that I thought up all by myself..

[Paul]

I blame the teachers. And the parents. And rap music.

 

Particularly teachers who are parents and like rap music.

Ha, ha! Me too.

[RobbieOR]

If people are caught with weed(and it happens) they get fucked out straight away. No hearing nothing.

[Carradona]

If people are caught with weed(and it happens) they get fucked out straight away. No hearing nothing.

 

Not in my old school. 3 people got caught smoking weed on a sports day. 2 of them were advised to leave the school and find another one (so it didn't look as bas as being expelled) and the other guy got to stay without any punishment.

[Woo]

See, if we had more of those shootings like you have in America, we wouldn't have problems like this. But rather than some freaky school kid doing the shooting, we can get MI5 in, all classy and shit. OFSTED would fucking love that.

[Paul]

Teaching is a highly skilled profession when done right. Controlling even the nuttiest of loons is always possible in the modern, no corporal punishment context if you have the skills. However, weak leadership can undermine even the best teachers and it can certainly exacerbate the problems of the worst. If you look at the best schools, they have head teachers who balance the needs of the individual child (because no head worthy of the name would permanently exclude without serious justification - the consequences are horrendous for the child and, by extension, society as a whole) with those of the many and aren't afraid to make tough decisions. Those heads generally exclude (usually temporarily, but also permanently when required) the worst behaved kids. However, they also deal with the poor teachers, too. Shit schools under weak heads do neither and therefore the classroom experience for kids in the school becomes a lottery and the working environment for staff becomes, for some, hellish.

 

Some shit heads cite all kinds of bullshit excuses as to why they can't do anything (finance, quotas, Ofsted and the like) about poor behaviour, but they always can. The fact is they just don't have the balls to do it. And this type of strong leadership can still be inclusive leadership, too. It does not just have to be about keeping the nice middle class kids who make your league tables look good. Even the toughest kids almost always want to learn - poor behaviour in about 98% of instances is just about finding out where the line is. Once kids know where the line is, they almost always behave. The tiny minority who don't have such myriad issues that they shouldn't be in mainstream education anyway - but it is a tiny minority; about 1%, even in the most challenging of schools/communities.

[Unrighteous]

Let the faculty beat their students. Situation solved.

[Fugitive]

Go in armed with a Baseball bat and when someone starts twat the bat against a thick book placed on a table. It makes a fuck load of noise and will make the little fuckers jump. Then give them a bollocking and tell them to shut up and sit the fuck down.

[aws]

Agree with Paul

 

A fish rots from the head first.

 

What's a collective name for fish?

 

It can't be a coincidence.

[Paul]

Let the faculty beat their students. Situation solved.

 

Go in armed with a Baseball bat and when someone starts twat the bat against a thick book placed on a table. It makes a fuck load of noise and will make the little fuckers jump. Then give them a bollocking and tell them to shut up and sit the fuck down.

I can assure you that there is absolutely no need whatsoever to use physical punishment - or even its implied use - of any sort in order to control children - and I include the most extreme cases. Even within exceptionally challenging circumstances, tough kids can be well taught by skilled teachers providing the ethos of the school's head is right.

[RobbieOR]

I disagree Paul. Kids will act the cunt no matter what any teacher says.

[Hermes]

 

What's a collective name for fish?

 

It can't be a coincidence.

 

No, it's a school.

 

A "coincidence of fish" would just sound crazy.

[Woo]

I disagree Paul. Kids will act the cunt no matter what any teacher says.

 

Well if a teacher said "If you don't stop 'acting the cunt', I'll murder you, and your family, and if you tell anyone I've said this, I'll fucking kill you, you little shit!" There's a good chance the kid in question might listen.

[Paul]

I disagree Paul. Kids will act the cunt no matter what any teacher says.

I'm speaking from personal experience mate.

[Fugitive]

This may or may not be a possible to do but...

 

Kidnap Michael Jackson and keep him in a Cupboard. Whenever somebody plays up, throw them in the Cupboard and let Jacko work his magic on the little cunt.

 

That will be the last time they try and fuck around with you.

[Brodie]

Currently training to be a teacher and as such I am in touch with 30 odd student teachers in a similar situation. The common consensus amongst us all from our experiences this year is that the problems seem to lie with the management of the schools.

 

Teachers trying to address antisocial behaviour are more often than not, not backed up by the schools management teams, and as such feel they are wasting their time when raising problems. At my first placement one a newly qualified teacher was assaulted whilst I was there, the child in question was sent home for the day and allowed back in school the next day as she had problems at home. Whilst I don't doubt that she had external issues to deal with, it sends out the wrong messages to the pupils when they see this happen, and gives them carte blanche to do what they want.

 

So the answer in my opinion is stronger management of schools with more support, percieved and real, for the teaching staff.

[Hermes]

Currently training to be a teacher and as such I am in touch with 30 odd student teachers

 

Don't worry, that's just the nature of the people applying for the job.

[Paul]

Currently training to be a teacher and as such I am in touch with 30 odd student teachers in a similar situation. The common consensus amongst us all from our experiences this year is that the problems seem to lie with the management of the schools.

 

Teachers trying to address antisocial behaviour are more often than not, not backed up by the schools management teams, and as such feel they are wasting their time when raising problems. At my first placement one a newly qualified teacher was assaulted whilst I was there, the child in question was sent home for the day and allowed back in school the next day as she had problems at home. Whilst I don't doubt that she had external issues to deal with, it sends out the wrong messages to the pupils when they see this happen, and gives them carte blanche to do what they want.

 

So the answer in my opinion is stronger management of schools with more support, percieved and real, for the teaching staff.

I totally agree - to a point. It cuts both ways, though. There is a minority of teachers that is entirely unsuited to the profession and should never have been allowed to qualify. They need removing and a good head will be just as thorough in dealing with staff as with backing them. Not all poor teachers need the bullet mind (although some quite clearly do); many could be improved by genuine support and professional development.

[Brodie]

Strangely enough, the minority of the staff you refer to, in my experience so far, seem to be the older staff who have now found themselves in positions of power within the schools, as heads of departments, which compounds the problem.

 

Although that said, the benefits of teaching do seem to attract those that are there for the stability and benefits rather than the profession itself, and there are several members of my course that I wouldnt want teaching my children.