Kuyts work rate big fuckin deal

[Brownie]

When you think about it though, the groans only happen when a player does something poorly, on a consistent basis.

 

Every player makes silly mistakes at times, just look at Torres' 'cross' the other day when he totally sliced it into the Kop! When it becomes a regular occurence though, that's when people get frustrated.

 

I don't think it's a conscious thing either, as Hamstrung said, it's just a natural frustration at what you see as a consistent problem.

 

Kuyt and Benayoun suffer from it because people pretty much know what they're going to do and when they're going to do, that it's so frustrating to see. It obviously affects players and in an ideal world there would be silence when a mistake is repeated, but that's not really feesible I don't think.

[Stu Monty]

When you think about it though, the groans only happen when a player does something poorly, on a consistent basis.

 

Every player makes silly mistakes at times, just look at Torres' 'cross' the other day when he totally sliced it into the Kop! When it becomes a regular occurence though, that's when people get frustrated.

 

I don't think it's a conscious thing either, as Hamstrung said, it's just a natural frustration at what you see as a consistent problem.

 

Kuyt and Benayoun suffer from it because people pretty much know what they're going to do and when they're going to do, that it's so frustrating to see. It obviously affects players and in an ideal world there would be silence when a mistake is repeated, but that's not really feesible I don't think.

 

Or people getting shouted down for supporting someone for doing something well, as someone, I can't remember who, mentioned earlier today. Even taking away the debate about whether people are waiting for a chance to jump on the scapegoats, I think they are but that's not really the point I want to get at, the treatment of Kuyt shows how hollow a lot of the voices singing YNWA really are and how little it actually means.

[Kevin D]

You don't think you're going completly over the top?

[Brownie]

Or people getting shouted down for supporting someone for doing something well, as someone, I can't remember who, mentioned earlier today. Even taking away the debate about whether people are waiting for a chance to jump on the scapegoats, I think they are but that's not really the point I want to get at, the treatment of Kuyt shows how hollow a lot of the voices singing YNWA really are and how little it actually means.

 

Well I agree with Paul and think you're being a bit harsh towards the greater majority. Football is all about opinions at the end of the day and some people aren't going to rate players that others will.

 

I don't think Kuyt is being treated poorly at all. There aren't any chants or anything is there? Just a few groans when he makes a mistake, which to be fair he has began to make a habit of.

 

I agree that it's not a great situation but it's always been the way. Momo had it, so did Garcia, and Morientes.... the list is endless, mate. Just because it's Dirk doesn't mean you have to throw your toys out of the pram bud!

[Stu Monty]

I'm not throwing anything out the pram. I'm just chewing the cud about some stuff. Brownie mate, if you don't think there are people hanging on every touch waiting to give the lad shit then fair enough but I think the boards are all the evidence you need. The point stands that singing a song about helping each other through a storm rings hollow given the shit some people are happy to dish out to the lad.

 

Whether you rate the lad or not there's "supporters" who have been taking any slight opportunity to kick him and playing with any stats they can to make him look bad. It's just sad in my opinion, especially given his conduct and professionalism has always been superb throughout his stay.

[Brownie]

I'm not throwing anything out the pram. I'm just chewing the cud about some stuff. Brownie mate, if you don't think there are people hanging on every touch waiting to give the lad shit then fair enough but I think the boards are all the evidence you need. The point stands that singing a song about helping each other through a storm rings hollow given the shit some people are happy to dish out to the lad.

 

Whether you rate the lad or not there's "supporters" who have been taking any slight opportunity to kick him and playing with any stats they can to make him look bad. It's just sad in my opinion, especially given his conduct and professionalism has always been superb throughout his stay.

 

I'm sure there are some people out there who are waiting for him to make a mistake. I wouldn't say there's anything malicious in it though, other than the fact that people like to be proven correct I suppose?

 

I just think it's a bit harsh to, sort of, question the morals of millions of people who love the notion of 'never walking alone' just because they don't rate a player? Does YNWA actually mean that you can't become frustrated with a player and decide that he isn't good enough to be playing for the club, despite his fantastic work rate and exempliary attitude?

 

Personally I don't think that's the case, but everybody is different I suppose. I see YNWA as a symbolic song which lets the team know that we'll always be there for them. We might not rate every single one of them, but we'll still be there when results aren't going to plan etc.

[Torvald Utne]

welcome to contradiction city

[stringvest]

welcome to contradiction city

 

it's not contradictory - it's just how it is. If the team was full of players who worked really hard but made mistake after mistake, with the result that we couldn't pass the ball, kept fucking up in defence, and missing catches and saves, we might get relegated. At what point is it fair to have a moan? My beef on this one isn't with Kuyt at all - it's not his fault. Benitez bought him and plays him every game - often, imo, to the detriment of the team. I can't dislike Kuyt, he puts everything into the games, and he never lets his head go down (though I can't think of anyone else in the team that does either). The frustration and the moans at the game are ultimately at Benitez for playing him through periods of poor form.

[King Emlyn]

One of the problems i think is the money that is in the game, i honestly do. Like has been stated, this kind of thing has gone on since the year dot, however the money that is now being earned by players as opposed to your average paying supporter is bound to have an effect on the tolerance levels. How many times for example have you heard "60 fucking grand a week for that" obviously this point is not exclusive but it certainly doesn't help.

[the walsh]

kuyt is a average player even at centre forward he would not get in to the mancs or chelski side he along with benayoun are just not up to it where stuck with them cause we cant afford anybody else

[ATXRED]

I'm sure there are some people out there who are waiting for him to make a mistake. I wouldn't say there's anything malicious in it though, other than the fact that people like to be proven correct I suppose?

 

I just think it's a bit harsh to, sort of, question the morals of millions of people who love the notion of 'never walking alone' just because they don't rate a player? Does YNWA actually mean that you can't become frustrated with a player and decide that he isn't good enough to be playing for the club, despite his fantastic work rate and exempliary attitude?

 

Personally I don't think that's the case, but everybody is different I suppose. I see YNWA as a symbolic song which lets the team know that we'll always be there for them. We might not rate every single one of them, but we'll still be there when results aren't going to plan etc.

 

I think Stu has a problem with the particular vitriol some of the posters speak about Kuyt. It one thing to debate why you feel a player is not good enough, it's another to call him a cunt. The latter should not be accepted at all, as Kuyt has done nothing to deserve personal insults. The former should be encouraged, as it should when any player is not playing to the high standard we expect.

 

Kuyt, for all his short comings, is a professional who presents a positive public image of the club. Yet, his technical ability does not warrant a place in the starting 11. I'd like to see someone come in on the right, and Kuyt to become a squad player. It's not up to him whether he starts or not, unless you expect him to quit working hard in training, which is ridiculous.

[Dougie Do'ins]

kuyt is a average player even at centre forward he would not get in to the mancs or chelski side he along with benayoun are just not up to it where stuck with them cause we cant afford anybody else

So lets all turn up and give them none stop abuse for the whole time there playing in a red shirt.

[philyhamann]

Oh well, thats alright then. :whistle:

 

Yes it is. Its a normal fucking reaction, you're not going to stand up and start going "well done for trying lad" or cheer everytime it happens - especially when its a player who does it on a regular basis.

[Torvald Utne]

Yes it is. Its a normal fucking reaction, you're not going to stand up and start going "well done for trying lad" or cheer everytime it happens - especially when its a player who does it on a regular basis.

 

and if we lose a couple of games I think we should all shout "you don't know what you're doing" at benitez.

[JMARKH]

So lets all turn up and give them none stop abuse for the whole time there playing in a red shirt.

 

no one does that as far as I know, most people who think kuyt isn't good enough to get first team starts admire his commitment.

[Guest benp]

Whoever came up with the tag "torres wears kuyt pyjamas" deserves a street named after them.

 

Genius.

[Brownie]

I think Stu has a problem with the particular vitriol some of the posters speak about Kuyt. It one thing to debate why you feel a player is not good enough, it's another to call him a cunt. The latter should not be accepted at all, as Kuyt has done nothing to deserve personal insults. The former should be encouraged, as it should when any player is not playing to the high standard we expect.

 

Kuyt, for all his short comings, is a professional who presents a positive public image of the club. Yet, his technical ability does not warrant a place in the starting 11. I'd like to see someone come in on the right, and Kuyt to become a squad player. It's not up to him whether he starts or not, unless you expect him to quit working hard in training, which is ridiculous.

 

There's no doubt that certain people on here have said some things about him which are unacceptable. I don't think Dirk is good enough by any means, but referring to him as a 'cunt' or anything like that is disgraceful and shouldn't be tolerated.

 

I've never seen Kuyt called a cunt at the match though. I've seen other players, such as Gerrard, called a cunt at the match but that's just how it is. Some people just don't take to certain players and will have their say because of it. It's unacceptable and horrible to hear but that will always be the way in football.

 

I just don't agree with Stu questioning 'YNWA' as a song or ethos on the back of a minority of people from internet forums and the odd plank at the match. I think it's an over-reaction.

[Creator Supreme]

Whoever came up with the tag "torres wears kuyt pyjamas" deserves a street named after them.

 

Genius.

 

They need a fucking psychiatric ward named after them more like!!!

 

He's a fucking carthorse, not his fault, but the fact remains.

 

There's only one place Kuyt should be playing - fucking Feyenoord!!

[ATXRED]

...I just don't agree with Stu questioning 'YNWA' as a song or ethos on the back of a minority of people from internet forums and the odd plank at the match. I think it's an over-reaction.

 

Agreed.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Dirk is a fucking hero. Obviously he's not Torres and he's not Gerrard (but then again, who is? I can only think of two.) But he is a more-than-useful striker and a really good right-sided midfielder. Anyone who denies this is wrong and they smell of cabbage.

 

You can't say "big deal" about someone's workrate when they've just scored a 118th minute goal.

[kopitegaz]

Yes it is. Its a normal fucking reaction, you're not going to stand up and start going "well done for trying lad" or cheer everytime it happens - especially when its a player who does it on a regular basis.

 

I know that. Considering the shit you posted about Riise after the first leg of the Chelsea Semi.

 

Strangely enough, everyone does go "well done for trying lad" if one of the top players in the team (Gerrard, Torres or Carra) makes a mistake. Which is fine, but its not evenly done. The scapegoats of the team always get shit if they misplace a pass, etc. I know Gerrard wasnt 100% fit on Wednesday, but he made some shocking passes and got his name sung. Thats great as it shows support for him, but if the likes of Yossi or Dirk misplace a pass they get shit. Its not right.

[Dougie Do'ins]

no one does that as far as I know, most people who think kuyt isn't good enough to get first team starts admire his commitment.

If it hadn't been for the fact some of our so called fans had Liverpool shirts on, on Wednesday I'd have thought they were blues. The amount of abusive bile shouted at Dirk and others was fucking embarrassing.

 

I've never seen Kuyt called a cunt at the match though.

I refer the right honorable gentleman to the reply I gave above.

[Anubis]

When you think about it though, the groans only happen when a player does something poorly, on a consistent basis.

It would be nice if that were true mate, but I was stood in front of some whoppers who were on Kuyt's back from the first whistle, and one stood to the side of me - my dad! I think he's a very public whipping boy at the moment. I thought Yossi stank the place out on Wed, but never once did it occur to me to moan at him in the ground. Quite the opposite, when he fluffed that shot in the first half I clapped and vocally encouraged him to try again (not that he could hear me!). I'm sure yourself, and most on here, are the same, but a lot aren't.

[KevieG]

I think Stu has a problem with the particular vitriol some of the posters speak about Kuyt. It one thing to debate why you feel a player is not good enough, it's another to call him a cunt.

 

But who is calling him a cunt? I'm not his biggest fan, and don't think he is good enough for the team, but I always try to maintain my criticisms to football, he has good points and bad points and IMO his bad ones on the whole outweigh the good. Thats my opinion and the opinion of plenty of people here.

For the record I think Benny and Arbeloa are similarly weak links but here's the catch; I think a great deal of the antipathy, if you could even call it that, comes from this anti-hero status that he has been given by lots of people on this board. I know this kind of happens with a lot of players who aren't up to scratch(eg Biscan, Traore), but when you have a signifcant body of people on this website saying his is a legend and a phenomenal player you are bound to get a reaction from those who think otherwise. I think the reason you don't get the same level of debate regarding Yossi is because he doesn't have a fan club routinely proclaiming demi-god status even after poor performances and because he isn't one of the first names on the teamsheet.

 

There are as many Dirk is great threads as there are Dirk is shit ones and as long as people put forward footballing opinions I don't see that as a problem.

[Trucker Paddy]

Either way looks like were stuck with Dirk, Voronin and Pennant for the forseeable future!