1st round CL Qualify

[Skidfingers McGonical]

This is all FA's fault, or merit. I bet FA are celebrating now as their main goal all this time have been to put the preassure over to the UEFA and make them take the hard decisions. FA has put the UEFA in the vice, and the winners are FA (5 english teams in the competition) and Everton (the obvious alternative was Liverpool as the 4th english team).

 

The loosers are UEFA (their regulations have been tested and found out, and they had to make the unpopular decisions) and Liverpool (who should've had the 'Real' way into the competition). After FA made their pre-final statement that they were giving the 4th english spot to Everton no matter what, Liverpool became winners (no thanks to FA) in terms of being allowed back into the competition).

 

If there is someone who deserves stick it's FA, not UEFA.

 

All this said, we just have to deal with it and prepare for a bussy summer. If I could choose between 3 qualifying rounds for CL, or no CL at all, I'd take the 3 qualifying rounds every time.

 

 

Said with such common sense.

 

I am not overjoyed at the decision but we have just gotta take iton the chin adn stop sounding like those bitter bastards over the park.

 

It is another challenge for Rafa toprove himself, just starting a little earlier than we had hoped. I hate pre season games anyway,atleast this will be a competitive challenge, instead of playing in the mercantile credit tournament(anyone remember that)

[Red Nick]

Said with such common sense.

 

I am not overjoyed at the decision but we have just gotta take iton the chin adn stop sounding like those bitter bastards over the park.

 

It is another challenge for Rafa toprove himself, just starting a little earlier than we had hoped. I hate pre season games anyway,atleast this will be a competitive challenge, instead of playing in the mercantile credit tournament(anyone remember that)

 

its very simple isnt it we cancel our japan tour or send the reserves over there and field a reserve team in the supercup and then we have a pre-season of 6 warm up games which is less than we normally have, its no major deal as rafa will still have time for his training camp before the first game

 

in fact the japanese tour was probably a bad idea anyway so in a strange way Uefa might have done us a favour.

[kop]

its very simple isnt it we cancel our japan tour or send the reserves over there and field a reserve team in the supercup and then we have a pre-season of 6 warm up games which is less than we normally have, its no major deal as rafa will still have time for his training camp before the first game

 

in fact the japanese tour was probably a bad idea anyway so in a strange way Uefa might have done us a favour.

 

If we are approaching it in that manner we are looking at two, four tops, before we are out of it.

 

Getting fit for these 6 games is going to demand a hell of a lot from our players, both physical and psychical. If we are lucky we get a push-over team from the first pot, and maybe from the second. There are no bad teams in the third pot.

[Red Nick]

If we are approaching it in that manner we are looking at two, four tops, before we are out of it.

 

Getting fit for these 6 games is going to demand a hell of a lot from our players, both physical and psychical. If we are lucky we get a push-over team from the first pot, and maybe from the second. There are no bad teams in the third pot.

 

the third round we would have had to play if we had finished 4th anyway.

[Erik T]

its very simple isnt it we cancel our japan tour or send the reserves over there and field a reserve team in the supercup and then we have a pre-season of 6 warm up games which is less than we normally have, its no major deal as rafa will still have time for his training camp before the first game

 

in fact the japanese tour was probably a bad idea anyway so in a strange way Uefa might have done us a favour.

 

But these "warm up games" are games we presumably cannot afford to lose, which means that Rafa shouldn't experiment with new systems, new players etc. like I think he would have done if the games meant nothing.

[Erik T]

the third round we would have had to play if we had finished 4th anyway.

 

Yes, but we are Champions so strictly speaking we should go directly into the Group Stage. Arsenal and Man U should play in the 3rd round, and Everton should be sent to the UEFA cup.

[kop]

the third round we would have had to play if we had finished 4th anyway.

 

Yes but we wouldn've approached it like a warm up game. My point is we now have to be up for it from the first match, not the 5th. If not we're out of it before you can say "Champions of Europe".

[Red Nick]

Yes, but we are Champions so strictly speaking we should go directly into the Group Stage. Arsenal and Man U should play in the 3rd round, and Everton should be sent to the UEFA cup.

 

that i agree with 100% and i hope Liverpool ask the FA to reconsider there decision and not nominate Everton

[Stu Monty]

Tell me this people. How can representatives from a rival club have a deciding vote in who enters the competition? Is there a more glaring example of conflict of interest than David Dien deciding who gets access to the big cash pot and prestige the Euro Cup brings?

 

The FA are a fucking farce. The decision to put everton in and presure Uefa into putting us in too was an astute one from them as an organisation as it is good for English football (we will qualify and it gives an outside chance of 5 english teams in the groups) but to have the FA run by members of premiership boards is simple negligent.

[Dirk]

Without country protection we could effectively have a group like this:

 

Liverpool Chelsea Everton, A N Other

or

Liverpool Arsenal Everton, A N Other

 

No, it's not possible. The other teams are country protected. There could be two English teams, either Liverpool and Everton or Chelsea according to SSN. We can't draw Man Ure or Arsenal.

[Captain]

Not COMPLETELY wrong, surely? We did blow it, and UEFA should have forseen this after 2000. I know what you're getting at, though - the rules are that the FA have to submit 4 team for the CL. The problem is that until about March of this year it was assumed the top 4 would go through - the vast majority ASSUMED this was actually a rule. Perhaps the real problem was that there wasn't a rule, but a situation that was left to the FA's interpretation. That way someone is always going to be upset - in this case, either Liverpool or Everton.

Yes, COMPLETELY wrong. Until about March the exact opposite of what you suggest was assumed! People were even talking on this board about how sweet it would be to deny Everton the CL-spot in that exact way! The FA themselves even suggested as much when they clarified the rules on their web site last spring. Even though they claimed it was not an official statement, it's all they've ever said on this situation until their horrendous decision this spring.

 

We didn't blow it! We even came back from the dead to do it! WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS! It's so far from blowing it as you can possibly get!

 

The real problem was that the FA made the wrong decision - it really is that simple. Uefa's Executive Comittee today made sure the FA, or any other national association for that matter, will never be allowed to take that (wrong) decision again.

[Captain]

the third round we would have had to play if we had finished 4th anyway.

No, had we managed fourth spot we would have taken our rightful place as title holders - directly into the group stage as top dogs.

[Captain]

Yes, but we are Champions so strictly speaking we should go directly into the Group Stage. Arsenal and Man U should play in the 3rd round, and Everton should be sent to the UEFA cup.

This is incorrect. Had the FA chosen us and not Everton, only Man U would have entered the competition in QR3. Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal would have gone directly into the group stage.

 

There is a separate spot for the title holders, that is why. Noone is relegated from the group stage into QR3 to accomodate the holders.

[Captain]

This is all FA's fault, or merit. I bet FA are celebrating now as their main goal all this time have been to put the preassure over to the UEFA and make them take the hard decisions. FA has put the UEFA in the vice, and the winners are FA (5 english teams in the competition) and Everton (the obvious alternative was Liverpool as the 4th english team).

Not so fast, Kop. The FA had the chance to put Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal directly into the group stage. Instead, they chose to put only Chelsea and Arsenal into the group stage and let Everton join Man U in QR3. It's far from given that Everton survive QR3. I'd say the chances of them getting kicked down into the Uefa cup are larger than them surviving QR3.

 

Until both Everton and Liverpool are in the group stage, the FA have won fuck all imo.

The loosers are UEFA (their regulations have been tested and found out, and they had to make the unpopular decisions) and Liverpool (who should've had the 'Real' way into the competition). After FA made their pre-final statement that they were giving the 4th english spot to Everton no matter what, Liverpool became winners (no thanks to FA) in terms of being allowed back into the competition).

I don't think Uefa are the losers in this game, we are. Uefa were put on the spot by a redicilous decision by the FA. Even though I think Uefa should have come to a different decision, they are not the losers here.

 

If there is someone who deserves stick it's FA, not UEFA.

Spot on.

 

All this said, we just have to deal with it and prepare for a bussy summer. If I could choose between 3 qualifying rounds for CL, or no CL at all, I'd take the 3 qualifying rounds every time.

Have to agree with that. I guess Rafa is quite pissed right now. But the class manager that he is, he will of course not say so.

[BENIRL]

The FA have set us up and UEFA have shafted us. But it is a nice shafting, we are in the champions league. The same people would be on this forum complaining if we did not get into the competition. We should enter reserve teams in the fa and league cups. Lets just do the unexpected again.

[Guest Brian Stewart]

Let's put all this in perspective. Our league form was shite - on the basis of the way we played in England last year (Palace, Birmingham, Boro, Spurs, Blackburn, etc., etc., ....) we DO NOT DESERVE to be in the CL. On the basis of our European form, of course we do.

 

Frankly, we have been thrown a scrap by EUFA. But no one is out of order, or anything like that, on the basis of the rules at the start of the season. There should have been provision for the champions to defed their title - but there wasn't. The real problem is that UEFA were too stupid to envisage that happening. They sorted that today, but only for subsequent years. But we have a shot at defending our title - that's all that matters.

 

Many people are talking about the money - Everton are whinging because they will get less now we are in it; some believe we are being ripped off because Everton are in, and thus our share will be less. I DON'T BLOODY CARE. I want the glory - we got that on May 25, now we have a chance of more.

 

For most of the 90s I lived in south Manchester. I remember Man Ure rising - remember a terrible evening sitting in my flat in 93 and hearing the shouts and the screams as the Bastards won the league for the first time since 68, and remember how we became a laughing stock. I also remember so many evenings sitting in the pub moaning to a City supporting mate about how badly we were doing, and his tears rollling down his face into his Guinness as they fell to the third level and he said ' I wish we were you are'.

 

We won back respect on May 25. For fuck's sake everyone, STOP MOANING. The glass is three-quarters full. I believe we can win the league under Rafa, and WE'RE THE EUROPEAN CHAMPIONS!!!! We've been dealt a shit hand, sure, but it's partly our fault, and by God we can rise above all this. Leave the bitterness to others - this is Liverpool Football Club, for God's sake.

[Bob]

thats almost poetic. I can't disagree with a word of it.

One more plus side of being put into QF1 rather than into the group stage...

 

if we were into the group stage we'd still be talking about Peter fucking Crouch, as it is we've got something important to think and talk about!

[Paul]

When I first heard this news yesterday, I was absolutely livid. This morning my ire has cooled somewhat, but that doesn't change the fact that both the FA and Uefa have royally fucked up over this.

 

Uefa, by allowing any sort of ambiguity in the entry rules to their own tournament, are a shambles - especially as this anomaly was highlighted in Spain a few years ago. They effectively penalise the three most successful leagues in Europe for being successful. Surely the fact that a team from England or Spain can win the European Cup whilst finishing outside the top four in their own league is a sign of just how strong those leagues are? Why should we pay for being stronger than everyone else in Europe? I thought the whole point of football was to win. Clearly if you do too much of it, Uefa feel they have to reign you in.

 

Furthermore, by amending their rules for future years, they have effectively admitted they were wrong. That is the greatest scandal here. If we'd left it a season, we could have finished seventeenth and still gone in as top seeds. It's a fucking joke. Do these fuckers have any contact whatsoever with the grassroots of football - not to mention the fans?

 

Beyond the farce that is Uefa, however, lies the corrupt make-up of the FA. This is the "governing body" that was complicit in the devaluing of its own tournament sveral years ago in order to kiss the arse of Manchester United and Fifa; the same "organisation" that publicly stated last season the polar opposite stance on the "outside the top four, but CL winners" scenario. They are utterly devoid of principle; they merely opperate on a policy of the path of least resistance - in this case, avoiding the outpouring of bile from the Blue 15% of Merseyside, not to mention the internal wrangles David Dein would undoubtedly have pursued had his club been dropped into the qualifying rounds.

 

In short, fuck the FA and fuck Uefa.

 

Having said that, I've now moved on from the "tell 'em where they can stick their pissy competitions" stance I'd adopted yesterday. My view is we should now shut the fuck up and win every fucking thing they put in front of us. I know that's a virtual impossibility, but I don't want to see the media full of Everton-esque bitching about how it's "so unfair". Rafa needs to tell his quad that the whole of football is against us - as they clearly seem to be - and use it as the motivational device to spur us on to the Quadruple.

 

Just to clarify: fuck England; fuck the FA; fuck Uefa and fuck everyone else in the Premier League. Come on you Reds!!!

[Captain]

Beyond the farce that is Uefa, however, lies the corrupt make-up of the FA. This is the "governing body" that was complicit in the devaluing of its own tournament sveral years ago in order to kiss the arse of Manchester United and Fifa; the same "organisation" that publicly stated last season the polar opposite stance on the "outside the top four, but CL winners" scenario. They are utterly devoid of principle; they merely opperate on a policy of the path of least resistance - in this case, avoiding the outpouring of bile from the Blue 15% of Merseyside, not to mention the internal wrangles David Dein would undoubtedly have pursued had his club been dropped into the qualifying rounds.

Paul, Arsenal would not have dropped into the qualifying rounds had the FA chosen us instead of Everton. The FA undoubtedly carry most of the blame for this, but let's keep the facts straight.

[Paul]

Cheers for the telling off. I'm only going by what the press were reporting before the final - us and Chelsea would go in and The Arse would have to qualify. Apologies if I got my facts wrong. It wasn't intentional.

[barosrocks]

Put out the Under 18 team in the FA Cup, and give the entire first team squad a break for the week of the 3rd round - we were accused of 'devaluing' it last year, lets do it for real this time

 

P.S. Fuck the FA & Fuck UEFA

[Dirk]

When I first heard this news yesterday, I was absolutely livid. This morning my ire has cooled somewhat, but that doesn't change the fact that both the FA and Uefa have royally fucked up over this.

 

Uefa, by allowing any sort of ambiguity in the entry rules to their own tournament, are a shambles - especially as this anomaly was highlighted in Spain a few years ago. They effectively penalise the three most successful leagues in Europe for being successful. Surely the fact that a team from England or Spain can win the European Cup whilst finishing outside the top four in their own league is a sign of just how strong those leagues are? Why should we pay for being stronger than everyone else in Europe? I thought the whole point of football was to win. Clearly if you do too much of it, Uefa feel they have to reign you in.

 

Furthermore, by amending their rules for future years, they have effectively admitted they were wrong. That is the greatest scandal here. If we'd left it a season, we could have finished seventeenth and still gone in as top seeds. It's a fucking joke. Do these fuckers have any contact whatsoever with the grassroots of football - not to mention the fans?

 

Beyond the farce that is Uefa, however, lies the corrupt make-up of the FA. This is the "governing body" that was complicit in the devaluing of its own tournament sveral years ago in order to kiss the arse of Manchester United and Fifa; the same "organisation" that publicly stated last season the polar opposite stance on the "outside the top four, but CL winners" scenario. They are utterly devoid of principle; they merely opperate on a policy of the path of least resistance - in this case, avoiding the outpouring of bile from the Blue 15% of Merseyside, not to mention the internal wrangles David Dein would undoubtedly have pursued had his club been dropped into the qualifying rounds.

 

In short, fuck the FA and fuck Uefa.

 

Having said that, I've now moved on from the "tell 'em where they can stick their pissy competitions" stance I'd adopted yesterday. My view is we should now shut the fuck up and win every fucking thing they put in front of us. I know that's a virtual impossibility, but I don't want to see the media full of Everton-esque bitching about how it's "so unfair". Rafa needs to tell his quad that the whole of football is against us - as they clearly seem to be - and use it as the motivational device to spur us on to the Quadruple.

 

Just to clarify: fuck England; fuck the FA; fuck Uefa and fuck everyone else in the Premier League. Come on you Reds!!!

 

I said the same thing to my brother yesterday. Purple nose instilled a siege mentallity at Man Ure. I don't think Rafa will go as far as that as but I am sure he will use it to further his own ends.

[BatChainPuller]

When I first heard this news yesterday, I was absolutely livid. This morning my ire has cooled somewhat, but that doesn't change the fact that both the FA and Uefa have royally fucked up over this.

 

Uefa, by allowing any sort of ambiguity in the entry rules to their own tournament, are a shambles - especially as this anomaly was highlighted in Spain a few years ago. They effectively penalise the three most successful leagues in Europe for being successful. Surely the fact that a team from England or Spain can win the European Cup whilst finishing outside the top four in their own league is a sign of just how strong those leagues are? Why should we pay for being stronger than everyone else in Europe? I thought the whole point of football was to win. Clearly if you do too much of it, Uefa feel they have to reign you in.

 

Furthermore, by amending their rules for future years, they have effectively admitted they were wrong. That is the greatest scandal here. If we'd left it a season, we could have finished seventeenth and still gone in as top seeds. It's a fucking joke. Do these fuckers have any contact whatsoever with the grassroots of football - not to mention the fans?

 

Beyond the farce that is Uefa, however, lies the corrupt make-up of the FA. This is the "governing body" that was complicit in the devaluing of its own tournament sveral years ago in order to kiss the arse of Manchester United and Fifa; the same "organisation" that publicly stated last season the polar opposite stance on the "outside the top four, but CL winners" scenario. They are utterly devoid of principle; they merely opperate on a policy of the path of least resistance - in this case, avoiding the outpouring of bile from the Blue 15% of Merseyside, not to mention the internal wrangles David Dein would undoubtedly have pursued had his club been dropped into the qualifying rounds.

 

In short, fuck the FA and fuck Uefa.

 

Having said that, I've now moved on from the "tell 'em where they can stick their pissy competitions" stance I'd adopted yesterday. My view is we should now shut the fuck up and win every fucking thing they put in front of us. I know that's a virtual impossibility, but I don't want to see the media full of Everton-esque bitching about how it's "so unfair". Rafa needs to tell his quad that the whole of football is against us - as they clearly seem to be - and use it as the motivational device to spur us on to the Quadruple.

 

Just to clarify: fuck England; fuck the FA; fuck Uefa and fuck everyone else in the Premier League. Come on you Reds!!!

 

 

Thanks for that Paul - totally agree. Its all starting to feel a bit like the eighties - we're winning in Europe again and also attracting the envy and sniping that always went with that (but thankfully without the big hair).

 

Oh and thank you Mr Lennart sir, thank you for fucking us up the arse sir, how lucky we are to have a friend like you Mr Lennart sir.

[chorlton]

Dont give a monkeys, nothing we can do about it now, we are in. That enables us to attract better players. We won the European Cup, and are one of the few clubs left that has some sort of soul and dignity.

 

I support LFC, it doesn't get better than that no matter what gets thrown at us.

[Guest Brian Stewart]

Yes, COMPLETELY wrong. Until about March the exact opposite of what you suggest was assumed! People were even talking on this board about how sweet it would be to deny Everton the CL-spot in that exact way! The FA themselves even suggested as much when they clarified the rules on their web site last spring. Even though they claimed it was not an official statement, it's all they've ever said on this situation until their horrendous decision this spring.

 

We didn't blow it! We even came back from the dead to do it! WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS! It's so far from blowing it as you can possibly get!

 

The real problem was that the FA made the wrong decision - it really is that simple. Uefa's Executive Comittee today made sure the FA, or any other national association for that matter, will never be allowed to take that (wrong) decision again.

 

 

I was talking about us failing to get in the top 4. We blew that. In the last month of the season, we drew at home to Spurs and Boro, and lost away to City and Palace. We had the ability to win all those (we showed how good we can be in Istanbul in the second half), but dropping 10 points to poorer teams meant Everton finished 4th - and dropped us into the situation we are in now.

 

I WAS wrong in thinking the rules were that the top 4 go in, when in fact it was at the FA's discretion who goes in, but not about the FACT that we messed up in the chase for 4th spot. I was also not wrong in saying that UEFA should have sorted this out years ago.

 

So wrong on one point, right on two. Therefore not completely wrong. The important point though is that what the FA do is beyond our control, but our poor form in the last month of the season cost us 4th spot.