Racism

[aws]

Stu - aren't you ignoring the word "and" from that definition?

[DT]

So the essence of the question is, are the Spanish a race, are the Irish, are the gingers, the scousers, the left handed?

[Stu Monty]

No because it's plain to anyone with eyes that they are two seperate criteria not one all inclusive catch all.

 

Otherwise saying black men have big cock's wouldn't be racist would it?

[Stu Monty]

So the essence of the question is, are the Spanish a race, are the Irish, are the gingers, the scousers, the left handed?

 

As I have stated before Black bastard is no more an insult that Ginger bastard to the man who is comfortable with race.

[aws]

No because it's plain to anyone with eyes that they are two seperate criteria not one all inclusive catch all.

 

Otherwise saying black men have big cock's wouldn't be racist would it?

 

It isn't according to your definition.

[DT]

Sorry, being foreign, I'm not sure I understand that completely. Please elaborate, Stu.

[Brownie]

I fail to see how saying that a Spanish player will struggle to adapt in English football is racist. It's to do with changes in culture and football style, nothing to do with that persons character.

 

When we signed the 3 Spaniards Rafa kept going on about how Alonso would settle quicker because he was Basque - i.e. Basque are stronger in character than general Spaniards. Does that make Rafa racist?

 

I sympathise with Stu because I can see what he's getting at. Maybe by definition it is racist but if so the world has gone mad I think.

[Stu Monty]

Yes that would make Rafa racist. It would be no different to saying you wanted to buy a german because they are efficient or that you wouldn't buy a frenchman because they are cowards.

 

aws - Poor example as your cock it could be argued is a physical attribute and not a the same as someones qualities i suppose fair enough.

 

Ian. You go for a job in spain. They say that they aren't going to employ you as they presume due to you being english you won't settle. It's racist.

 

If they met you and said you didn't seem strong enough to settle sure, but presuming you won't settle because of the nationality on your passport is racist.

[Brownie]

Yes that would make Rafa racist. It would be no different to saying you wanted to buy a german because they are efficient or that you wouldn't buy a frenchman because they are cowards.

 

aws - Poor example as your cock it could be argued is a physical attribute and not a the same as someones qualities i suppose fair enough.

 

Ian. You go for a job in spain. They say that they aren't going to employ you as they presume due to you being english you won't settle. It's racist.

 

If they met you and said you didn't seem strong enough to settle sure, but presuming you won't settle because of the nationality on your passport is racist.

 

Is that racism though? Im the same race as a Spaniard/American/Swede/German - i.e. caucasian. Their judgement would be based on nationality not race, so maybe its prejudiced but racist im not so sure.

 

And if I was up against a Spaniard for that job, and he had the same qualifications as me then i'd expect him to get the nod because of his nationality. I wouldn't see it as racism, it would make more sense from a business perspective.

[Guest Rich F]

When we signed the 3 Spaniards Rafa kept going on about how Alonso would settle quicker because he was Basque - i.e. Basque are stronger in character than general Spaniards. Does that make Rafa racist?

 

I sympathise with Stu because I can see what he's getting at. Maybe by definition it is racist but if so the world has gone mad I think.

 

Totally agree IB. I made the 'Alonso/Basque' point the other day, unware of mine and Rafa's deep-seated racism.

 

Remember our 'You French bastard' ditty for Cantona (and Ginola?) not so long ago? What should our punishment have been? Glass houses and all that.

 

To contradict that slightly, I think it's implicit in Stu's dictionary definition that race is understood as an ethnic group rather than a nationality, as in the following:

 

Concise OED: Race: 1. Each of the major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics.

 

Prejudice based upon nationality is also unpleasant and to be eradicated, but it's also distinguishable from and a somewhat lesser crime IMO than prejudice against colour or ethnic group.

 

To exemplify that, a crowd of French fans waving steaks around at English players, because they disparagingly refer to us at the 'beef steaks', would be far less offensive (and would perhaps even be funny) than a Spanish crowd making monkey noises or throwing bananas at a Cameroon team. The latter is inherently more vile because the insult is an attack on the people's physical and ethnic appearance rather than a feature of their culture.

 

I'm not excusing tabloid jingoism (far from it), terms like 'kraut' and 'frog' and other instances of prejudice based on nationality, but to bracket that entirely with 'racism' is an exercise in semantics and PC in my view and obscures / hinders the eradication of the more destructive brand of prejudice.

[Stu Monty]

Very well put views and I accept a lot of it. But i see it as no better or worse that judging on colour.

 

Judge each on his own. Anything other than that and you deserve from me nothing but contempt.

 

Off to go and represent the niggas and kill some mexican scum on San Andreas now...toodle pip peeps.

[Brownie]

Totally agree IB. I made the 'Alonso/Basque' point the other day, unware of mine and Rafa's deep-seated racism.

 

Remember our 'You French bastard' ditty for Cantona (and Ginola?) not so long ago? What should our punishment have been? Glass houses and all that.

 

To contradict that slightly, I think it's implicit in Stu's dictionary definition that race is understood as an ethnic group rather than a nationality, as in the following:

 

Concise OED: Race: 1. Each of the major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics.

 

Prejudice based upon nationality is also unpleasant and to be eradicated, but it's also distinguishable from and a somewhat lesser crime IMO than prejudice against colour or ethnic group.

 

To exemplify that, a crowd of French fans waving steaks around at English players, because they disparagingly refer to us at the 'beef steaks', would be far less offensive (and would perhaps even be funny) than a Spanish crowd making monkey noises or throwing bananas at a Cameroon team. The latter is inherently more vile because the insult is an attack on the people's physical and ethnic appearance rather than a feature of their culture.

 

I'm not excusing tabloid jingoism (far from it), terms like 'kraut' and 'frog' and other instances of prejudice based on nationality, but to bracket that entirely with 'racism' is an exercise in semantics and PC in my view and obscures / hinders the eradication of the more destructive brand of prejudice.

 

Superbly put.

[Brownie]

Was just watching something on .tv and David Fairclough is to be added to the growing list of 'racists' after saying, 'Pellegrino is Argentinian so he'll be aggressive' ;-)

[DT]

Was just watching something on .tv and David Fairclough is to be added to the growing list of 'racists' after saying, 'Pellegrino is Argentinian so he'll be aggressive' ;-)

 

Being a ginger does he have any clue what he's talking about? :tease:

[Al Campbell]

Nothing will happen in Madrid. The Ultras still get priority seating from Madrid because they carry quite an influence over there and the board won't risk upsetting them over something they see as trivial. There's a very good article on this in the new WSC out on Wednesday.

[Bellflower]

Racism isn't a problem, racial prejudice is.

End of.

[Dirk]

To say that a player won't adapt to English football because he is Spanish is nonsense. Imo it is racist too. The deciding factor in his inability to adapt is placed upon his nationality and not his ability. It would be racism to say that a Black person couldn't do a certain job because of his ethnicity. If a player can't adapt here it's due to his ability, be it physical or technical not the fact that he is a Spaniard. To claim saying that he won't adapt because he's spanish isn't racist doesn't standard the test of logic and reason. If I was to say, such and such couldn't do this job he's too stupid, it's because he's Irish, then we'd agree that I was racist? That's what is being said, that soembody can't perform well enough in a given field of work due to his nationality. If we're to be pedantic it's xenophobia not racism. Spaniards are of the same race - as white people. I'm being a being a bit presumptive, so I edited it and put white people, for all you none-white readers. Hypocrisy I hear?

[Gav]

Nothing will happen in Madrid. The Ultras still get priority seating from Madrid because they carry quite an influence over there and the board won't risk upsetting them over something they see as trivial. There's a very good article on this in the new WSC out on Wednesday.

 

 

Well in there for the ref - he incluced it in his report and spoke with the fourth official over it - announcement to stop out over the tannoy -

 

Means the spainish FA must do something now as its official -they can't ignore it like previously

[Stu Monty]

Nothing will happen in Madrid. The Ultras still get priority seating from Madrid because they carry quite an influence over there and the board won't risk upsetting them over something they see as trivial. There's a very good article on this in the new WSC out on Wednesday.

 

You read the review of Terry Yorath's autobiography yet Al, I'm not that bothered about the guy but it looks like a really interesting read?

[Kurt]

It would be racism to say that a Black person couldn't do a certain job because of his ethnicity.

 

Would it still be if the job in line was as the leader of Ku Klux Klan??

 

;)

[Anubis]

This is horrible. If I was Ian Wright I’d pay a private investigator to hunt this little twat down, then give the little cunt a good shoeing.

 

 

 

 

[Jimmy Hills Chin]

I’m thinking that Patrick may experience a little pushback from this. Gobshite.

[Jennings]

"I wos hacked, honnist !"

[Anubis]

I wonder what his mate thinks.

 

[Oh Buoy]

I'm in two minds about this.

 

From Wright's POV, this was probably the one that broke the camel's back and I think the post was quite an emotive reaction to what is probably a sample of the amount of abuse he gets on a daily basis. What the lad's said is completely unacceptable, it's beyond disgusting and should rightly be broadcast/reported to provide a reality check on where we are as a society.

 

On the other hand, trial by social media could have been prevented by editing the lad's name out of the picture. His behaviour is vile and unacceptable but should be dealt with by the relevant authorities. Broadcasting his name has probably ruined his life for the foreseeable. People are finding his relatives and friends and contacting them to alert them about his behaviour (and let's be honest, probably to echo back some of the abuse he's given Wright).