Venezuela

[moof]

1 minute ago, Strontium Dog said:

 

The likes of Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott etc have literally described Venezuela as a model to be followed and proof that another way of doing things is possible. So your claim that they wouldn't try to implement anything like it here is based on - what, exactly?

 Very fucking close to “corbin wonts to turn us into Venezuela” that. You disingenuous turd 

 

Provide quotes 

[Strontium]

1 minute ago, moof said:

 Very fucking close to “corbin wonts to turn us into Venezuela” that. You disingenuous turd 

 

Provide quotes 

 

Happy to provide exact quotes, if you'll actually answer the question this time.

[Captain Turdseye]

4 minutes ago, Strontium Dog said:

 

The likes of Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott etc have literally described Venezuela as a model to be followed and proof that another way of doing things is possible. So your claim that they wouldn't try to implement anything like it here is based on - what, exactly?

 

Based on the fact that it simply wouldn’t be allowed to happen in this country. But you know that anyway.

[TheHowieLama]

Corbyn was definitely a big Chavez admirer 

[moof]

1 minute ago, TheHowieLama said:

Corbyn was definitely a big Chavez admirer 

Chavez was mostly good 

[Strontium]

1 minute ago, Captain Turdseye said:

Based on the fact that it simply wouldn’t be allowed to happen in this country. But you know that anyway.

 

It "wouldn't be allowed to happen"? Can you explain what you mean by that?

[Captain Turdseye]

Just now, Strontium Dog said:

 

It "wouldn't be allowed to happen"? Can you explain what you mean by that?

 

Democracy. 

[SasaS]

Somehow, I don't see BP bankrolling kolkhozes springing up in Kent. 

[Jairzinho]

1 hour ago, TheHowieLama said:

So there is something intrinsic to South American people that guarantees failure of the ideology?

Only where they live.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Wow. Another thread where somebody who is "sick of talking about Corbyn" is talking about Corbyn. 

 

Hilarious. I'd sooner advocate a failed socialist state than an apartheid state with a penchant for war crimes.

[TheHowieLama]

1 minute ago, moof said:

Chavez was mostly good 

For who?

 

If there was ever an example of a fella who took advantage of "socialism" - to the point he could not even define it - while solidifying his own power it is him

[Strontium]

Just now, Captain Turdseye said:

Democracy. 

 

As in, our democratic checks and balances would be able to stop Corbyn from delivering a full-on socialist programme?

 

I thought the argument was that "outside influences" were preventing South American countries from delivering socialism too?

 

Very hard to keep a track on what the argument is supposed to be here.

[TheHowieLama]

1 minute ago, Jairzinho said:

Only where they live.

Not optimal

[Strontium]

1 minute ago, TheHowieLama said:

For who?

 

If there was ever an example of a fella who took advantage of "socialism" - to the point he could not even define it - while solidifying his own power it is him

 

It cannot be denied that he was an expert on redistributing wealth. Much of it to his own family.

[moof]

*aneurism intensifies*

[Captain Turdseye]

Just now, Strontium Dog said:

Very hard to keep a track on what the argument is supposed to be here.

 

That’ll be because you deliberately removed the part of my post that said all we’re crying out for in this country is a swing to the left. 

 

I’ve mentioned nothing about outside influences. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

@Strontium Dog Can I see those exact quotes from Corbyn, mate? In context if possible. I mean, they’ve come up with a manifesto that was very ‘not Venezuelan’, and I believe their next one won’t be a massive departure to hardcore socialism. 

[Hades]

1. Fully automated state capitalism

2. Robust welfare state

3. Lifelong, free, classical education for all

4. High taxes on wealth generated by digging natural resources out of the ground or pumping toxins into the atmosphere.

5. Financial incentives for smart people to breed.

6. Financial incentives for stupid people and disabled people not to breed.

7. Profit?

[Strontium]

6 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

@Strontium Dog Can I see those exact quotes from Corbyn, mate? In context if possible. I mean, they’ve come up with a manifesto that was very ‘not Venezuelan’, and I believe their next one won’t be a massive departure to hardcore socialism. 

 

I'll be happy to provide quotes, but I won't be able to until later. They're easy enough to find though.

 

What is probably more important than what he, and his coterie, have said, is what they haven't said. He hasn't rowed back from his support for Maduro, and issues bland Trumpian condemnation of violence on "all sides" while police are slaughtering hordes of protestors.

 

I would have far more respect for them if they said: Hey, you know what, we done fucked up by supporting Chavez and Maduro, and the people who were telling is what would happen in Venezuela for the best part of 20 years were pretty much on the money about it.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

We should all change our avatars to pictures of hotels in Caracas, to suggest that the people of Venezuela have never had things so good...

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 minute ago, Strontium Dog said:

 

I'll be happy to provide quotes, but I won't be able to until later. They're easy enough to find though.

 

What is probably more important than what he, and his coterie, have said, is what they haven't said. He hasn't rowed back from his support for Maduro, and issues bland Trumpian condemnation of violence on "all sides" while police are slaughtering hordes of protestors.

 

I would have far more respect for them if they said: Hey, you know what, we done fucked up by supporting Chavez and Maduro, and the people who were telling is what would happen in Venezuela for the best part of 20 years were pretty much on the money about it.

They weren’t though, so that’d be silly. I’ll wait for the quotes you’re referring to.

[Strontium]

1 minute ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

They weren’t though, so that’d be silly. I’ll wait for the quotes you’re referring to.

 

Any reason why you can't find them yourself, incidentally? There's enough of them.

[Numero Veinticinco]

7 minutes ago, Strontium Dog said:

 

Any reason why you can't find them yourself, incidentally? There's enough of them.

I’m interested in the quotes you are specifically talking about that says what you claim. That their model is something that we will look to follow. 

[Strontium]

1 minute ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

I’m interested in the quotes you are specifically talking about that says what you claim. 

 

No problem, give me a few hours to put together a dissertation.

 

I'll note that my original post referred to quotes not just by Corbyn, but other senior Labour figures.

[moof]

lol