Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[cloggypop]

That Max Moseley is a glutton for punishment

[Kevin D]

The £25 fee makes sense, given that Corbyn's contract has a clause that means he gets £16m paid into his account within 24 hours, if he leaves.

[Denny Crane]

 

Bristol’s Communication Workers Union has confirmed it will pull funding to the city’s Labour MPs for their part in the “coup” to oust leader Jeremy Corbyn.

 

In a sign of deepening divisions in Bristol, branch secretary Rob Wotherspoon singled out Bristol West MP Thangam Debbonaire, saying she’s “not welcome back” at the campaign office in Lawrence Hill.

 

The move follows reports of a feisty constituency Labour Party meeting last week where Debbonaire spoke of threats and a long-standing Labour member claimed she was reduced to tears by the “toxic” atmosphere.

 

Debbonaire voted in favour of no confidence in Corbyn alongside fellow Bristol Labour MPs Kerry McCarthy and Karin Smyth, and 80 per cent of the Parliamentary Labour Party.

 

http://www.bristol247.com/channel/news-comment/daily/politics/union-withdraws-funds-to-bristols-labour-mps

[Fowlers God]

With the Tories in turmoil now is the real time to get behind some one who will lead the people of the nation. Corbyn is that man.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sir roger]

I am lucky enough that £25 isn't a massive issue so I am going to register to vote & then see what happens with the election & its aftermath before I see whether I want to become a member.

 

I get the feeling that this whingeing that someone telling you something you don't want to hear is Marxist bullying is going to be the script of this election, unfortunately.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

The £25 fee makes sense, given that Corbyn's contract has a clause that means he gets £16m paid into his account within 24 hours, if he leaves.

What?

[Sugar Ape]

I am lucky enough that £25 isn't a massive issue so I am going to register to vote & then see what happens with the election & its aftermath before I see whether I want to become a member.

 

I get the feeling that this whingeing that someone telling you something you don't want to hear is Marxist bullying is going to be the script of this election, unfortunately.

Can we stop this shit that anyone who says they have suffered bullying is making it all up? It's not just people getting told stuff they don't want to hear. One of the problems is people seem so entrenched they won't contemplate that maybe not everyone is some raging right wing Blairite making stuff up to smear Corbyn. Clearly some MPs overdo it but it's foolish to smear everyone with the same brush. And the same goes for the other side too, Corbyn says he's received death threats and abuse and I don't doubt that he has.

 

The NEC woman before who brought it up is a trade union representative. I doubt she's a Blairite. Maybe she is making it all up, but just on the off chance she's not do you think this is acceptable?

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/13/corbyn-endorsed-bullying-by-voting-against-secret-ballot?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

Baxter said despite having never made public her personal view of the Labour leader, she had had her personal mobile number posted online and been bombarded with intimidating emails and messages, including almost 1,000 overnight.

 

[Kevin D]

Can we stop this shit that anyone who says they have suffered bullying is making it all up? It's not just people getting told stuff they don't want to hear. One of the problems is people seem so entrenched they won't contemplate that maybe not everyone is some raging right wing Blairite making stuff up to smear Corbyn. Clearly some MPs overdo it but it's foolish to smear everyone with the same brush. And the same goes for the other side too, Corbyn says he's received death threats and abuse and I don't doubt that he has.

 

The NEC woman before who brought it up is a trade union representative. I doubt she's a Blairite.

Maybe she is making it all up, but just on the off chance she's not do you think this is acceptable?

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/13/corbyn-endorsed-bullying-by-voting-against-secret-ballot?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[Youtube]

[Gnasher]

Where the fuck did the Labour party find these fucking wishy washy women?

[Gnasher]

Ken Loach; Still great.

[Captain Turdseye]

What?

Numero, meet Kevin. Kevin, Numero.

[Sugar Ape]

Owen Smith offers chance for 2nd referendum on the EU. Interesting and a smart move I think.
 
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/13/owen-smith-to-offer-referendum-on-brexit-deal-if-elected-labour-leader?CMP=share_btn_tw
 

Owen Smith to offer referendum on Brexit deal if elected Labour leader
 


Owen Smith has set out his stall for the Labour leadership by saying he would offer the public a second referendum to ratify any Brexit deal Britain strikes with the EU.

In an interview with the Guardian, the Pontypridd MP accused Jeremy Corbyn, the Labour leader, of acting selfishly and warned that his party was “teetering on the brink of being destroyed”.

Smith, whose entry into the race for party leader threatens to derail the hopes of Angela Eagle, who first triggered the contest, said it was clear people wanted both access to the single market and controls on immigration.

But, he added, the public wanted to know what deal would be struck, adding: “And then we should give them another chance. That does mean a second referendum or a general election when the terms are clear. The Labour government should be committing to that.”

Trying to set himself out as a unifying figure with soft-left politics, Smith accused Labour MPs on the left and right of his party of being fatalistic about a split.

“The vast majority of Labour members and Labour members of parliament have been sitting, like in the back seat of a car, as we are careering towards a cliff and someone has got to wrest the steering wheel off the people who are causing this problem,” he said.

He said Corbyn ought to have stepped down in the face of a no-confidence vote from 75% of his parliamentary colleagues, adding: “I think he is being selfish.”

James Schneider – a national organiser for Momentum, the pro-Corbyn grassroots group – said Smith and Eagle were the ones risking a divide in the party. He said his group had mobilised huge support for Corbyn in six days, with 25,000 people attending 35 events. Schneider said the group were using the leadership campaign to try out ways to mobilise for an election. “We’ve learned a lot from Bernie Sanders,” he added. “It is not about changing the face at the top, it is about changing the way we do politics.”

Smith also said it would be better if only one person challenged Corbyn. “Let’s wait and see where we end up. Let’s see who’s got more support,” he said. “Ideally, we would have one candidate, and the clarity of that one candidate versus Jeremy Corbyn.”

The MP said Labour should be sensible and mature about the outcome of the EU referendum. “I think there are many people out there who voted in good faith for Brexit and who felt they were doing the right thing for their families and their communities and I respect them for taking that decision,” he said.

“But I think a lot of people I know are now saying to themselves, ‘It wasn’t the right decision.’ A lot of people are angry that they were quite clearly misled by the Brexit campaign.”

Citing the claim of £350m a week that could be poured into the NHS, Smith said people should see Britain’s exit from the EU more as a journey than a destination.

“What is Labour’s role in this? Our role is to be sensible and mature about this and put our foot on the ball for the British public and say what do the terms actually look like,” he said.

Eagle told the Guardian she supported a similar position on the referendum, agreeing that any rush to implement Brexit should be avoided, and any deal followed by a second vote or election.

Asked why he had challenged Eagle for the leadership when many MPs want to see a single candidate against Corbyn, Smith said: “I think we need the next generation of Labour men and women to step up and put our stamp on this party.”

But he conceded that Eagle’s politics were not “a million millions miles away” from his and disagreed with those who were trying to characterise her as a candidate on the right of the party.

Smith said: “I think she would make an excellent leader of the party and if she were the leader of the party, I would work very happily alongside her.”

But he also claimed Eagle was being “supported by a lot of people who are further right on the spectrum of the Labour party than I am” and hinted that almost 25 years in politics and her support for the Iraq war could prove difficult for her.

Asked about his time as an adviser to Labour MP Paul Murphy, who voted in favour of the war, he said he was openly against Britain’s involvement in the conflict and even offered to resign over it. Smith said Murphy asked him to stay because of his work on the Northern Ireland peace process.

Some MPs backing Eagle expressed fury at Smith’s decision to challenge their candidate, with some pointing to comments he had made after the Iraq war about Labour’s “valuable tradition” of engaging to remove dictators.

Smith said he did believe in the “internationalist tradition of intervention” but felt the arguments were not there in the case of Iraq. Smith also differs from Corbyn on Britain’s nuclear deterrent and is likely to vote for Trident’s renewal next week despite being a former member of the CND.

Smith argued that a further advantage was that he was “not part of any coup or plot to get rid of Jeremy Corybn”, saying nobody called him to ask whether he would resign.

He said that following his decision to step down, he left London to visit his brother in hospital, only to realise a few days later “that Angela Eagle was the only candidate”. He also claimed that he had had “umpteen” phone calls from colleagues urging him to stand instead.

Smith’s key backers include Lisa Nandy, Kate Green and Heidi Alexander, who all also resigned from the shadow cabinet last month.

Smith said he supported Corbyn on a number of issues including anti-austerity but said there had not been any policies to back up the slogan.

“Very often in shadow cabinet when there were difficult discussions about the European Union or economic policy or our attitude to Trident, Jeremy didn’t lead any of those discussions so there was a massive vacuum at the top of our party,” he said.

[Anubis]

How is he going to do that when May won't call an election and appears set to trigger Art50?

[Sugar Ape]

How is he going to do that when May won't call an election and appears set to trigger Art50?

If she triggers Art50 it won't be before the leadership election so he can campaign on Labour calling for a referendum or election to ratify it if he gets elected which Corbyn and Eagle don't seem to be offering.

 

I think May will definitely trigger it personally but it's good he's at least offering something different to the likes of Eagle and setting himself apart from her.

[RoboRiise]

If she triggers Art50 it won't be before the leadership election so he can campaign on Labour calling for a referendum or election to ratify it if he gets elected which Corbyn and Eagle don't seem to be offering.

 

I think May will definitely trigger it personally but it's good he's at least offering something different to the likes of Eagle and setting himself apart from her.

 

Once it's triggered though, it has to be completed within 2 years.  So as long as she triggers it before May 2018 and doesn't call an election (and I'm sure she will do the first one and not do the second one) I think Owen is going to have to face the fact that he's created possibly the most ludicrous attempt to grab votes on the back of a lie since, well since the first referendum actually.

[Sugar Ape]

Once it's triggered though, it has to be completed within 2 years.  So as long as she triggers it before May 2018 and doesn't call an election (and I'm sure she will do the first one and not do the second one) I think Owen is going to have to face the fact that he's created possibly the most ludicrous attempt to grab votes on the back of a lie since, well since the first referendum actually.

 

All anyone who wants to keep us in Europe can do at this point is pledge that if they are in a position to, like leader of the opposition, then they will campaign to call for another EU referendum or an election. Of course that doesn't mean it's likely but no can say they will definitively deliver another vote/election as it is out of their hands. Making it policy to campaign to do so is as good as we can get at the moment.

[sir roger]

Can we stop this shit that anyone who says they have suffered bullying is making it all up? It's not just people getting told stuff they don't want to hear. One of the problems is people seem so entrenched they won't contemplate that maybe not everyone is some raging right wing Blairite making stuff up to smear Corbyn. Clearly some MPs overdo it but it's foolish to smear everyone with the same brush. And the same goes for the other side too, Corbyn says he's received death threats and abuse and I don't doubt that he has.

 

The NEC woman before who brought it up is a trade union representative. I doubt she's a Blairite. Maybe she is making it all up, but just on the off chance she's not do you think this is acceptable?

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/13/corbyn-endorsed-bullying-by-voting-against-secret-ballot?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

 

Just done a long response to this and lost it - aaagh

 

In essence,

 

If her friend had stalking issues that is awful but if you represent the CLP on the NEC surely they must know how you are voting and at that level of the party you have to haver the courage of your convictions. Also, if I know the NEC doesn't do secret ballots so must she.

 

Unless I am mistaken there has not been a single issue of any abuse at ( hundreds of ) CLP meetings passed to police or I am sure we would have heard about it by the anti-Corbyn press. Interesting how a broken window at a CLP office 300 miles from Eagle herself became ' a brick through Angela's window ' on Sky.

[Boss]

Owen Smith can go fuck himself and the horse he rode in on. 

[Anubis]

Once it's triggered though, it has to be completed within 2 years. So as long as she triggers it before May 2018 and doesn't call an election (and I'm sure she will do the first one and not do the second one) I think Owen is going to have to face the fact that he's created possibly the most ludicrous attempt to grab votes on the back of a lie since, well since the first referendum actually.

Smith's best hope at this point is that Mishcon de Reya follow through on their threat of legal action to delay any triggering of Art 50.

[Barrington Womble]

 

 

With the Tories in turmoil now is the real time to get behind some one who will lead the people of the nation. Corbyn is that man.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are the tories in turmoil? They all stabbed each other in the back, went and got fixed at their private health care hospitals, shook hands and got on with running the government. The tories in disarray was allowed to pass while nobody in the labour party could think of anything but themselves. The last month has been the equivalent of the tories prior to the referendum, but it means labour missed it's chance while the tories were weakest. Those cunts have closed ranks and are embarking on how they can fuck us all next.

 

 

[sir roger]

Tories are far better at smiling through gritted teeth than Labour, always have been.

 

They are pretending their massive upcoming problems are a village tea party while the Labour party's version of a bumfight will be providing sport for Sky until late September at earliest.

 

If May can find a way round the fixed term act after the Autumn recess she should call an election. Labour under any of the 3 leadership contenders would be marmalized.

[Sugar Ape]

Just done a long response to this and lost it - aaagh

 

In essence,

 

If her friend had stalking issues that is awful but if you represent the CLP on the NEC surely they must know how you are voting and at that level of the party you have to haver the courage of your convictions. Also, if I know the NEC doesn't do secret ballots so must she.

 

Unless I am mistaken there has not been a single issue of any abuse at ( hundreds of ) CLP meetings passed to police or I am sure we would have heard about it by the anti-Corbyn press. Interesting how a broken window at a CLP office 300 miles from Eagle herself became ' a brick through Angela's window ' on Sky.

 

Mate, you are so partisan it's untrue. If you don't think people - on both sides - are getting abuse and death threats then it's not really worth discussing it with you. Luciana Berger is in the Echo today saying someone called and threatened that she would get it like Jo Cox did. And also called her Jewish scum. That's been passed to the police.

 

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/wavertree-mp-luciana-berger-reports-11611673

 

I can post dozens of tweets for example of vile abuse, antisemitic too, aimed at MPs but I've no doubt you'll just dismiss it. As for secret ballots, it's clear that a majority of the NEC wanted a secret ballot but also that a majority of the NEC backed Corbyn so it's not just his opponents that saw the need for one. The NEC have held secret ballots on votes in the past too on previous occasions so I've read, I think Dennis Skinner was voted off the NEC in 2014 in a secret ballot.

 

On the specific case in question of the trade union representitive on the NEC, if you'd just had your personal details leaked on the internet and hundreds of threatening emails/texts sent to you then I think you might be calling for a secret ballot too. People seem to think it's disgusting if anyone brings up Jo Cox like it's pointscoring, but if you'd seen that happen to a colleague then you are getting threatened with it like Berger then you would  be taking it seriously.

 

None of that is to say people aren't embellishing things for their own ends, but clearly not everyone is and some people are having problems.

[Denny Crane]

Once it's triggered though, it has to be completed within 2 years.  So as long as she triggers it before May 2018 and doesn't call an election (and I'm sure she will do the first one and not do the second one) I think Owen is going to have to face the fact that he's created possibly the most ludicrous attempt to grab votes on the back of a lie since, well since the first referendum actually.

Get the man a bus, Smith not you.

 

So May would hold a referendum that she could lose and then everyone resigns again. I can see the flaw in this.

 

There might be a chance they put what they negotiate from Europe before parliament. Even then as Anubis points out if anyone has a say it will probably be the legal people. I also doubt we will see a referendum on anything in the immediate future in the UK.

[RoboRiise]

Smith's best hope at this point is that Mishcon de Reya follow through on their threat of legal action to delay any triggering of Art 50.

 

You'd have to hope that's what's on his mind.  Obviously I'm just keeping an interested eye on that without even pretending that I have anything in the way of insightful comment on it; I'm reasonably adept at interpreting tax legislation but I don't fool myself that I can extrapolate that to offering informed opinions on complex constitutional matters about which I know very little.  I'm sure that won't stop many, many others from offering their profound insights into it in the coming months though...

[RoboRiise]

Get the man a bus, Smith not you.

 

So May would hold a referendum that she could lose and then everyone resigns again. I can see the flaw in this.

 

There might be a chance they put what they negotiate from Europe before parliament. Even then as Anubis points out if anyone has a say it will probably be the legal people. I also doubt we will see a referendum on anything in the immediate future in the UK.

 

Aye, no matter how this ends up I suspect the last few weeks will have dampened most politicians instincts for any more direct democracy for at least 20 years.