Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 hours ago, Boss said:

 

Putting the Labour party in the hands of the members was the dumbest thing the Labour party ever did. The members - through their own hubris and delusions about what the party should represent - have cast the party into permanent obscurity. The culling of moderate voices to make way for Corbyn sycophants will not only lead the party further into the abyss. 

Democracy is bad?

 

Also, no moderate voices are being culled. Not one.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, Nelly-Torres said:

Except, that's not happening. 

 

Berger had her no confidence vote withdrawn. Hodge is still in her seat. As are Streeting, Mann, Ellman, Gapes, Chris Leslie, Owen Smith, Jess Phillips, Hillary Benn. 

 

Plus, ahead in some polls and tied/close in others hardly equals obscurity. 

 

Nothing but bluster. 

Those names are the people who actively work against the party.  Most moderate MPs just do their job.  That's why their jobs are perfectly safe.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

44 minutes ago, Boss said:

 

You can't dispute the point I made about Momentum making a concerted effort to push moderate voices out of the party, because you know it's true, so you'd rather belittle the impact of it ("Oh, the humanity") than argue the grounds of it's existence. 

It's demonstrably false.

[Boss]

1 minute ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

It's demonstrably false.

Would you like to see them replaced with pro-Corbyn MP's?

[Anubis]

Pro socialist MPs will do.

[Denny Crane]

According to this an email to MPs by Formby has suggested that 90% of the cases forwarded by the Hodge had no link to the Labour party. 

 

Formby’s email reveals that of the two hundred cases ‘put in’ by Margaret Hodge, only twenty instances concerned Labour members – the rest of Ms Hodge’s examples concerned people who had no link to the Labour Party.

Twenty is far too many and abuse directed toward Ms Hodge and any of her colleagues is deplorable. But a 90% error rate in attribution of such abuse to Labour members is huge. 

 

https://skwawkbox.org/2019/02/12/excl-hodges-200-labour-complaints-90-were-not-labour-members/

[AngryOfTuebrook]

7 minutes ago, Boss said:

Would you like to see them replaced with pro-Corbyn MP's?

I'd like to see the half-dozen or so named above replaced by pro-Labour MPs.

 

Moderates like Stephen Twigg, Jon Cruddas, etc. are fine. The party needs a diverse set of centre-left to left-wing voices, from a variety of backgrounds.  Above all, it needs the local members (one member, one vote) to decide who would be the best candidate for their constituency. 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

7 minutes ago, Denny Crane said:

According to this an email to MPs by Formby has suggested that 90% of the cases forwarded by the Hodge had no link to the Labour party. 

 

Formby’s email reveals that of the two hundred cases ‘put in’ by Margaret Hodge, only twenty instances concerned Labour members – the rest of Ms Hodge’s examples concerned people who had no link to the Labour Party.

Twenty is far too many and abuse directed toward Ms Hodge and any of her colleagues is deplorable. But a 90% error rate in attribution of such abuse to Labour members is huge. 

 

https://skwawkbox.org/2019/02/12/excl-hodges-200-labour-complaints-90-were-not-labour-members/

 

[Captain Turdseye]

2 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

I'd like to see the half-dozen or so named above replaced by pro-Labour MPs.

 

Moderates like Stephen Twigg, Jon Cruddas, etc. are fine. The party needs a diverse set of centre-left to left-wing voices, from a variety of backgrounds.  Above all, it needs the local members (one member, one vote) to decide who would be the best candidate for their constituency. 

 

You mental bastard. 

[Denny Crane]

15 minutes ago, Nelly-Torres said:

 

 

So it was 111 not 200 that Hodge submitted around 78% were not members. 

[Boss]

15 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

I'd like to see the half-dozen or so named above replaced by pro-Labour MPs.

 

Moderates like Stephen Twigg, Jon Cruddas, etc. are fine. The party needs a diverse set of centre-left to left-wing voices, from a variety of backgrounds.  Above all, it needs the local members (one member, one vote) to decide who would be the best candidate for their constituency. 

 

Are you a member of Momentum? 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

16 minutes ago, Boss said:

 

Are you a member of Momentum? 

No. But I do follow them closely, I've attended a few meetings and I took part in some of their GE 2017 campaigning  (for Centrist MPs, as it happens). So I know that their aims are closer to mine than this fictional "cull" you're talking about. 

[Boss]

3 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

No. But I do follow them closely, I've attended a few meetings and I took part in some of their GE 2017 campaigning  (for Centrist MPs, as it happens). So I know that their aims are closer to mine than this fictional "cull" you're talking about. 

So who do you want replaced specifically? Smith, Hodge, Berger, Mann, Benn and who else? 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 minute ago, Boss said:

So who do you want replaced specifically? Smith, Hodge, Berger, Mann, Benn and who else? 

I specifically want to leave that decision to the membership of the CLPs. They know best.

[Boss]

1 minute ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

I specifically want to leave that decision to the membership of the CLPs. They know best.

But you want them replaced?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

6 minutes ago, Boss said:

But you want them replaced?

The middle three boil my piss. I'm indifferent to the first and last.

 

But, like I say, if their local CLPs want them as candidates, then I would phone-bank to get them elected. 

[Boss]

1 minute ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

The middle three boil my piss. I'm indifferent to the first and last.

 

But, like I say, if their local CLPs want them as candidates, then I would phone-bank to get them elected. 

But presumably you don't want Abbott replaced, even though she's a walking PR disaster. The people being squeezed are all conveniently centrist voices within the party. The goal - is it not - is to have a unified Socialist Party?

[Scooby Dudek]

17 minutes ago, Boss said:

But presumably you don't want Abbott replaced, even though she's a walking PR disaster. The people being squeezed are all conveniently centrist voices within the party. The goal - is it not - is to have a unified Socialist Party?

 

36 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

I specifically want to leave that decision to the membership of the CLPs. They know best.

Not that AoT is unable to answer for himself, but I believe he had already answered the question before you asked it. 

 

 

 

 

The people being squeezed are all Labour voices speaking continually against the labour party, which it the reason their local CLP appear to have no confidence in them.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Shittest cull ever. 

[Scooby Dudek]

The irony being, confirming how out of touch they were, the PLP voted to increase the power of the membership to stop a left leaning candidate (Ed Miliband) ever being voted as leader due to the loony leftie trade unionists. 

Now they have managed to weaken their own position they are crying foul. They fully support democracy as long as it supports them.

 

 

If I had my way Stephen Kinnock would be shot out of a cannon, but obviously I will respect the decision of the CLP. 

 

 

[Section_31]

1 hour ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

No. But I do follow them closely, I've attended a few meetings and I took part in some of their GE 2017 campaigning  (for Centrist MPs, as it happens). So I know that their aims are closer to mine than this fictional "cull" you're talking about. 

Momentum have done some excellent local campaigning which has often put the local Labour CLPs to shame, and not just for their own candidates either. 

 

It's a tough one. I can see why some established MPs and Labour councillors are wary of change, but at the same time there are some really stale Labour politicians doing absolutely fuck all because they know they've got jobs for lives in their areas. So there should he new people and new ideas breaking through.

[mattyq]

I'd like to get rid of Dennis Skinner and the other Tory Brexit supporters

[Red Phoenix]

4 hours ago, Boss said:

It's blatantly obvious to anyone with a clue that the CLP and Momentum are trying to push out the moderate voices in the party to make way for far left socialist MP's.

 

Not trying to argue just confused at your take on this subject. I don't get why you go from "moderate" straight to far left. Can't it just be accepted that there's a good deal of people that are simply left wing? Maybe it's been so long without an actual left wing that it seems far left in comparison.

 

I don't think moderate is the answer at all though, especially if our environment is getting as bad as scientists have been reporting lately. I think they'll be too corporate friendly and it doesn't seem like we're able to put up with that for much longer. Flat out ignorance of this issue and business as usual will cause huge protests and probably riots in the streets soon, people will take the view that the planet is worth more than a bunch of cronies and the consequences of bringing parts of the country to a stand still won't mean anything in comparison. Governments will have to back down or society will start to collapse, nothing but change will be accepted if it looks like there's nothing to lose.

 

Moderate will have to move well to the left, so it's actually moderate again if it's going to stand a chance. Green New Deals and similar proposals are scoffed and laughed at, if the scientists are right though they soon won't be. They'll have to be implemented on some level and quickly or we'll be in serious trouble. Oceans will be fucked, emissions could cause the weather to spiral out of control and sea levels to rise, species will start dying out. So yeah, maybe if moderates move well back into an actual center instead of remaining on the right we'll have a chance.

 

I think just an actual sensible left wing government would be the best option though. It doesn't have to be far left or trying to implement anarchism or communism, just a government that actually gives a shit about priorities instead of lining their pockets for a change.

[moof]

Why would anybody want dianne Abbott deselected? She’s a brilliant mp 

[cloggypop]

8 minutes ago, moof said:

Why would anybody want dianne Abbott deselected? She’s a brilliant mp 

Her constituency seem to love her.