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Family Strife


Section_31
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3 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

 

My mother and sister had a codependent relationship when it came to this kind of thing, forever taking from Peter to pay PauL, constantly on the scrounge, always skint and always looking for a favour. Thank fully the had a huge fall out and don't speak so my mum is kinda stable now, not without me having to help out quite a bit.

 

I tried to help out lending money, but it just became a cycle and increased every time as they needed more than before. I blame all the short term loans or cash converter interest that keeps them in the cycle of debt as it is/was so easy to come by. I set up all the utilities as they were blacklisted and got the the internet and phone lines etc on the proviso they paid it o time etc. Some were out of my bank others from theirs, you can guess the rest. I got a court debt collection letter about a year back for a bill they didn't pay seven years ago! I think I've written in here before that my mum borrowed my first paper round money and never paid me back.

 

In the end I just stopped, but then they'd just go elsewhere and the cycle continues. The final straw was when my mum needed galsses as her eyesight was going so I gave her the money to buy some proper glasses, a couple of hundered quid. Her and my sister went to fucking Blackpool with it, she still doesn't have glasses now years later.

 

Sister was constantly putting the kids toys in to pawn, borrowing against benifits coming in all of it a fucking disaster, the amount of stress and anxiety it creates musst be off the scale for them as they're always ducking and diving.

 

The total debt they were carrying was proably no more than one/two grand in total, but it was owed all over the place in small amounts and created it's own cycle.

 

I have no advice as everything I tried failed and my sister if anything is worse now, four kids she can't afford, dead leg boyfriend, no job, no ambition and still on the scrounge and blaming the world and everyone but herself for it.

 

My mums better, but still in cycles of boom and bust where i need to bail her out, the big one will come in a few years when she retires as she lives in insecure housing and obviously has no savings, she's fucked and I'm going to have to fix it as she's useless at getting anything practical done and has no bargaining chips.

 

I ain't got much to offer, but if you want to bounce some ideas around let me know I'll happily be a sounding board.

 

 

 

 

Cheers mate.

 

Yeah, that's the vibe I'm getting, kind of like it'll be endless and the more I pony up the more I become the go-to ATM.

 

It's funny, and I've heard this from a couple of people whose family dynamics are similar, because I'm the only one who works and have a bit more money, the vibe seems to be that I owe them some of it, and that if I spend some of it on myself but don't give them some too, it's somehow not fair.

 

We had a big holiday a couple of years back, Mrs was dead excited and told her folks, she asked if I'd told mine and I said no, because they'd see it as something which would make them feel less guilty about asking me for stuff.

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39 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Any advice on this? 

 

My mum has been borrowing money off me for the last few weeks, and off my uncle too (which she doesn't know I know). She's given him bits of it back but none to me. She keeps saying 'ooh I feel terrible, I'll be able to give you some back on (insert random day here). 

 

It all amounted to about 90 quid which she said she'd give me yesterday but didn't. Instead she gave my uncle 20 back, and this morning messaged asking if I could lend her a hundred. She kindly provided her bank details so I could. 

 

As ever, I strongly suspect my sister is at the root of it. I got out of my mum that she only gives her 200 quid keep out of her benefits. When my mum got her own benefits increased, my sister reduced what she gave her in rent by the same amount. 

 

When she initially started borrowing money a few weeks back, she was supposedly stranded in town as 'the bank was shut'. I wasn't going to lend her any as I knew it'd turn into an ongoing thing, but my Mrs insisted so we transferred it in out of the joint. My mum has now fessed up that she'd spent her money that day in the arcade (which I suspect is a fib too).

 

The bottom line is this. She's subsidising my cunt sister's lifestyle so, by default, so am I now too. But she's happy to let me do it, despite all the mealy mouthed apologies.

 

Anyway, to draw a line under this, I'm thinking of just letting her keep all the money she owes me but saying that's it, I can't afford to lend her anymore in the future. Which I can't, not at the rate I've been dishing it out. I'll also offer to sit down with them both and try and organise their finances, which I suspect will be firmly declined.

 

Is that fair?

 

 

I have a family member who I had to take a similar stance with, I lent lots of money, none of it back, its further complicated by the fact that he is a substance abuser, but after a while I just said "these arent loans, you just steal from me, because you have no intention of paying me back, you just lie to get the dough". He was of course appalled by this and called me all the silly bastards under the sun, but I said "you can keep what you have had but no more, for my own self respect I cant let you keep taking the piss out of me, we are done". Hes not happy, and I realise I have probably just moved the problem along, but I just couldnt go there anymore. I tried the budgeting approach with him yonks ago, but he wasnt having any. I realise thats not much help, but its not just you and you arent wrong to resent it.

 

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6 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

 

Cheers mate.

 

Yeah, that's the vibe I'm getting, kind of like it'll be endless and the more I pony up the more I become the go-to ATM.

 

It's funny, and I've heard this from a couple of people whose family dynamics are similar, because I'm the only one who works and have a bit more money, the vibe seems to be that I owe them some of it, and that if I spend some of it on myself but don't give them some too, it's somehow not fair.

 

We had a big holiday a couple of years back, Mrs was dead excited and told her folks, she asked if I'd told mine and I said no, because they'd see it as something which would make them feel less guilty about asking me for stuff.

 

My last exchange with my sister was about six years back.

 

I adore my niece and nephew, they were the first kids in our family, so we doted on them.

 

I always brought them down to london for a week in the summer holiday and spoilt them rotten, but my sister put and end to because, to quote 'You don't fucking care about me, you only want to see the kids so you're never seeing them again' and i haven't, neither has my mother. 

 

I get the last bit, makes sense, you almost don't want to be happy around them as their lot is so miserable.

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10 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

 

My last exchange with my sister was about six years back.

 

I adore my niece and nephew, they were the first kids in our family, so we doted on them.

 

I always brought them down to london for a week in the summer holiday and spoilt them rotten, but my sister put and end to because, to quote 'You don't fucking care about me, you only want to see the kids so you're never seeing them again' and i haven't, neither has my mother. 

 

I get the last bit, makes sense, you almost don't want to be happy around them as their lot is so miserable.

Weaponising your children is the worst in the world. And you can guarantee the kids are miserable too, but thats not important in these games.

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1 hour ago, Section_31 said:

Any advice on this? 

 

My mum has been borrowing money off me for the last few weeks, and off my uncle too (which she doesn't know I know). She's given him bits of it back but none to me. She keeps saying 'ooh I feel terrible, I'll be able to give you some back on (insert random day here). 

 

It all amounted to about 90 quid which she said she'd give me yesterday but didn't. Instead she gave my uncle 20 back, and this morning messaged asking if I could lend her a hundred. She kindly provided her bank details so I could. 

 

As ever, I strongly suspect my sister is at the root of it. I got out of my mum that she only gives her 200 quid keep out of her benefits. When my mum got her own benefits increased, my sister reduced what she gave her in rent by the same amount. 

 

When she initially started borrowing money a few weeks back, she was supposedly stranded in town as 'the bank was shut'. I wasn't going to lend her any as I knew it'd turn into an ongoing thing, but my Mrs insisted so we transferred it in out of the joint. My mum has now fessed up that she'd spent her money that day in the arcade (which I suspect is a fib too).

 

The bottom line is this. She's subsidising my cunt sister's lifestyle so, by default, so am I now too. But she's happy to let me do it, despite all the mealy mouthed apologies.

 

Anyway, to draw a line under this, I'm thinking of just letting her keep all the money she owes me but saying that's it, I can't afford to lend her anymore in the future. Which I can't, not at the rate I've been dishing it out. I'll also offer to sit down with them both and try and organise their finances, which I suspect will be firmly declined.

 

Is that fair?

 

It sounds like yer ma is using the money you give her to repay a bit to your uncle and keep him onside while leaning more on you.

 

Are you sure your ma doesnt have a gambling habit if she's saying she spent it down the arcade?

 

I guess in the scheme of things, what she spends it on doesnt matter unless she really is finding it hard with rocketing gas and leccie bills etc.

 

It's hard saying to yer ma no money but at the same time, you cant keep handing over a 100 every week. Maybe say you cannot keep giving her money going forward but say you'll drop a bag of shopping, say, 25 quid's worth every now and then?

 

And what kind of sister unilaterally reduces her board money to her ma just because your ma's benefits increased?! It might cause a lot more friction but maybe have it out with your sister that giving her ma less board because her benefits increased is really robbing of her at a time of life she doesnt need and shouldn't have?

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1 hour ago, melons said:

More than fair. 

I'd say you're skint and this has battered your finances over the last month and it can't keep on, its obvious things are hard now, and given the way the cuts are going, lecky going up etc, the winter is going to be really hard - maybe we should sit down so we can work out how you're going to manage the winter - you help them look at changing suppliers etc... It's all bull shit, but it makes you look lesser of the cunt, which no doubt they'll call you as thats what mine all call me when the money tap has to be turned off. 

I had that with our kid. Kept calling me with bullshit like could he lend £20 until he got paid after the weekend, or that he had no food in for his lunches for work. When it got to £100 (not a massive amount, but it's the principle), and I told him 'no', I too got called all the cunts in the world.

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18 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

It sounds like yer ma is using the money you give her to repay a bit to your uncle and keep him onside while leaning more on you.

 

Are you sure your ma doesnt have a gambling habit if she's saying she spent it down the arcade?

 

I guess in the scheme of things, what she spends it on doesnt matter unless she really is finding it hard with rocketing gas and leccie bills etc.

 

It's hard saying to yer ma no money but at the same time, you cant keep handing over a 100 every week. Maybe say you cannot keep giving her money going forward but say you'll drop a bag of shopping, say, 25 quid's worth every now and then?

 

And what kind of sister unilaterally reduces her board money to her ma just because your ma's benefits increased?! It might cause a lot more friction but maybe have it out with your sister that giving her ma less board because her benefits increased is really robbing of her at a time of life she doesnt need and shouldn't have?

 

Me sister is a cunt, like, I suspect a genuine sociopath, but my mum will hear not a bad word said against her. 

 

Basically, my two options are either subsidise my sister's lifestyle by giving my mum money, or don't give her money and feel a son's guilt.

 

All of this was avoidable. I said when her fella died they should sit down with the citizens advice or something and work out ingoings and outgoings but they never did, basically the whole household is geared around my sister paying the minimal possible keep, and my mum gets around that now seemingly by asking for money off others, but would never, ever, hear a bad word said about her for it.

 

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I think you're best being truthful about your reasons for stopping the handouts, try and be tactful and offer practical help and to sit down with her and get organised.  And like someone said above, if she's genuinely short of money for food etc offer to buy her a few bits now and then. But being truthful is risky, she might fall out with you, or she may just fall out with you for saying no anyway.  So ultimately you need to decide if you can handle that, you and your wife as it will impact both.

 

I have a sibling who's been in a bit of a financial mess on and off, mostly though being lazy and wasteful.  I often think if I won the lottery I wouldn't give them a penny directly as they'd only fritter it away.  I'd offer to pay off debts and get them a fresh start and footing, and some professional help, and be clear that that's it, the rest is up to them.

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7 minutes ago, Moo said:

I think you're best being truthful about your reasons for stopping the handouts, try and be tactful and offer practical help and to sit down with her and get organised.  And like someone said above, if she's genuinely short of money for food etc offer to buy her a few bits now and then. But being truthful is risky, she might fall out with you, or she may just fall out with you for saying no anyway.  So ultimately you need to decide if you can handle that, you and your wife as it will impact both.

 

I have a sibling who's been in a bit of a financial mess on and off, mostly though being lazy and wasteful.  I often think if I won the lottery I wouldn't give them a penny directly as they'd only fritter it away.  I'd offer to pay off debts and get them a fresh start and footing, and some professional help, and be clear that that's it, the rest is up to them.

 

Me and my uncle do buy her food. Also, I take her out most weeks for lunch, brews etc, me sister never does. She wouldn't be off with me for stopping lending her money, it would be more about how I'd feel, I'd feel like shit if I thought she had no food in the cupboard of the heating was off, but by the same token I can't trust the resosns she'd give for that being the case, it could literally be because my sister has decided to buy herself 200 quid's worth of makeup rather than pay her share of the rent, and even if I saw the proof with my own eyes, my mum would say it's not true.

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1 minute ago, Section_31 said:

 

Me and my uncle do buy her food. Also, I take her out most weeks for lunch, brews etc, me sister never does. She wouldn't be off with me for stopping lending her money, it would be more about how I'd feel, I'd feel like shit if I thought she had no food in the cupboard of the heating was off, but by the same token I can't trust the resosns she'd give for that being the case, it could literally be because my sister has decided to buy herself 200 quids worth of makeup rather than pay her share of the rent.

There's not much else you can do mate. You have given her money which is being spent recklessly and not on the intended purpose of the loan.

 

I'd stop giving her anything and if you do help in future just buy bits of food etc instead.

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7 minutes ago, Clem H Fandango said:

Cut your losses and save your family from anymore grief. No good will come from being a cash cow.

Thats the pragmatic, "sensible" view, and I arrived there in my situation after many years. But it still hurts, and you feel guilty no matter how much you rationalise it because you didnt help someone, even though you know you were being had over.

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2 minutes ago, redinblack said:

Thats the pragmatic, "sensible" view, and I arrived there in my situation after many years. But it still hurts, and you feel guilty no matter how much you rationalise it because you didnt help someone, even though you know you were being had over.

A so called good friend of mine once borrowed £50 for a pool tournament. He didn't win, and for months after was always making excuses as to not pay up

A year later, we were both in a tournament with 500 up for grabs. We both met in the final and after narrowly being beaten 9-8 I asked for my £50 back. His reply was he couldn't afford it.

Needless to say the red mist descended and had to be pulled off the prick.

 

People take the piss regardless of blood. 

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3 minutes ago, Clem H Fandango said:

A so called good friend of mine once borrowed £50 for a pool tournament. He didn't win, and for months after was always making excuses as to not pay up

A year later, we were both in a tournament with 500 up for grabs. We both met in the final and after narrowly being beaten 9-8 I asked for my £50 back. His reply was he couldn't afford it.

Needless to say the red mist descended and had to be pulled off the prick.

 

People take the piss regardless of blood. 

They do, I wouldnt disagree, I was just saying that when it is a relative some people may feel duty bound to help, even if they may know deep down they are being had over.

 

That said, I hope you stuck a pool cue up his arse at a later date.

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4 minutes ago, Clem H Fandango said:

A so called good friend of mine once borrowed £50 for a pool tournament. He didn't win, and for months after was always making excuses as to not pay up

A year later, we were both in a tournament with 500 up for grabs. We both met in the final and after narrowly being beaten 9-8 I asked for my £50 back. His reply was he couldn't afford it.

Needless to say the red mist descended and had to be pulled off the prick.

 

People take the piss regardless of blood. 

 

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This might sound really harsh  Mark but yours and your Mrs happiness should be your main concern, anyone who impacts on that should no longer be a concern of yours.  Genuinely mate, you've absolutely no reason to feel any guilt from any of this. You've maybe been guilty of being too accomodating if anything.

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It’s naturally going to be hard telling your mum no, because she’s your mum, but you shouldn’t feel guilty about it as she’s not being honest with you, your uncle, or indeed herself.

 

Make the offer to sit down and budget for her. I’d fuck your sister off though, as she sounds like a right little cow.

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People who have hardly ever worked in their life have very little concept of money. One family member who has been a complete bum since she left school once said "it's OK for you as you work".

 

I came very close to launching her out the house after she said that. She's a fucking lazy twat as well who pleads poverty at every step. We lent her 50 quid last year as she said she couldn't afford bread or milk yet last week she somehow afforded to go to Blackpool and stay in a hotel. She said she had completely forgot about the £50 but has made no effort or talked to us about paying it back. She seems to think that people just get paid to turn up and sit off, not that you actually have to work and put hard graft in. She even had the cheek to say to her Dad that as he got a higher paying job that he could afford to lend her more money!

 

You are right about holidays and the way people make you feel guilty.  Years ago I went on holiday to America after working 7 days a week for months and never going out. I told my family and they had a face on making me feel guilty about spending a couple of grand on something I'd wanted to do for years. I didn't even show them any of my holiday photos or tell them what I'd done when I came home as all I would have got would have been questions about how much stuff costed etc. 

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16 hours ago, Section_31 said:

Anyway, to draw a line under this, I'm thinking of just letting her keep all the money she owes me but saying that's it, I can't afford to lend her anymore in the future. Which I can't, not at the rate I've been dishing it out. I'll also offer to sit down with them both and try and organise their finances, which I suspect will be firmly declined.

  

Is that fair?

Completely. I don’t have much to add that hasn’t been said already. You need to be really clear about what you will and won’t do in the future. 
 

I have an alcoholic brother, loaned (gave - he never paid any of it back) him money for years.
 

All I was doing was subsidising his addiction as any money went on alcohol, rather than the bills, food, clothes etc. he claimed it was for. In the end, I’d take him to the supermarket and let him fill a trolley. He did this, of course, but had zero interest in this kind of help.

 

I struggle now to have anything to do with him, it’s going to sound weak but my mental health just isn’t strong enough. He regularly ends up in hospital for one reason or another. Mainly due to the epilepsy he suffers from. He was there last week, broke his jaw. I didn’t even go see him. When they released him, he needed some shoes. I could have taken him some, I didn’t. 
 

The guilt is easier to live with. 
 

At some point, I need to reconnect and try and help him again. This is will be a selfish act as I know that if/when he dies and I haven’t done the things I should have as his older brother, then I will be in serious trouble mentally.

 

Helping your mum without damaging yourself (short and long term) sounds a difficult balance to find. I think your intended action as about as close to it as you can find.

 

Hope it works out. 

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Feel for you having to make that decision, but I agree with most that you have to.

 

I’ll almost certainly never share the full details in here, but I’ve seen in the last year with my ex mother in law just how fucking awful a family can be, and so we’ve reached the point where we’re probably going to be sending a solicitors letter for confirm she can’t attempt to contact my daughter unless it’s through formal channels, and won’t get to see her unless she first pays for a mediated meeting with me, and even then not without supervision.

 

I was astounded at how she was behaving and couldn’t believe a person could be the cunt that she has been, but my missus - how knows of her actions but has never met her - seemingly knows her to a tee and has met her hundreds of times before through being in the police.

 

her shithouse games and tactics were unbelievable to me, and yet to her we’re just run of the mill, by the book behaviours.

 

breaks my heart that I had to take my girl out for a walk and a talk the day after her birthday to explain what something written

im her birthday card meant, and that her grandma isn’t being very nice (euphemism) to her (dying) mum and that if she can’t be a good mum, then she can’t be a good grandma because being nice to your mum is the most important thing.

 

cunt.

 

sorry to hijack. Sort of spilled out.

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