Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[dennis tooth]

 

 

Fucking bullshit

The NHS saved my life last year. 7 bloody months in hospital. Where would i have been with insurance based system,fucking dead thats where or in hundreds of thousands of pounds of debt that i could never have paid off. Major surgery,abdominal drains the bloody lot. Shitting the bed as i had no control,constantly heaving. Never one complaint or bad look or moan from the staff.

Nation insurance contributions don't goto the nhs sir.

[Spy Bee]

70% of 18-24 year olds voted to remain

Gutted for them most of all

What was the turnout in that age range?

[Strontium]

70% of 18-24 year olds voted to remain

Gutted for them most of all

It's honestly time we introduced some Logan's Run style shit into proceedings.

[Sputnik1]

No confidence vote on Corbyn, knives out quickly. 

[Boss]

In the words of David Bowie "Scotland stay with us".

[Section_31]

this the one?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/24/eu-referendum-working-class-revolt-grieve

 

Yep. 

 

 

 Britain has voted to leave the European Union: here is a statement that continues to shock leavers and remainers alike. Earlier this month I wrote that “unless a working-class Britain that feels betrayed by the political elite can be persuaded, then Britain will vote to leave the European Union in less than two weeks”. And this – perhaps the most dramatic event in Britain since the war – was, above all else, a working-class revolt. It may not have been the working-class revolt against the political establishment that many of us favoured, but it is undeniable that this result was achieved off the back of furious, alienated working-class votes.

 Guardian writers on the vote to leave

Polly Toynbee, Matthew d'Ancona, Suzanne Moore

 

 

Read more

Britain is an intensely divided nation. Many of the communities that voted most decisively for leave were the same communities that have suffered the greatest battering under successive governments. The government’s Project Fearrelied on threats of economic turmoil. But these are communities that have been defined by economic turmoil and insecurity for a generation. Threats that you will lose everything mean little if you already feel you have little to lose. These threats may well have deepened the resolve of many leavers, rather than undermined it. A Conservative prime minister lined up corporate titans and the US president to warn them not to do something: they responded with the biggest up-yours in modern British history.

This was not a vote on the undeniable lack of accountability and transparency of the European Union. Above all else, it was about immigration, which has become the prism through which millions of people see everyday problems: the lack of affordable housing; the lack of secure jobs; stagnating living standards; strained public services. Young remainers living in major urban centres tend to feel limited hostility towards immigration; it could hardly be more different for older working-class leavers in many northern cities and smaller towns. Indeed, the generational gap is critical to understanding this result. The growing chasm between the generations has only been deepened.

 

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Asking Labour voters to flock to back a flawed status quo endorsed by a Conservative prime minister was always going to be a tough ask. Most of them did, but not enough to compensate for the leave flood. And now what? Scotland has been dragged out of the EU against its will, and the demands for another independence referendum will be difficult to resist. Sinn Féin is calling for a border poll. Economic turmoil beckons: the debate is how significant and protracted it will be. A new, more rightwing Conservative administration seems inevitable: it will undoubtedly pursue a new election, hopefully when Labour is in as divided and chaotic a state as possible. Campaigns to defend threatened workers’ rights and the NHS will be more important than ever. The EU will be consumed with panic about its very existence. These are inevitable political realities to confront.

As for David Cameron. He called a referendum not because he thought it was in the national interest, but because it was useful to manage internal Conservative divisions. The referendum was inevitably framed as a struggle between two Conservative factions. Ironically, Cameron winning the last election was his downfall. If he had won just a handful fewer seats and failed to secure a majority – as he expected – he may not have had to honour his referendum pledge. In a matter of months, he went from suggesting he could support British withdrawal from the EU to warning of economic Armageddon if the country did so. It looked preposterous. He spent years suggesting immigration was a huge problem that needed to be massively reduced, and failed to do so, breeding further contempt and fury.

If the left has a future in Britain, it must confront its disconnect with the lives of working-class people

But while much of the blame must be attributed to Cameron, far greater social forces are at play. From Donald Trump to Bernie Sanders, from Syriza in Greece to Podemos in Spain, from the Austrian far-right to the rise of the Scottish independence movement, this is an era of seething resentment against elites. That frustration is spilling out in all sorts of directions: new left movements, civic nationalism, anti-immigrant populism.

 

Many of the nearly half of the British people who voted remain now feel scared and angry, ready to lash out at their fellow citizens. But this will make things worse. Many of the leavers already felt marginalised, ignored and hated. The contempt – and sometimes snobbery – now being shown about leavers on social media was already felt by these communities, and contributed to this verdict. Millions of Britons feel that a metropolitan elite rules the roost which not only doesn’t understand their values and lives, but actively hates them. If Britain is to have a future, this escalating culture war has to be stopped. The people of Britain have spoken. That is democracy, and we now have to make the country’s verdict work.

If the left has a future in Britain, it must confront its own cultural and political disconnect with the lives and communities of working-class people. It must prepare for how it responds to a renewed offensive by an ascendant Tory right. On the continent, movements championing a more democratic and just Europe are more important than ever. None of this is easy – but it is necessary. Grieve now if you must, but prepare for the great challenges ahead.

 

The bit in bold reminds me a lot of what I've seen all morning. 'Turkeys voting for Christmas' etc. It's not though is it? If I live in the back end of Burnley and haven't had a job for 15 years, why should I give a flying fuck  that some blert has to pay more for their holiday money? 

[deiseach]

Well you seem to be switching the subject matter like a few have done when the reality is pointed out. You're now talking genralist 'brexit' when we were talking people entering the UK via Ireland after the UK leaves the EU.

 

Seems to be a lot of hyperventilating goingon in this thread, people talking about moving to scotland etc, they could already move to Ireland if they were really that bothered.

 

You have no idea what the 'reality' of Brexit is. That isn't hyperbole. No one can be certain what is going to happen. I hope you are right. I worry that you are wrong.

[Guest LFD]

Partridge knew.

 

[ZonkoVille77]

No confidence vote on Corbyn, knives out quickly. 

 

Cunts using any excuse to get at him.

[Anubis]

Commentary from the FT.

 

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/OffsideLiam/status/746269682999631872/photo/1

[jimmycase]

You have no idea what the 'reality' of Brexit is. That isn't hyperbole. No one can be certain what is going to happen. I hope you are right. I worry that you are wrong.

 

Ive no more idea what the reality of brexit is then you have. But, I dont believe or think its all doom and gloom.

 

I think its appalling people think our country, the UK, cannot stand alone and prosper outside the EU.

 

If I remember correct, didnt the Irish Republic have two referenda on the Treay of Maastricht? The UK got none, nada, zip. We last had a vote on staying in \ joining the common market to the EEC back in 75. That has morphed into the EU without endorsement from the UK. The referendum result rights that wrong.

 

The EU could have struck a deal with the UK on concessions but decided to play hardball. The EU lost and may very well now see one or two more EU members push for their own referendum. The EU didnt learn its lesson over the treaty of Maastricht.

[Section_31]

Commentary from the FT.

 

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/OffsideLiam/status/746269682999631872/photo/1

 

The younger generation can still live and work abroad though, they'll just need a permit.

 

The post facts politics is a good point, but it's the media that's responsible for it, probably not the FT to be fair, but still. 

[magicrat]

Sadly I would agree with that. This is another problem with our first past the post system. In a more fairly represented parliament, corbyn could continue to represent his views honestly and take the share of Parliament that it rewarded. As it is, he'll either take the worst kicking in living memory for a Labour leader or he'll end up being forced out or needing to be less honest.

The one unexpected result of this is that we could end up with PR.

Its not impossible to see the Tories calling a snap election or even losing a confidence vote they are so divided. If Labour decided they had little chance of getting back under FPTP  they could throw their weight behind PR and assuming the Tories didn't have an absolute majority it could succeed,  

[Lee909]

Whats the chances of moves behind the scenes to bring that cuntstain Hillary Benn in to run the labour party. You'd get Torie or Torie light

[kalasoma]

Jack Blanchard ‏@Jack_Blanchard_  2h2 hours agoCity of London, London

Several Labour MPs think one of Dan Jarvis, Angela Eagle or John McDonnell will be their leader within a pretty short space of time

[Scott_M]

So the promise of extra money to the NHS and blocks on immigration, the 2 pillars of which the leave vote were built on, are already proved to be bollocks.

 

Fucking hell.

[jimmycase]

Whats the chances of moves behind the scenes to bring that cuntstain Hillary Benn in to run the labour party. You'd get Torie or Torie light

 

Just as likely Chuka would step forward and become leader so long as he doesnt pull his trick again.

[dennis tooth]

No confidence vote on Corbyn, knives out quickly.

He would see it off and emerge stronger

[Champ]

Woman on BBC now who voted Leave to get more money for the NHS. 'I just hope they do what they said they'd do'

[Boss]

If he survives it he needs to start getting the knives out, he's too passive, he needs to crush the dissent in his own party. 

[Moctezuma]

Woman on BBC now who voted Leave to get more money for the NHS. 'I just hope they do what they said they'd do'

 

Hahahahahahahahahaha

[deiseach]

Woman on BBC now who voted Leave to get more money for the NHS. 'I just hope they do what they said they'd do'

 

Bless...

[Cardie]

So the promise of extra money to the NHS and blocks on immigration, the 2 pillars of which the leave vote were built on, are already proved to be bollocks.

 

Fucking hell.

Whats the immigration back track?

[Scott_M]

Whats the immigration back track?

Johnson saying 'the drawbridge won't be raised anytime soon'.

[Moctezuma]

Johnson saying 'the drawbridge won't be raised anytime soon'.

 

Of course it fucking won't, the only reason immigration will decrease is because the economy will be tanking.