Scottish Independence, yay or nay?

[Champ]

20 minutes ago, Captain Turdseye said:

You could be out of the clutches of the Tories forever…

I’ve got the tennis on. I’ll get back to you with my workings

[Captain Turdseye]

2 minutes ago, Mook said:

No, they're not but their neoliberal politics aren't a million miles away & the amount of them being caught up to no good in various circumstances isn't dissimilar either.

Once you’re out of the union though, which I guess is their main (only?) aim, wouldn’t that pave the way for new parties to emerge? It’s not like by leaving the UK, you’re confining yourselves to endless one party rule. Surely it’d be the opposite as you look to find your standing as an independent country. A different Labour movement, a Green Party, etc. 
 

We’d be stuck with our Tories, while the same wouldn’t necessarily have to apply to you after the SNP have served their purpose

[Mook]

12 minutes ago, Captain Turdseye said:

Once you’re out of the union though, which I guess is their main (only?) aim, wouldn’t that pave the way for new parties to emerge? It’s not like by leaving the UK, you’re confining yourselves to endless one party rule. Surely it’d be the opposite as you look to find your standing as an independent country. A different Labour movement, a Green Party, etc. 
 

We’d be stuck with our Tories, while the same wouldn’t necessarily have to apply to you after the SNP have served their purpose

Aye, I think the long term future as an independent Scotland could be bright.

 

It's the 20 years after a Yes vote I worry about though. I think it would be a mess.

[Chairman Meow]

16 hours ago, Section_31 said:

They'd be mental to not try it, if the North West voted to up sticks I'd be out campaigning.

The way the current government are going if Northumberland were lumped in with Scotland I'd be doing the same. 

 

 

[Jairzinho]

Might be easier to just allow the South East to become their own country.

[Section_31]

12 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

Might be easier to just allow the South East to become their own country.

Then invade, Stanis Baratheon style.

[Creator Supreme]

39 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

Might be easier to just allow the South East to become their own country.

Cut it off just north of Middlesex, and launch it out West into the Atlantic! I'm in.

[SasaS]

1 hour ago, Jairzinho said:

Might be easier to just allow the South East to become their own country.

Would they mind? They seem to have all the money.

[RedKnight]

18 hours ago, Creator Supreme said:

No arguments here. I've said for ages if the Taff's wanted to go for independence we should go with them.

Yeah, calling us that will really get on us onboard...

[Champ]

14 hours ago, Captain Turdseye said:

You could be out of the clutches of the Tories forever…

 

14 hours ago, Mook said:

On the other side of the coin, Labour is dead in Scotland & The SNP are just tartan tories with better PR so perhaps not.

I honestly don’t know where to start and equally as an English person living in Scotland I don’t know if I have any right to be part of such a life changing decision.

 

If I look around the world, to places that I don’t have a stake in I would ‘probably always’ lean towards countries seeking their independence from another country but in this situation it really does feel that the Scottish independence argument is way more heart than head. And that’s not the criticism it may sound because if I was Scottish independence may seem quite logical but from my point of view I can’t get past the obstacles of creating an entirely new national infrastructure when we can’t even get people to work in the industries we do have and the cost of all that and how it will be funded, all seen through the lens of the Brexit catastrophe. My affinity is far more inclined towards people with similar interests and values than simple nationality.

 

Oh and I can’t tell you how divisive the build up to the last referendum was and the thought of opening those old wounds again makes me feel a bit ill 

[Creator Supreme]

38 minutes ago, RedKnight said:

Yeah, calling us that will really get on us onboard...

In that case I apologise.

 

If the wonderful people of Wales wanted to go for independence, I would love them to invite us along for the ride!

[RedKnight]

11 minutes ago, Creator Supreme said:

In that case I apologise.

 

If the wonderful people of Wales wanted to go for independence, I would love them to invite us along for the ride!

You're in.

[Atticus Finch]

[an tha]

Anything that breaks up the Tories precious "Union" is a winner with me.

[Anubis]

Think you need to slice Wales off as well.

[lifetime fan]

Scotland can have their referendum as long as they agree to vote through PR and reduce the voting age to 16 at Westminster before going solo. 

[Section_31]

16 minutes ago, an tha said:

Anything that breaks up the Tories precious "Union" is a winner with me.

Problem is Wales and Scotland are a big source of labour votes (not Scotland any more) so we'll be stuck in Tory England - forever. It will consist of the shires and everywhere north of Bristol will look like Terminator 2.

 

There'll be billboards that say 'levelling up, coming soon to a town near you.' next to a betting shop and a dead homeless bloke. Actually, that sounds a lot like now.

[Fugitive]

It sound great but the SNP are fucking useless at getting anything done around here. If they get independence, they will not have clue what to do next.

 

They remind me of the underpants gnomes.

 

 

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 hour ago, Anubis said:

Think you need to slice Wales off as well.

There’s quite a few around wanting Welsh independence these days. Hilarious. 

[Champ]

27 minutes ago, Fugitive said:

It sound great but the SNP are fucking useless at getting anything done around here. If they get independence, they will not have clue what to do next.

 

They remind me of the underpants gnomes.

 

 

Interesting that none of us who actually live in Scotland have expressed any enthusiasm so far.

All very well in theory but I wouldn’t know where to start to actually put it in to practice.

It blows my mind the number that would want to keep the monarchy

[Section_31]

3 minutes ago, Champ said:

Interesting that none of us who actually live in Scotland have expressed any enthusiasm so far.

All very well in theory but I wouldn’t know where to start to actually put it in to practice.

It blows my mind the number that would want to keep the monarchy

How come nobody votes Labour up there now as an alternative to the SNP?

[Megadrive Man]

26 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

How come nobody votes Labour up there now as an alternative to the SNP?

My ex was Scottish and I asked her Dad and uncle about this.

 

It's mainly because so many of ex Labour votes moved over to SNP, so now if you don't want SNP you need to vote tactically for the party most likely to beat them.

 

Also the perception of Scottish Labour is/was that they were no different to the Tories.  The SNP scrapping tuition fees and prescription charges were seen as something that Labour should have done when they were in power.

 

Interested to hear other thoughts on this.

 

Also I still don't understand why this particular Tory government isn't open to independence? I'd understand if May was still in charge, but Johnson isn't the sort of person that is bothered about the union. 

From an electoral point of view, Scottish independence would give Johnson an even bigger majority!

[Bruce Spanner]

3 hours ago, Atticus Finch said:

 

 

[Megadrive Man]

8 hours ago, Champ said:

Oh and I can’t tell you how divisive the build up to the last referendum was and the thought of opening those old wounds again makes me feel a bit ill 

 

Yeah I was shocked at how toxic the whole issue of independence is. To the point where my ex's dad asked me not to ever bring it up as a topic of discussion at family events.

 

I'm really surprised at how hard the SNP appear to be pushing for it. If they make the next general election a one question issue based on independence,I think it will massively backfire.

[Bruce Spanner]

8 minutes ago, MegadriveMan said:

My ex was Scottish and I asked her Dad and uncle about this.

 

It's mainly because so many of ex Labour votes moved over to SNP, so now if you don't want SNP you need to vote tactically for the party most likely to beat them.

 

Also the perception of Scottish Labour is/was that they were no different to the Tories.  The SNP scraping tuition fees and prescription charges were seen as something that Labour should have done when they were in power.

 

Interested to hear other thoughts on this.

 

Also I still don't understand why this particular Tory government isn't open to independence? I'd understand if May was still in charge, but Johnson isn't the sort of person that is bothered about the union. 

From an electoral point of view, Scottish independence would give Johnson an even bigger majority!

 

They are the Conservative and Unionist party, name kinda gives it away.