Faith and Religion

[Strontium]

I've tried this with you before and got nowhere, but let's give it another go...

 

Surely by stopping/abolishing religion, you're telling people what they can think?

 

I don't see how trying to persuade people to abandon superstitious beliefs of their own free will constitutes telling them what they can think? You are going to have to explain that one to me.

[polymerpunkah]

I was in Hanoi a couple of years ago and went to early Sunday mass at the Cathedral (built on the site of an 800-year-old Buddhist Pagoda the French tore down to build the Cathedral). 

 

7 AM, and it was packed. 400 or so people, singing, praying, the whole nine yards.

 

Quite a moving experience, actually, even for an athiest like me.

 

The church there, even though suppressed (though not wiped out) by the government, is thriving. 

 

I was also struck by the fact that the interior was pristine--beautiful paintings, statuary, stained glass windows. All original as far as I could tell.

 

I'd love to know if Ho decided to keep it as it was because he thought it would serve as some sort of relic of a bygone age, or because he realized that the church, and religion, weren't going anywhere, anytime soon.

[Strontium]

I'd love to know if Ho decided to keep it as it was because he thought it would serve as some sort of relic of a bygone age, or because he realized that the church, and religion, weren't going anywhere, anytime soon.

 

Probably figured that outright destruction of cultural heritage would be too similar to the Christians who tore down an ancient Buddhist temple to build a cathedral in the first place.

[Rico1304]

Just introduce doubt. 5 days secular education v max of 2 religious and see what wins out.

[Hand Shandy]

I'm a fascist? Not sure if you're joking. Should be dead easy to prove though.

 

I think it'd be impossible to ban, and not sure banning would have the desired effect. Let people worship how they want in their own homes as long as it doesn't impact anyone else. Make education and law religion free zones. No religious exemptions anywhere. Full taxation for all churches.

Crypto-fascist. Get it right.

 

And yes, I was joking.

[Red Phoenix]

*looks skywards*

 

[VladimirIlyich]

It's like when people say 'all muslims condone terrorism'

 

Only, I've never heard anyone make that argument, because it's a really seriously fucking stupid one.

 

The crux of the issue is, put someone in a position of power and there is a decent chance that power will corrupt them. Be it the Catholic Church, government, the BBC; cunts will find a way to impose their will, to the detriment of the innocent. I don't like the idea of tarring groups of people with the same brush. It skews the point.

Shut it,you sensible bastard.

[Jose Jones]

moof, on 23 Aug 2017 - 9:00 PM, said:

 

It's like when people say 'all muslims condone terrorism'

 

Only, I've never heard anyone make that argument, because it's a really seriously fucking stupid one.

 

The crux of the issue is, put someone in a position of power and there is a decent chance that power will corrupt them. Be it the Catholic Church, government, the BBC; cunts will find a way to impose their will, to the detriment of the innocent. I don't like the idea of tarring groups of people with the same brush. It skews the point.

That's slightly the wrong comparison.

A correct one would be if someone knew that a particular stream of Islam promoted, aided and abetted terrorism - let's say Islamic State for example.

They didn't carry out any terrorism themselves, but after knowing that IS was proven from the top on down to enable terrorism and persecute the victims of terrorism that they decided they were still a member of Islamic State.

 

The catholic church from the top on down, across many countries, with loads of priests enabled the raping of thousands of kids. Then the organisation from the top on down persecuted the victims.

 

Everyone knows this, then people decide to still attend services and give the organisation money.

[Hades]

So now we're not only telling people in our country what they can and can't believe in, but people in other countries as well?

 

People generally get a bit grumpy when you do that...

 

Oh, and don't get me wrong - I fully believe the world would be a much better place without religion. It just isn't going to happen.

 

I absolutely disagree that the world would be a better place without Buddhism. Perhaps without hellfire and brimstone Abrahamic religions, sure. 

[G Richards]

Buddhists seem to have the best PR among the irreligious. Lots of bad stuff done by Buddhists in Thailand, for example. I have good friends there. Not going into details, but suffice to say, Buddhists have good PR with the irreligious.

[skend04]

Aren't Buddhists killing Muslims in Myanmar?

 

Personally speaking the world would be a better place if theists and atheists weren't allowed to make money out of their beliefs or lack thereof. Why can't believers and non-believers espouse their views FoC? Everyone wants to write a book or have collections or do tours and sell their version of whatever they're selling.

[Rico1304]

Aren't Buddhists killing Muslims in Myanmar?

 

Personally speaking the world would be a better place if theists and atheists weren't allowed to make money out of their beliefs or lack thereof. Why can't believers and non-believers espouse their views FoC? Everyone wants to write a book or have collections or do tours and sell their version of whatever they're selling.

Ha ha genius. Free science books!

[Lee909]

Yeah there are issue with Buddhists in certain places. Quiet how to can beat people up,murder etc and be a Buddhist is beyond me. Though akot of Samurai were buddhist.

 

The reason i think Buddhism doesn't get the same shit as the other major religion is due to its willingness to change if proof is found.

 

 

Also when this guy is the generally look upon head of you religion you'll do ok

 

https://youtu.be/P9RZ3n7sR9w

[Hades]

Yeah, Buddhism in practice as a demographic has problems associated with poverty and lack of education but I've found it more helpful and rational on a day to day basis than the other religions.

[Rico1304]

Yeah, Buddhism in practice as a demographic has problems associated with poverty and lack of education but I've found it more helpful and rational on a day to day basis than the other religions.

No doubt you'll be tearful as they are dragged off to the gulag.

[PestiRed]

Yeah there are issue with Buddhists in certain places. Quiet how to can beat people up,murder etc and be a Buddhist is beyond me. Though akot of Samurai were buddhist.

The reason i think Buddhism doesn't get the same shit as the other major religion is due to its willingness to change if proof is found.

Also when this guy is the generally look upon head of you religion you'll do okhttps://youtu.be/P9RZ3n7sR9w

That guy is the spoilt brat former figurehead of one of the shittiest regimes of the past 200 years. He's a cunt

[Red Phoenix]

That guy is the spoilt brat former figurehead of one of the shittiest regimes of the past 200 years. He's a cunt

 

Whether he's a cunt or not (I haven't looked into his past enough to know), he probably represents less than 10% of Buddhists, so there's no need to have your view of Buddhism based on him either way. He's the head of one of the 5 main schools of Tibetan, and Tibetan is the smallest of the the three main branches of Buddhism, behind Theravada and Mahayana.

[PestiRed]

Whether he's a cunt or not (I haven't looked into his past enough to know), he probably represents less than 10% of Buddhists, so there's no need to have your view of Buddhism based on him either way. He's the head of one of the 5 main schools of Tibetan, and Tibetan is the smallest of the the three main branches of Buddhism, behind Theravada and Mahayana.

I don't know enough about Buddhism as a whole to comment on that, but I do know that Tibet was a god awful place under the regime he represents.

[PestiRed]

Going back to Catholicism. My wife claims to be a catholic, although growing up under communism she had no religious education and has never felt the urge to read the bible. Her main attachment to the religion is anti-Soviet in that she is proud that her parents had a secret, catholic wedding ceremony in the countryside in defiance of the existing communist government. She actually believes in reincarnation, ghosts and that some of her friends can speak to the dead (this is actually not unusual amongst Hungarian women). When I point out that most of her beliefs are against catholic doctrine, she tells me that the Pope and the church are men and therefore a bit clueless about most things.

 

Anyway, she wants our daughter to be christened into the Catholic Church which I have agreed to on the proviso that we don't attend church (except for the ceremony) and she will never, ever be left alone in the company of a member of the church as they have proved that they can't be trusted with children and don't appear to have the will to change. The wife agrees. So basically she wants a day for the kid but doesn't believe in the religion and would never trust them. I hope the whole thing doesn't cost me too much money

[Lee909]

I don't know enough about Buddhism as a whole to comment on that, but I do know that Tibet was a god awful place under the regime he represents.

It was medieval in structure yes.

But id say it ruled itself amd was less brutal than it is now. With the Chinese pretty much ethnically cleansing the place by moving Chinese into Tibet.

 

The man has changed the structure of the government in exile too. Stepped down from power and has a ruling council instead. If he would habe made the changes he has if still in power who knows. But outside of China i don'tthink mamy agree with you

 

Im not fully up with the whole history on Tibet but from the amount of refuges that make a break for the Indian border its fair to say its no better now.

[Red Phoenix]

I don't know enough about Buddhism as a whole to comment on that, but I do know that Tibet was a god awful place under the regime he represents.

 

I'd guess that the situation wasn't good with an authoritarian Chinese gov trying to take over the country, but yeah I can't see leading a government and also a school of Buddhism working out too well for several reasons. A big part of Buddhism is about letting go of attachments and not getting as caught up in the world, and obviously a government is often doing the exact opposite.

[PestiRed]

I don't necessarily think it's a valid argument to say that current life under the Chinese is shit so therefore serfdom under the Dalai would have been better. Especially when a great deal of people seem to believe that the Dalai Lama is some kind of god or exceptional being. All evidence points to serfdom and slavery existing up to his departure from the country with some horrific examples of torture being practised under the regime (eyeballs plucked out, limbs cut off etc) plus reports of such deprivation that peasants were selling their children into slavery in the hope it would keep them alive.

 

Yes, China is brutal but there is zero evidence that it would have been better under this guy.

[Numero Veinticinco]

Tibet is China, and always has been. Just throwing that one in.

[PestiRed]

Tibet is China, and always has been. Just throwing that one in.

Nah, it's mostly made of rock

[Numero Veinticinco]

Nah, it's mostly made of rock

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