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Donald Trump

Faustus

By Faustus,
in GF - General Forum

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Bjornebye Grand Master

Bjornebye

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Duff Man said:

Dubya was surrounded by some of the most deplorable people in American politics; especially the neocons dictating his foreign policy. I mean obviously Trump's a shitshow, but if this ends up being his only term, has it really been more damaging than Dubya's two? Honestly not sure it has.

Mate he has done irreparable damage he to the population. Has the states ever been more divided ? At least Bush had a few invasions the majority could gung ho and get behind. Trumps taken a knife right through American society 

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‘Mild Symptoms’ same as Alex.   I hope the deplorable fuck has the worst, drawn out case possible, that riddles him.    I also want the name of every person to have died of the ‘China

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Duff Man Grand Master

Duff Man

Posted
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33 minutes ago, Aw Geez said:

220,000 americans might argue it has, if they were still alive.

Bit silly, but over a million Iraqis might argue it hasn't, if they were still alive. And whilst not an exact analogue with Covid, did Dubya manage Katrina any better? Pretty sure people weren't exactly queuing up to praise his response, there.

 

I guess the point is that whilst there's obviously been risible cronyism with Trump, has the net result been that much different to other Repulbican presidencies? And that's before you get into the fact that some of his other appointments, such as Bolton and Kudlow, are basically reprising the roles they had (or similar) under Bush Snr and Reagan.

 

I think behind all the insane press conferences and rallies, much of it has been business as usual, a few notable exceptions aside.

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Duff Man Grand Master

Duff Man

Posted
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6 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Mate he has done irreparable damage he to the population. Has the states ever been more divided ? At least Bush had a few invasions the majority could gung ho and get behind. Trumps taken a knife right through American society 

I'd argue those divisions have always been there, and that while Trump has undoubtedly stoked the flames, he really isn't the reason they're actually there. Not sure if you're serious about the invasions.

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Bjornebye Grand Master

Bjornebye

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9 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

I'd argue those divisions have always been there, and that while Trump has undoubtedly stoked the flames, he really isn't the reason they're actually there. Not sure if you're serious about the invasions.

Of course they have but it takes a trigger and he hasn’t just triggered it but he has openly stoked the flames of it. 

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Duff Man Grand Master

Duff Man

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1 minute ago, Bjornebye said:

Of course they have but it takes a trigger and he hasn’t just triggered it but he has openly stoked the flames of it. 

Sure, but Bush and Reagan didn't do anything to heal those divides, either, and both leaned into themes of social conservatism/blaming marginalised groups just as Trump does; the only difference being they were a little more subtle about it.

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Bjornebye Grand Master

Bjornebye

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26 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

Sure, but Bush and Reagan didn't do anything to heal those divides, either, and both leaned into themes of social conservatism/blaming marginalised groups just as Trump does; the only difference being they were a little more subtle about it.

Trump has been an absolute disaster. 

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Section_31 Grand Master

Section_31

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I think Trump is peerless in the social havoc he's wrought on the United States. The concept of fake news or of journalists being the 'enemy of the people' didn't really exist in America at its current scale until he started spouting it. Nor did the idea that you couldn't believe what your own eyes and ears were telling you, Orwell style. 

 

If Trump had invaded Iraq and it went badly, he'd simply telly you that he hadn't invaded Iraq and that he in fact, didn't even know where Iraq was. If you challenged that his supporters would accuse you of being part of a Dem conspiracy to frame the President in a bad light. 

 

The racial divides have definitely always been there, but nobody has stoked them or emboldened the right to the extent he has. Bush had people like Condoleezza Rice and Colin Powell in his cabinet, who, regardless of their policies, were pretty fierce intellects. Trump has been known to refer to people as 'where's my African American?'.

 

 

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Duff Man Grand Master

Duff Man

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1 hour ago, Section_31 said:

I think Trump is peerless in the social havoc he's wrought on the United States. The concept of fake news or of journalists being the 'enemy of the people' didn't really exist in America at its current scale until he started spouting it. Nor did the idea that you couldn't believe what your own eyes and ears were telling you, Orwell style. 

 

If Trump had invaded Iraq and it went badly, he'd simply telly you that he hadn't invaded Iraq and that he in fact, didn't even know where Iraq was. If you challenged that his supporters would accuse you of being part of a Dem conspiracy to frame the President in a bad light. 

 

The racial divides have definitely always been there, but nobody has stoked them or emboldened the right to the extent he has. Bush had people like Condoleezza Rice and Colin Powell in his cabinet, who, regardless of their policies, were pretty fierce intellects. Trump has been known to refer to people as 'where's my African American?'.

 

 

But that's the whole point. Whatever the comparative intellects of the people around these presidents, the resultant policy - the stuff that actually matters - isn't really all that different, and in some of the cases where it is, such as foreign policy, you can quite easily make the case that it's actually been better under Trump. Kushner clowning around in the middle east with Tonty, making peace deals that nobody will sign, is far more preferable than 20 year wars that result in widescale death, destruction, and destabilisation. And as for old Colin, he could have had an intellect of 160 or more, for all it mattered; the fucker still went to the UN and tried to bullshit them into signing off on a war he knew was predicated on a massive honking lie.

 

I'll grant you Trump is a step-change in terms of rhetoric, and whipping up his base, but Reagan was just as gratuitous in private: he referred to African diplomats as monkeys on a phone call to Nixon, for instance. The fact that he was a little better at hiding his racism doesn't mean he wasn't just as racist.

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TheHowieLama Grand Master

TheHowieLama

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Back to Bush yes, only to point out some influential cabinet members had both expertise and were black - certainly not 40 years ago.

 

The reality is this is the first "social media" administration and that is why it has been able to both cause the chaos and polarize the electorate to the magnitude we see today.

 

 

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