André Villas Boas (Manager)

[Brownie]

I was one of Lucas' biggest critics back in the day (when he WAS playing shit) but by the time he got injured last year, he'd developed into a fantastic player. I just hope he can return to that kind of form because he is a major asset when playing well (he can also be a liability when playing poorly as well but hopefully he's over that).

[The Guest]

What???

 

Are people still coming out with this rubbish?

 

Mate, try watching the game. This myth that he gets the ball and looks to pass backwards or just sits in front of the back 4 is just daft and lazy. I say lazy because it’s only ever said now by Liverpool fans who eat up comments from TV commentators who don’t actually watch our full games.

 

Lucas started out life as an attacking midfielder. He then became an utterly lost defensive midfielder. But as he has found his feet in his newer position, he has started melding with the attacking side and now gets forward a lot more. He’s not running into the box, but he supplementing the attacking play considerably. I doubt there is a better defensive midfielder in the league who also contributes to the start of attacking play.

 

Anyone, and there’s a few fucking dopes on here, but anyone still talking down Lucas’s ability and benefit to the team deserves to be laughed at. Not abused, but just laughed at.

 

I watch the game mate, every one. I don't think it is daft or lazy. That's exactly what he does. He came to the club and plenty of know it alls who had watched a load of YouTube clips were telling everyone and anyone he was the next Gerrard. He played and was fucking awful. These people continued to back him and he continued to be awful. Then Alonso left he got his big chance. Guess what happened, he was fucking awful and it impacted the team massively.

 

But there was this strange thing going on where all these gobshites who had backed him from day one started just saying he was amazing. Game in game out he was man of the match for doing precisely fuck all. It was the strangest thing I have witnessed with regards to fan opinion on a player. All these divvies just started kidding themselves that he was playing well when he wasnt.

 

Then this season started. As this season went on he got gradually better still putting the odd non-entity of a performance in here or there but he had turned himself into a competent defensive midfielder. Instead of giving stupid fouls away and dawdling on the ball he did that less so than before. The mongs went apeshit and suddenly he's our best player.

 

The last few games he played before he got injured he played really well and was having a real impact on the game. He was however still only a defensive midfielder. It's the easiest position on the pitch to play requiring the least thought and ability. Since his injury his reputation is now that of Johan Cruyff. He hasn't been playing some new position where he gets forward more He was playing in the same one it's why he hardly scores and hardly gets any assists.

 

I'd like to see Leiva judged at the same level Gerrard is because he doesn't come close. If any of our young midfielders had been given the pitch time leiva has been given over the years and been told to do what he does I have no doubt they could have easily turned into a player of his quality if not better.

[ratcatcher]

We've not been able to build a new side, from fresh, for a long time.

 

Each time we've tried, there has been a proviso, and that is that that team features Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher. Politics aside, there are playing issues that have related to them both for a while now.

Gerrard seems incapable of playing in the middle, complained about being out on the right as well, and seemingly only likes and plays well when behind a striker. Well of course that then limits us in terms of what formation we can play.

He seemingly insists on taking all set pieces, despite his height, but that's another matter.

 

And then there's Carragher and his lack of pace and his tendency to sit deep and defend, and his stratospheric distribution. At times his passing can be excellent, but mostly it;s not. I dont often hear him praised for his distribution, but I thought I'd be fair and note it, he can pick a long range pass at times.

 

But the problem has remained, build a team around these two players, whose influence on a football game has waned severely in the last 3 years.

 

Just for once, I'd like to see a manager given a chance to build something in his own image, and not be tied to those two.

 

 

In terms of treating them ruthlessly, well it's not a policy statement, it's totally dependant on how those players see themselves. If they accept a lessening role and will play where asked, then they can be treated gracefully and respectfully and carry on at this club and be adored.

If they dont change and expect the club and the team to revolve around them, then we have to nip that in the bud, and yes that could be ruthless.

 

Yeah, I cant wait for the day we fuck another couple of our legends off. Then we'll see exactly how we perform.

 

No doubt snivelling little cretins like you will be back on here blaming someone else when were 15th, 16th or 17th. Go suck a cock.

[ratcatcher]

I watch the game mate, every one. I don't think it is daft or lazy. That's exactly what he does. He came to the club and plenty of know it alls who had watched a load of YouTube clips were telling everyone and anyone he was the next Gerrard. He played and was fucking awful. These people continued to back him and he continued to be awful. Then Alonso left he got his big chance. Guess what happened, he was fucking awful and it impacted the team massively.

 

But there was this strange thing going on where all these gobshites who had backed him from day one started just saying he was amazing. Game in game out he was man of the match for doing precisely fuck all. It was the strangest thing I have witnessed with regards to fan opinion on a player. All these divvies just started kidding themselves that he was playing well when he wasnt.

 

Then this season started. As this season went on he got gradually better still putting the odd non-entity of a performance in here or there but he had turned himself into a competent defensive midfielder. Instead of giving stupid fouls away and dawdling on the ball he did that less so than before. The mongs went apeshit and suddenly he's our best player.

 

The last few games he played before he got injured he played really well and was having a real impact on the game. He was however still only a defensive midfielder. It's the easiest position on the pitch to play requiring the least thought and ability. Since his injury his reputation is now that of Johan Cruyff. He hasn't been playing some new position where he gets forward more He was playing in the same one it's why he hardly scores and hardly gets any assists.

 

I'd like to see Leiva judged at the same level Gerrard is because he doesn't come close. If any of our young midfielders had been given the pitch time leiva has been given over the years and been told to do what he does I have no doubt they could have easily turned into a player of his quality if not better.

 

I think this quite probably the biggest and I mean BIGGEST load of bollocks Ive ever read on a forum.

[silverlining]

 

Lucas started out life as an attacking midfielder. He then became an utterly lost defensive midfielder. But as he has found his feet in his newer position, he has started melding with the attacking side and now gets forward a lot more. He’s not running into the box, but he supplementing the attacking play considerably. I doubt there is a better defensive midfielder in the league who also contributes to the start of attacking play.

 

This is evidenced by the amount of goals and assists he has.

 

As for better defensive midfielders "who also contribute to the attacking play", Alex Song is a good example - he is fucking miles better than Lucas.

 

But he's not alone in being miles better than Lucas.

 

The following are too: Tiote, Yaya Toure, De Jong, Parker, Sandro. I could go on.

[RobbieOR]

Parker and Sandro.

 

hahaha.

[dirk grout]

This is evidenced by the amount of goals and assists he has.

 

As for better defensive midfielders "who also contribute to the attacking play", Alex Song is a good example - he is fucking miles better than Lucas.

 

But he's not alone in being miles better than Lucas.

 

The following are too: Tiote, Yaya Toure, De Jong, Parker, Sandro. I could go on.

 

Bollocks.

[dirk grout]

Parker and Sandro.

 

hahaha.

 

I prefer to refer to him as '31 year old, 10 cap Scott Parker'. Although to be fair it might be 11 now.

[The Guest]

I think this quite probably the biggest and I mean BIGGEST load of bollocks Ive ever read on a forum.

 

That's probably because you are one of the mongs mate. When he's fit try watching the game without your rose tinted spectacles on. He really isn't that good and doesn't really do that much.

[RobbieOR]

I prefer to refer to him as '31 year old, 10 cap Scott Parker'. Although to be fair it might be 11 now.

 

To be fair, he'd have more if international competition didnt stop during world war two.

[Liquid football]

Yeah, he doesn't do anything Lucas. I agree with this. Just why we nosedived in the 2nd half of the season is also a mystery to me.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I wouldn't read too much into that Lukaku spiel. Sounds like bruised ego + not understanding the point of coaching to me.

 

I do have the same concerns though. There is no question that on an intellectual level AvB has the game nailed. You only have to read his scouting reports etc to know that, but that's only half the battle.

 

Remember benitez shipping out Murphy to break-up the scouse clique, or getting Ayala to fight some slacker, or mourinho humiliating Carvalho to send a message to the over-sized egos @ chelsea, or bugerstain? (© The Rev 2012) shipping out Ronaldinho and Deco to make it easier for the players to fall-in behind Guardiola. I don't think AvB has that nouse and no-one at the club currently does either. I think it's what did for him at chelsea. It won't be as big an issue here as we don't have the same dynamics as chelsea do, but what chance of him being able to inspire the group? Pretty limited I'd say.

 

There was some talk that his real issue was that he wasn't able to communicate his ideas well enough. That what worked well with players who'd been coached the continental way all their lives didn't work as well at chelsea and that players were confused. If that is the case, I can't see that it would be much different here.

 

I think that's a very good post. The more I think about AvB, the more I believe we should take our chance to get him whilst we still can. However, he's going to need a strong DoF to make the calls you mentioned.

[Kevin D]

Its seems a little unnecessary to pretend Lucas isn't brilliant in order to defend Gerrard, or vice versa. They're both excellent players. Any manager we get is clearly going to want both players to have key roles in the team.

We've missed both of them massively this season. Without Lucas we rarely keep a clean sheet, whilst we were regularly up until November. Without Gerrard we seem completely reliant on Suarez to create something out of nothing.

 

Despite an obvious lack of quality wide players, and a clinical striker, just having these two back for the majority of next season will ensure we finish with far more than 52 points.

 

I'm not going to get drawn into the Lucas debate, but I do think it's worth mentioning that we had the 3rd best defensive record in the league. That was with our normally outstanding 'keeper - worth about 12 points in previous seasons - having a relatively poor year.

[The Guest]

My usual response would just be to tell you to f off, but I'm being refrained... you say that DM is the easiest position on the pitch? you may be right in some respects but go name me how many can play like lucas there? why couldn't wee Jay just step up his game and make it look so easy? tell me why the likes of Busquets are crucial to spain? or why suddenly when Mascherano was taken off in the champos league final suddenley kaka appeared on the pitch.. tsk tsk those pesky rubbish DM's... sometimes the simple things are far more effective. I suggest you go have a read on Falcao lad.

 

Read my post again it pretty answers your questions.

 

But again for you anyway. 90% of our squad could. Never mind various players throughout the league and Europe. It doesn't take a lot of skill to do what leiva does.

 

Jay spearing isn't really good enough but if he had had the same amount of game time as leiva he would be as good as him. I haven't said that defensive midfielders haven't got their uses especially against players like kaka. But if I had to choose between busquets or xavi I know who I'd choose. You would probably choose busquets because you're a dickhead.

[Gym Beglin]

Go suck a cock.

 

 

I'd gladly suck your cock and swallow a load.

PM me.

[piscinin]

I think that's a very good post. The more I think about AvB, the more I believe we should take our chance to get him whilst we still can. However, he's going to need a strong DoF to make the calls you mentioned.

 

That's where I worry, you wonder how much horsepower that role will have if it's comolli's job divided up into 2 or 3 pieces according to Ayre.

[ratcatcher]

That's probably because you are one of the mongs mate. When he's fit try watching the game without your rose tinted spectacles on. He really isn't that good and doesn't really do that much.

 

In case you havent noticed, everyone is destroying your argument and ripping you a new one :whistle:

[piscinin]

I'm not going to get drawn into the Lucas debate, but I do think it's worth mentioning that we had the 3rd best defensive record in the league. That was with our normally outstanding 'keeper - worth about 12 points in previous seasons - having a relatively poor year.

 

We conceded 10 more than usual and were on par with everton. On the other hand, hen you consider the Lucapocalypse+Reina+Agger+Carragher, it's pretty amazing really.

[The Guest]

In case you havent noticed, everyone is destroying your argument and ripping you a new one :whistle:

 

I haven't noticed anyone doing anything of the sort. Jairzinho posted before about struggling to keep clean sheets and that we were regularly doing that before November. We kept something like 3 in 10 games before November in the league and only an extra 1 in November. Our goals conceded stayed pretty consistent throughout the season. Leivas loss wasn't even noticed. As I said before its the lack of finishing and final ball that was our problem not breaking up opposition attacks and stopping them from scoring.

[TheHitman]

Jose has signed a new four year deal at Real Madrid, looks like he won't be crawling over broken glass to get here.

[Jairzinho]

I'm not going to get drawn into the Lucas debate, but I do think it's worth mentioning that we had the 3rd best defensive record in the league. That was with our normally outstanding 'keeper - worth about 12 points in previous seasons - having a relatively poor year.

 

Yep, our centreback partnership is arguably the best in the league, and we finished with a very good defensive record. It was better still with Lucas in the team.

 

Whilst he gets very few assists, or goals, I think he does contribute to our play beyond defensive work, in the same way Busquets does. By being calm in possession, assessing options well, being available for passes etc. As opposed to playing a two yard pass and then running away as far as possible, or attempting ridiculous 100 yard passes.

 

He's not world class, and/or the best in the world in his position as some RAWK gimps suggest, but he's a good player, and has been missed.

[AussieRed]

Read my post again it pretty answers your questions.

 

But again for you anyway. 90% of our squad could. Never mind various players throughout the league and Europe. It doesn't take a lot of skill to do what leiva does.

 

Jay spearing isn't really good enough but if he had had the same amount of game time as leiva he would be as good as him. I haven't said that defensive midfielders haven't got their uses especially against players like kaka. But if I had to choose between busquets or xavi I know who I'd choose. You would probably choose busquets because you're a dickhead.

 

This highlights your ignorance. Why would you choose between them? They play two completely different positions. Xavi could not do what Busquets does and vice versa. The same can be said of Gerrard and Lucas. Gerrard is superior both physically and technically. Lucas is better tactically. This is key. To be a DM you have to be cerebral and analytical. To play up front you have to be inventive and instinctive. If you can do both you're Beckenbauer.

[Gym Beglin]

I'm not too sure where this thread is at now.

 

Are we still having a Gerrard debate, or is it Lucas, or is it now DM's in general?

 

I'll tell you what, I love Charlie Adam. And I mean that. If we can provide solidity behind him, and get him playing them passes further up the field, and get him on the set-pieces, then we can see a very good player.

 

He had some stinkers, but he was being judged on how he couldn't break down the opposition. Well, tell you what, stop giving the ball away, get him involved up the pitch, and then judge him. We were a broken team, he got a load of the blame, but everything that has happened since, when you look at the abject failure of a season on the whole, tells you that the problem was much, much bigger than we initially thought.

[Jairzinho]

Adam looked alright when Lucas was doing all the stuff he can't do. Then Lucas got injured and suddenly it became very apparent that we didn't have anyone to do all the boring stuff Lucas was doing.

 

Then we got bummed by Reo Coker.

[AussieRed]

I'm not too sure where this thread is at now.

 

Are we still having a Gerrard debate, or is it Lucas, or is it now DM's in general?

 

I'll tell you what, I love Charlie Adam. And I mean that. If we can provide solidity behind him, and get him playing them passes further up the field, and get him on the set-pieces, then we can see a very good player.

 

He had some stinkers, but he was being judged on how he couldn't break down the opposition. Well, tell you what, stop giving the ball away, get him involved up the pitch, and then judge him. We were a broken team, he got a load of the blame, but everything that has happened since, when you look at the abject failure of a season on the whole, tells you that the problem was much, much bigger than we initially thought.

 

What happened to his set pieces? They were brilliant for Blackpool yet for us, he couldn't get a corner over the first defender. A true mystery.