Juventus begin to hire backroom staff for Liverpool boss Benitez

[jsjazz]

Rafa's looked pretty relaxed the last few weeks. Either he's off and out of this shit, or he knows Cancer and Aids are gone and he may have a transfer kitty.

[stringvest]

Even you do not believe that. But if so, obviously you should be happy with Pulis as our next manager, improvement guaranteed. I'd rather listen to Hamstrung...

 

Sadly I do believe it, because I've watched us and I've seen Stoke. I have seen more inept clueless performances from us this year than from them.

 

However, you can't then suggest that improvement is guaranteed by recruiting Tony Pulis. You're trying to suggest I think Pulis is a better manager than Benitez. I don't think that, but I do think all things considered he's performed better than Benitez this year.

[stringvest]

Presumably you wouldn't want O'Neill signing anyone if he did become our manager then?

 

I don't want O'Neill becoming our manager. I was simply pointing out a widely held opinion amongst most objective followers of football. I agree with it.

[stringvest]

If the decision is based on managers who have outperformed Benitez this season, then we're fucked. Get Chris Houghton in.

 

That shouldn't (and hopefully won't) be the measure.

 

If that was the only measure it would make the queue for the X Factor applicants look like two people at a bus stop.

[Code]

"One of the biggest reasons" becomes "the reason". How to create a strawman argument 101. Stat man, look at the stats objectively, then see what part Benitez has played. Mourinho played a big part, as did Ferguson. But only Benitez and Ferguson won, and LFC was ranked no 1 in Europe due to Benitez.

 

Rafa has fuck all to do with other English clubs success in the CL.

 

As an example Chelsea reached the semi final the year before Rafa came here, they reacehed the semi final the year we won it etc, etc..

 

Money is the main reason for English clubs success in Europe the last few years and the fact the best players came to England because of it, again it has fuck all to do with Rafa.

 

So claiming such a ridiculous thing is pretty desperate yes.

[Code]

Crikey. One of the biggest bugbears with arguing on the Interwebs is the presence of the selectively-illiterate argumentative troll. The retarded idiots are easier to ignore. The selective-illterate-yet-wanna-argue crowd are harder.

 

You're a classic example. You know full well thats not what I said. You know what point I was responding to, and why.

 

The initial point I was responding to (paraphrased in simpler terms, to make it harder for illiterati like you to twist) was this:

 

English clubs have dominated in the CL for the past 6 years, and Benitez simply rode that wave. Pretty much anyone could have managed any of the 4 English clubs, and they would have done well. His record was therefore not a demonstration of his tactical acumen.

 

My response is that he did NOT ride any wave. He was the one who bloody well started that wave. And over the course of the last 6 years, no one has done better. Ferguson has equalled him (1 win, 1 runners up, 1 semi final). Arsenal and Chelsea (despite their many rubles) have not.

 

That doesn't make him THE reason. It simply means that he did not do well "by default" as the original poster was claiming.

 

PS: is you're equating 6 seasons with "last couple of seasons" (ie: 2) a demonstration of your mathematical prowess as well? Goes well with your English comprehension.

 

Again hahaha.

 

Of course Rafa started the wave, I`m sure his influence on Chelsea reaching the semi final the year before he came to England and repeating the same in his first year was massive.

 

Tool.

[Carradona]

Wait, let's get this straight. Somebody is suggesting that Benitez is the reason why the four English clubs have done so well in Europe over the last 6 years and he is the one that started it?

 

Really? Yes, Istanbul is/was an incredible achievement for Benitez and everyone involved, but that's just a ludicrous statement.

[Ginny]

Istanbul was the start of Benitez' downfall.

[Delmar]

Rafa has fuck all to do with other English clubs success in the CL.

 

As an example Chelsea reached the semi final the year before Rafa came here, they reacehed the semi final the year we won it etc, etc..

 

Money is the main reason for English clubs success in Europe the last few years and the fact the best players came to England because of it, again it has fuck all to do with Rafa.

 

So claiming such a ridiculous thing is pretty desperate yes.

 

Money is a big reason. People who use the money are also a big reason. Benitez happens to be the most successful of the PL managers in Europe together with Ferguson. Mourinho, with all the money, was 2nd to Benitez (in Europe) during his time at Chelsea.

 

Of course Benitez cannot directly influence other clubs. But if you see no correlation here, and wish to disregard Benitez's effect in the success of the PL clubs in Europe, I cannot help you.

[Delmar]

Wait, let's get this straight. Somebody is suggesting that Benitez is the reason why the four English clubs have done so well in Europe over the last 6 years and he is the one that started it?

 

Really? Yes, Istanbul is/was an incredible achievement for Benitez and everyone involved, but that's just a ludicrous statement.

 

Read the posts again. Another guy trying the strawman stuff...

[05 Milan]

Wait, let's get this straight. Somebody is suggesting that Benitez is the reason why the four English clubs have done so well in Europe over the last 6 years and he is the one that started it?

 

Really? Yes, Istanbul is/was an incredible achievement for Benitez and everyone involved, but that's just a ludicrous statement.

 

I don't think that's what he said. I think he was saying that the very fact that Rafa started the recent wave of English success in the CL back in 05 is a strong argument against him merely "riding the wave" of English dominance.

 

I think you should read the posts a bit more closely before going off on one. It's embarassing when the posting gets so biased.

[Carradona]

This is what was said:

 

"My response is that he did NOT ride any wave. He was the one who bloody well started that wave."

 

That suggests the poster is saying that Benitez was the start of the wave of English clubs' success in Europe.

[jackofdk]

Don't be so stupid (at least, try). Its completely factual, and on the ball. There's nothing manufactured about the above list. Rafael Benitez is one of the biggest reasons why English clubs have dominated the CL in the last 6 years. And he didn't ride an existing wave, he set the ball rolling.

 

Whats "desperate" about that?

 

Your logic seems to come from the same school (of dummies) who use last years 2nd place finish as another stick to beat him on the head with.

 

2005: Liverpool win

2006:Arsenal in the final

2007: Liverpool in the final

2008: Mancs and Chesea in the final

2009: Mancs in the final

 

Rafa has done well in Europe for Liverpool, but our rivals have done just about as good in the last five years.

 

And ironically for all his tactical acumen our best displays have been when he has adopted an old school british style of playing with high intensity and really going for the opposition (Real Madrid and Juventus at home springs to mind).

 

I'm not trying to take anything away from Rafa's European record, I'm just saying that a decent manager could - and should - probably at least get us to the knock out stage of CL on a regular basis and from there anything can happen.

[05 Milan]

This is what was said:

 

"My response is that he did NOT ride any wave. He was the one who bloody well started that wave."

 

That suggests the poster is saying that Benitez was the start of the wave of English clubs' success in Europe.

 

Well, yeah, he was actually. Not the same as saying he is the reason for the other english sides doing well..?

[jackofdk]

Oh, and so what if he got the wave rolling? Good on him if that's the case. Doesn't change the fact that any top English side could expect to do well in Europe now. Therefore replacing him with a manager without a track record in Europe would be less of a gamble than some make it out to be.

[el matador]

im not o'neills biggest fan.

 

For me its got to be mourinho - even with a restricted budget he would get more out of what we have then benitez did.

 

If we cant get mourinho then i still wouldnt look at o'neill, mark hughes, guus hiddink (we could buy his contract out with turkey i think) or even pellegrini from real madrid will be out of a job come may.

 

Hiddink or mourinho would be good choices but mark hughes has proved that he knows how to manage in the EPL and has a winners mentality.

[Carradona]

Well, yeah, he was actually. Not the same as saying he is the reason for the other english sides doing well..?

 

Well he didn't really start the "wave" anyway. That is what I was referring to as ludicrous.

[StevieH]

Rafa has also been partly responsible for the success of other clubs domestically as well.

[Ted]

Rafa has also been partly responsible for the success of other clubs domestically as well.

 

Is nice!

[05 Milan]

You don't need a degree in science to see that the recent success of English sides in the CL has coincided with the largest revenue stream ever pouring into the top clubs. The relative success of his closest rivals in the CL sure takes some of the shine away from Rafa's overall european record with us. But it doesn't even take a grain of achievement away from Istanbul and the road there, which was simply incredible. One of the biggest overachievements of all time.

[Guest PurpleNose]

 

Rafa has done well in Europe for Liverpool, but our rivals have done just about as good in the last five years.

 

 

Rafa won more European Cups in 2005 than every single club in London has, ever. So I don't think you can say our rivals "have done just about as good".

 

He made us a force to be feared. I certainly felt confident we were going to get through in every single tie.

 

Despite being pretty poor in the league we were so good in European competition that we were ranked as the number 1 team in Europe.

 

Why pretend we weren't the best? When we clearly were.

[Brownie]

Istanbul was incredible. Thinking back to that season and the run of games we went through just brings back so many happy memories.

 

I can remember where I was for the Juve game, I can remember where I was for the Chelsea game and obviously the final. I'll never forget any of it. I just felt immense pride, passion and belonging whilst we were progressing through the competition.

 

I really miss that feeling we all shared, where everyone was pulling in the same direction and desperate for us to win football matches. That's what it's all about for me. There was no, 'we can't possibly win the CL, because we don't have as much money as the teams we're playing...', etc, it was just pure football.

 

Fast forward a few years and we're all sniping at each other, a lot of us have lost that attitude that we are good enough to win games and trophies and there's more cracks in the fan base than there is in a porno.

 

One of the main reasons I want a new man in charge (amongst others), is so that we can all get back to pulling in the same direction, have that feeling of confidence, solidarity and just get back to caring about the football, none of the political shite that is rife these days.

[Faustus]

Istanbul was incredible. Thinking back to that season and the run of games we went through just brings back so many happy memories.

 

I can remember where I was for the Juve game, I can remember where I was for the Chelsea game and obviously the final. I'll never forget any of it. I just felt immense pride, passion and belonging whilst we were progressing through the competition.

 

I really miss that feeling we all shared, where everyone was pulling in the same direction and desperate for us to win football matches. That's what it's all about for me. There was no, 'we can't possibly win the CL, because we don't have as much money as the teams we're playing...', etc, it was just pure football.

 

Fast forward a few years and we're all sniping at each other, a lot of us have lost that attitude that we are good enough to win games and trophies and there's more cracks in the fan base than there is in a porno.

 

One of the main reasons I want a new man in charge (amongst others), is so that we can all get back to pulling in the same direction, have that feeling of confidence, solidarity and just get back to caring about the football, none of the political shite that is rife these days.

 

Brownie, unfortunately I can't rep you, but that's a great post, mate.

[StevieH]

Istanbul was incredible. Thinking back to that season and the run of games we went through just brings back so many happy memories.

 

I can remember where I was for the Juve game, I can remember where I was for the Chelsea game and obviously the final. I'll never forget any of it. I just felt immense pride, passion and belonging whilst we were progressing through the competition.

 

I really miss that feeling we all shared, where everyone was pulling in the same direction and desperate for us to win football matches. That's what it's all about for me. There was no, 'we can't possibly win the CL, because we don't have as much money as the teams we're playing...', etc, it was just pure football.

 

Fast forward a few years and we're all sniping at each other, a lot of us have lost that attitude that we are good enough to win games and trophies and there's more cracks in the fan base than there is in a porno.

 

One of the main reasons I want a new man in charge (amongst others), is so that we can all get back to pulling in the same direction, have that feeling of confidence, solidarity and just get back to caring about the football, none of the political shite that is rife these days.

 

Hear hear. I completely agree with all of that.

 

The club is rotten to the core and there needs to be a complete cull from top to bottom to enable us to move forward again, and preferably sooner rather than later.

[Code]

Rafa has also been partly responsible for the success of other clubs domestically as well.

 

I have a huge hangover but that just made my day a little bit better.