Come home Kenny (Carradona I am sorry)

[Paco]

They might not be yours or mine type of player but there 2 less players to pick from

I don't rate Pennant but if he played yesterday,Kuyt could have played up front instead of Voronin and that would have strengthend the team.

 

All buts and maybes but in terms of numbers the squad is lighter,that's not in question.

And yes the Manager WAS to blame for yesterday,but there is little doubt that his hands where tied in the last transfer window.

 

Kuyt was no better than voronin yesterday and has been shite for several weeks. Even if he had've played up front he would have made no difference. His inability to play a simple pass would have meant that nando would have had even less service

[cmuller]

I think I'm right in saying that the majority of this forum wanted us to sell 4-6 players and buy 1 maybe 2 top quality players instead on the basis that squad depth wasn't as important as a strong first 11 supplemented by kids.

 

I don't think the ratio was 6 out, 2 in. But the candidates for 'out' are all still here in the main!

 

And for me, it was supplementing the big signings with an Owen (although for non footy reasons I'm glad we didn't get him) and 1 or 2 others of that ilk.

 

I'd just love to know the truth behind our transfers of the last couple of years.

[Durango]

I'd quite like to see the first choice 11 actually.

 

Sometime before Christmas will do.

 

No hurry.

Something like this

Reina

Johnson Carragher Agger/Syrtel Aurelio

Kuyt Mascherano Aquilani Reira/Benayoun

Gerrard

Torres

Bench

Cavalieri,Skrtel/Agger,Insua,Dossena,Lucas,Riera/Benayoun, and Babel

 

Not so bad is it?

 

 

Plus youngesters Kelly,Ayala,Spearing and N'gog

[dave u]

Please enlighten us.

Explain the systematic weakening of the squad in previous windows

 

It's not rocket science. We've sold players, and replaced them with ones who in my opinion aren't as good. Some examples.

 

Finnan - Degen

Riise - Dossena

Crouch - Keane/N'Gog

Hyypia - Krygiakos

Alonso - Aquilani (time will tell on this, but fact is we signed an injured player who missed three months of the season whilst picking up a huge wedge)

 

I can't remember who Babel replaced, but whoever it was has to be better than him (actually it may have been Gonzalez, in which I take that back. We let Bellamy go that summer though). Voronin is not an improvement on any striker we've had in the last ten years! I'd also say Riera isn't an improvement on Kewell, and that's pretty fucking damning given what a low opinion I have of Kewell.

 

You can argue about whether Rafa had any choice about some players leaving, that's a separate argument entirely. I agree it isn't a black and white issue.

 

My point was that our squad has been weakened steadily in each of the last several transfer windows. You wanted examples, I've given you them.

 

I assume you disagree that the players brought in are not better than the ones they've replaced?

[goatboy59]

Leto's last act was make an utter fool of himself against Marseille in October 2007!

 

Pennant is a complete and utter gobshite who has been roundly ridiculed by every Liverpool fan for at least a year.

 

Contribution by either last season; zero.

 

You only list them because "6 out 3 in" sounds far more treacherous than 4-3.

 

No matter what is said about the yanks, no other Liverpool regime would be forgiven for keeping two massive wasters on the payroll for two straight seasons.

[Durango]

It's not rocket science. We've sold players, and replaced them with ones who in my opinion aren't as good. Some examples.

 

Finnan - Degen

Riise - Dossena

Crouch - Keane/N'Gog

Hyypia - Krygiakos

Alonso - Aquilani (time will tell on this, but fact is we signed an injured player who missed three months of the season whilst picking up a huge wedge)

 

I can't remember who Babel replaced, but whoever it was has to be better than him (actually it may have been Gonzalez, in which I take that back. We let Bellamy go that summer though). Voronin is not an improvement on any striker we've had in the last ten years! I'd also say Riera isn't an improvement on Kewell, and that's pretty fucking damning given what a low opinion I have of Kewell.

 

You can argue about whether Rafa had any choice about some players leaving, that's a separate argument entirely. I agree it isn't a black and white issue.

 

My point was that our squad has been weakened steadily in each of the last several transfer windows. You wanted examples, I've given you them.

 

I assume you disagree that the players brought in are not better than the ones they've replaced?

Degan?.. in hindsight not the best of signings,but Finnian was seldom on the bench was he,he was more a regular which Degan never was,I would say Kelly was ahead of him in the pecking order, the fact that he played against Lyon confirms this and probably would have played there yesterday if he wasn't injured,good player that Finnian was, you know as well as I do that he was going backwards.

Dossena=Riise can't split them

Crouch=Keane/N'gog well if we paid £10m plus for N'gog you'd have a argument.

Hyypia=Krygiakos.Sami declined a new contract,go and find me a Manager in the world that would have replaced Sami with £1.5m in his pocket.

Alonso=Aquilani.Alonso wanted to go,I know you think you have mystic powers, but even you will have to wait this one out

[zigackly]

I would say Kelly was ahead of him in the pecking order, the fact that he played against Lyon confirms this

 

I've seen this opinion a few times recently, and it confirms nothing of the sort. We have a limited number of foreigners who can play in the Champions League and Degen is the riskiest of these to include in the squad due to his injury history, and therefore was the logical option to leave out. To confirm that Kelly is ahead of him in the pecking order we would have to see Kelly selected for league games when both were fit and available.

[Durango]

Leto's last act was make an utter fool of himself against Marseille in October 2007!

 

Pennant is a complete and utter gobshite who has been roundly ridiculed by every Liverpool fan for at least a year.

 

Contribution by either last season; zero.

 

You only list them because "6 out 3 in" sounds far more treacherous than 4-3.

 

No matter what is said about the yanks, no other Liverpool regime would be forgiven for keeping two massive wasters on the payroll for two straight seasons.

Listen to what I said, 6 out 3 in ( I never said they where world beaters)

No matter what YOU or I think of their ability, it's 3 less arses in the squad.

 

By the way are you the same poster who uses that username on the Raotl?

Edited November 1, 2009 by Durango

[PaulMcC]

Leto played poorly against Marseille but so did everyone else.

 

Spearing seems to be allowed time but Leto was written off after 1 game.

[Brownie]

I've seen this opinion a few times recently, and it confirms nothing of the sort. We have a limited number of foreigners who can play in the Champions League and Degen is the riskiest of these to include in the squad due to his injury history, and therefore was the logical option to leave out. To confirm that Kelly is ahead of him in the pecking order we would have to see Kelly selected for league games when both were fit and available.

 

It's very interesting when you actually look at the match squads, in the league. Kelly was consistently on the bench for the first 4 league games and then lost his place to Degen for the 5th game. Low and behold, this was the game where Rafa had clearly decided that Johnson would get a rest and Degen came on.

 

Kelly only played in the CL because Degen isn't in that particular squad.

 

The evidence clearly suggests that Degen is ahead of Kelly in the pecking order.

[Vulmea]

Think Arbeloa was Finns replacement after a season of proving himself -degen was brought in to add to the 'possibilities' and probably provide an attacking option

 

Dossena should have been an improvement - the italian first choice left back or jAR - tough choice

 

We couldn't afford Crouch on the bench - Ngog - who is one for the future - I dont think its as simple as like for like - Babel was probbaly supposed to bed in - get used to the game from the left and then the following season be used more and more through the centre

 

hyypia and alonso tough acts to follow and yet to be seen - I thought Skrtel was Hyypia's replacement - and kyrgiakos is just a stop gap until kelly and ayala add some strength to their game

[Allan]

It's very interesting when you actually look at the match squads, in the league. Kelly was consistently on the bench for the first 4 league games and then lost his place to Degen for the 5th game. Low and behold, this was the game where Rafa had clearly decided that Johnson would get a rest and Degen came on.

 

Kelly only played in the CL because Degen isn't in that particular squad.

 

The evidence clearly suggests that Degen is ahead of Kelly in the pecking order.

 

Kelly was unavailable from the 11th of September due to his call up into the England Under 20's squad that participated in the Under 20's World Cup, and did not return until the 2nd of October, coincidentally around the time that Degen reached the match squad ahead of Kelly, so I don't see any evidence of one player being ahead of another as a result.

[Brownie]

Kelly was unavailable from the 11th of September due to his call up into the England Under 20's squad that participated in the Under 20's World Cup, and did not return until the 2nd of October, coincidentally around the time that Degen reached the match squad ahead of Kelly, so I don't see any evidence of one player being ahead of another as a result.

 

Fair enough, I didn't know that.

 

Clearly i'm wrong then.

 

Personally, I still think Rafa sees Degen as second choice right back but time will tell on that score.

 

Thanks for letting me know about that.

[Allan]

Fair enough, I didn't know that.

 

Clearly i'm wrong then.

 

Personally, I still think Rafa sees Degen as second choice right back but time will tell on that score.

 

Thanks for letting me know about that.

 

No problem.

 

The interesting thing is that Kelly was selected ahead of Degen for the Sunderland game after his return from international duty, whether this was a result of an injury sustained by Degen, or if in fact Kelly is ahead in the pecking order, I don't know.

[Durango]

Kuyt was no better than voronin yesterday and has been shite for several weeks. Even if he had've played up front he would have made no difference. His inability to play a simple pass would have meant that nando would have had even less service

 

 

All buts/maybes but on paper would Pennant playing instead of Voronin yesterday weakened or strengthend us?

 

By the way I agree with you regarding Kuyt's current lack of form

[cmuller]

All buts/maybes but on paper would Pennant playing instead of Voronin yesterday weakened or strengthend us?

 

By the way I agree with you regarding Kuyt's current lack of form

 

fave chinese take away dish?

[Durango]

L

 

You only list them because "6 out 3 in" sounds far more treacherous than 4-3.

 

No matter what is said about the yanks, no other Liverpool regime would be forgiven for keeping two massive wasters on the payroll for two straight seasons.

Piechnik,Kozma do you want me to go on?

[Chinandeler Bong]

Our squad 5 years ago was shite as was the first 11 ,

we have a better first 11 now but an even worse squad and look where we are !

 

Its perhaps time for a change

[goatboy59]

Piechnik,Kozma do you want me to go on?

Jesus, don't. I've just eaten.

 

In fairness to the players you keep mentioning they have at least expressed a wish to play football and leave, rather than stay in a comfort zone and pick up an easy wage. Would that other shitehawks had copied them.

 

And I've just remembered Pennant scored at Fulham in 2008. Bugger.

[dave u]

Degan?.. in hindsight not the best of signings,but Finnian was seldom on the bench was he,he was more a regular which Degan never was,I would say Kelly was ahead of him in the pecking order, the fact that he played against Lyon confirms this and probably would have played there yesterday if he wasn't injured,good player that Finnian was, you know as well as I do that he was going backwards.

Dossena=Riise can't split them

Crouch=Keane/N'gog well if we paid £10m plus for N'gog you'd have a argument.

Hyypia=Krygiakos.Sami declined a new contract,go and find me a Manager in the world that would have replaced Sami with £1.5m in his pocket.

Alonso=Aquilani.Alonso wanted to go,I know you think you have mystic powers, but even you will have to wait this one out

 

You've missed the point. Again.

 

Finnan left, he was replaced in the squad by Degen. Finnan offered more than Degen and is a much, much better player, therefore it weakened the squad.

 

And you can't split Riise and Dossena????? Are you fucking kidding me?

 

No we didn't pay £10m for N'Gog, but that's got nothing to do with it. We paid £20m for Keane, and that's got nothing to do with it either. The point is, Crouch left and they were the replacements, and one of them isn't here anymore. This weakened the squad.

 

As for the Sami and Xabi ones, you are muddying the waters. Yes, we will have to wait and see on Aquilani, which is what I said. And there's nothing mystic about pointing out that we signed a player who was injured, and we've been paying him a big salary when he couldn't even play.

 

You asked me to show how the squad had been weakened and I did do. I'm not going into every deal and saying whether it was Rafa's fault, or if it was the player's fault, if it was Parry's fault or if we should blame it on the boogie. I said the squad has been weakened over several windows, you disputed it and asked me to explain. I have.

[shouter]

spot on again

[shouter]

You've missed the point. Again.

 

Finnan left, he was replaced in the squad by Degen. Finnan offered more than Degen and is a much, much better player, therefore it weakened the squad.

 

And you can't split Riise and Dossena????? Are you fucking kidding me?

 

No we didn't pay £10m for N'Gog, but that's got nothing to do with it. We paid £20m for Keane, and that's got nothing to do with it either. The point is, Crouch left and they were the replacements, and one of them isn't here anymore. This weakened the squad.

 

As for the Sami and Xabi ones, you are muddying the waters. Yes, we will have to wait and see on Aquilani, which is what I said. And there's nothing mystic about pointing out that we signed a player who was injured, and we've been paying him a big salary when he couldn't even play.

 

You asked me to show how the squad had been weakened and I did do. I'm not going into every deal and saying whether it was Rafa's fault, or if it was the player's fault, if it was Parry's fault or if we should blame it on the boogie. I said the squad has been weakened over several windows, you disputed it and asked me to explain. I have.

 

spot on again

[Guest the boy]

Finnan left, he was replaced in the squad by Degen. Finnan offered more than Degen and is a much, much better player, therefore it weakened the squad

 

I'm sorry; what year are we living in? You can use Degen and Finnan as like for like bosmans, but neither would get anywhere near our first choice, or even second. Finnan was finished by the time he left here; absolutely nothing that he's done since has suggested otherwise.

 

 

And you can't split Riise and Dossena????? Are you fucking kidding me?

 

Riise's had a mare at Roma; Dossena's had a mare at Liverpool. One scored a couple of big goals against the Mancs and Barca, the other in his first season against the Mancs and Madrid. Dossena's been no worse for us than Riise was in his final season. Both are a shambles.

 

 

[No we didn't pay £10m for N'Gog, but that's got nothing to do with it. We paid £20m for Keane, and that's got nothing to do with it either.

 

Of course it does. We sell Crouch at a profit from which we bought him (a buy Benitez was openly ridiculed for making of course. But you need only look at the recently revived Benayoun thread to see this is a recurring theme) and slightly upgrade him to Keane. Keane doesn't work out, we admittedly sell him at a loss, leaving us with what should have been 10-15 million. What do we do with that money? Nothing.

 

So of course it's got something to do with it. If you sell £15,000,000 or £20,000,000 strikers, depending upon which club's valuation you deem appropriate, and simply do not replace them, then naturally the squad will be weakened. And even then, you're conveniently ignoring the ways in which the squad's been strengthened. Unless we're all subscribing to the view now that the 'first 11' and the 'squad' are completely separable things, that cannot be related where finances are concerned.

Edited November 1, 2009 by the boy

[Nunavut Patrick]

I stopped reading at when someone said Dossena and Riise can't split them.

 

I do know if you did split them there'd be far more Dossena to split that Riise.

[Durango]

You've missed the point. Again.

 

Finnan left, he was replaced in the squad by Degen. Finnan offered more than Degen and is a much, much better player, therefore it weakened the squad.

 

And you can't split Riise and Dossena????? Are you fucking kidding me?

 

No we didn't pay £10m for N'Gog, but that's got nothing to do with it. We paid £20m for Keane, and that's got nothing to do with it either. The point is, Crouch left and they were the replacements, and one of them isn't here anymore. This weakened the squad.

 

As for the Sami and Xabi ones, you are muddying the waters. Yes, we will have to wait and see on Aquilani, which is what I said. And there's nothing mystic about pointing out that we signed a player who was injured, and we've been paying him a big salary when he couldn't even play.

 

You asked me to show how the squad had been weakened and I did do. I'm not going into every deal and saying whether it was Rafa's fault, or if it was the player's fault, if it was Parry's fault or if we should blame it on the boogie. I said the squad has been weakened over several windows, you disputed it and asked me to explain. I have.

Finnian was replaced by Arbeloa,Degan was bought in as back up for Arbeloa, not FINNIAN. (with Johnson now there,are we weaker or stronger in that position)

 

What fuckin part of," I want to go" (Alonso,Hyypia) is Muddying the fuckin waters!!!!!!

As for am "I fuckin kidding you" regarding Dossena and Riise,it's highly likely that both will move in the not to distant future and it will be interesting to see what kind of fee's they go for?