You know what?

[redrosetints]

I don't think we got done by a 'counter attack' in the traditional sense. We got done because Lucas was beaten by a piece of skill and fouled someone. If they'd caught us on a three v two break or something and we were short of numbers, that would be unforgivable, but they didn't, we had plenty back and had Lucas just jockeyed his man there wouldn't have been a problem.

 

The mere fact that Lucas was even in his own box defending shows we weren't over committed. I feel sorry for Lucas, he had a decent game and just got beaten by a piece of skill and left his foot in. He's got a habit of giving silly free-kicks away and he is to blame for the penalty, but I still feel sorry for him as he must feel like crap today.

 

We could have had all eleven men in our own penalty area, but would that have stopped Lucas from tripping Koumas? I don't think it would.

 

Your wrong Dave, heres the link. on 8 minutes.

 

Sorry but for once you are factually incorrect on that statement. The commentator even says, that Wigan have the numbers arriving.

 

Wigan 1-1 Liverpool MOTD Music Video by Week 23 EPL

 

Masch had the ball, Lucas was square, 3 were back defending, 5 were on their 18yd line, edge of their box. Masch played the ball to Gerrard, it was intercepted and hoofed forward, they had all the momentm as their players were running onto the ball, ours, bar 3 were coming backwards.

[Zippy]

Having been through a recent poor run of results, losing the lead at the top of the prem. Not getting enough wins and having blown the lead in the last 5 minutes against your local rivals, Id say wining one nil and preserving that lead should be our no1 priority.

 

We do that, not by defending deep, or booming it long to Torres, but by playing pass and move possession football, which is what Rafas sides are famous for and what we do week in week out. When were trying to get a goal, its been a problem for us recently, but when were in the lead, we are more than capable of keeping it on the deck, finding another red shirt and slowly gridning the opposition into the ground.

 

Therefore, any tactical change or substitution should be done with that in mind. When you're winning 1-0, having let the lead go last week, we should have put our foot on it, kept possession and the points.

 

Instead, the players go charging up the pitch looking for a 2nd, it was madness on the players part, they completley lost their formation and shape and heads.

 

 

 

Got to disagree with that there is no way that Rafa's sides are famous for their passing and movement, workrate and organisation certainly but definitely not passing and as for movement I am shocked as our off the ball movement when in possession is generally appalling.

[dave u]

Your wrong Dave, heres the link. on 8 minutes.

 

Sorry but for once you are factually incorrect on that statement. The commentator even says, that Wigan have the numbers arriving.

 

Wigan 1-1 Liverpool MOTD Music Video by Week 23 EPL

 

Masch had the ball, Lucas was square, 3 were back defending, 5 were on their 18yd line, edge of their box. Masch played the ball to Gerrard, it was intercepted and hoofed forward, they had all the momentm as their players were running onto the ball, ours, bar 3 were coming backwards.

 

Looking at it again, yeah we were on the hop a bit and it was a counter attack. Arbeloa went chasing the ball and ended up way out of position which allowed them to overload the left side.

 

Even so, we had enough people back to deal with it had Lucas not tripped Koumas. Just jockey him and stop the cross and there's no problem. It was individual mistakes (giving the ball away and then the foul) that caused it rather than us having too many men forward in my opinion.

 

I was wrong to say it wouldn't happened if we had eleven men back though, as they wouldn't have been able to break down our right flank if that had been the case.

[King Emlyn]

Thing is, if we were to wallop Chelsea at the weekend everybody would be beating their chests screaming "believe". I just don't understand modern football. Oh for the days of Jimmy Hill, Football Focus, Kick off and the Big Match.........Things made so much more sense then.

[hamstrung]

Thing is, if we were to wallop Chelsea at the weekend everybody would be beating their chests screaming "believe". I just don't understand modern football. Oh for the days of Jimmy Hill, Football Focus, Kick off and the Big Match.........Things made so much more sense then.

 

Isn't it.Hmmm

 

[redrosetints]

Looking at it again, yeah we were on the hop a bit and it was a counter attack. Arbeloa went chasing the ball and ended up way out of position which allowed them to overload the left side.

 

Even so, we had enough people back to deal with it had Lucas not tripped Koumas. Just jockey him and stop the cross and there's no problem. It was individual mistakes (giving the ball away and then the foul) that caused it rather than us having too many men forward in my opinion.

 

I was wrong to say it wouldn't happened if we had eleven men back though, as they wouldn't have been able to break down our right flank if that had been the case.

 

Lucas just raced 70 yards at full pelt to get there as had Masch. Its far easier to attack, running onto the ball than defend.

 

At the time the interception was made, we were in 3-2-5 formation, 7 inside the last third in their half. If I could find a vid that showed that conclusivley I would, but all the highlights are from MoTD and show Rafa, then cut straight to the ball being lumped over the top in mid flight, does nayone have a link to the full game.

[ScottyT]

I also feel sorry for Lucas as he tackles like a girl.

 

To be fair, he looks anything but a defensive midfielder, but that seems to be the way he's being developed.

[Red Paul]

Probably because people think you're Momo.

 

What do you mean?

[hamstrung]

What do you mean?

 

See one post above.

[Red Paul]

See one post above.

 

Sorry, I don't get it.

[Section_31]

Thing is, if we were to wallop Chelsea at the weekend everybody would be beating their chests screaming "believe". I just don't understand modern football. Oh for the days of Jimmy Hill, Football Focus, Kick off and the Big Match.........Things made so much more sense then.

 

Isn't it.Hmmm

 

 

Ace.

 

There are a lot of people who stick to their guns on here though.

 

I very rarely venture over here these days but there's a hard core of about half a dozen who don't change their tune regardless, some people don't like that "we've just won but you're fucking moaning arghhhh!!!" but I respect anyone who says what they think regardless of whether or not they'll get shit and regardless of the overall vibe.

 

Coming on after a goal by Kuyt and saying 'Gotta love Dirk' is far worse than someone slating our lack of width after a 4-0 win.

[Unrighteous]

Thing is, if we were to wallop Chelsea at the weekend everybody would be beating their chests screaming "believe". I just don't understand modern football. Oh for the days of Jimmy Hill, Football Focus, Kick off and the Big Match.........Things made so much more sense then.

 

I can't agree with that. I think a lot of people will but I still won't re-think my turn.

 

I'm done with the owners, the board, the infighting and rafa. I want them all gone.

[JMARKH]

There will obviously be a lot of negative posts on here today so allow me to give a little perspective.

 

Okay - we couldn't beat Wigan (or Stoke - twice, or Fulham, or the shite - twice or West Ham or Spurs when they were in the bottom three) but that misses the point.

Wigan are a big club. Massive. Huge. So did we go there with unrealistic expectations in beating them? They were after all 2nd Division champions in 2003 and in 1999 won the Auto Windscreens Shield trophy. They are also managed by someone who is obviously astute and clearly an England manager - or the manager of one our biggest rivals in the very near future (Getting relegated with Birmingham was just a blip). So who says we have an automatic right to the points against such stellar opposition.

 

And then there is Rafa. Now we all know Rafa is a tactical magician and again he illustrated it last night. I was particularly impressed with the withdrawal of Nando to be replaced with Riera. Rafa is creating a whole new formation and you lot are just too thick to appreciate it. Forget your 4-4-2's. Your 4-5-1. Or even your 4-2-2-1-1. Rafa's preferred formation when you are one nil up is 4-6-0. Inpsired. Almost as inspired as withdrawing the one man that pulls you out of the mire time and time and time again when you concede a late equaliser to give him an extra seven minutes rest.

 

You see football has for many years now been an easy game complicated by idiots. Rafa has shown me that it can be as complicated as chess if you have the right intellectual capacity and I for one think he should be applauded for it. I look forward to next uninspiring draw with a buzz of excitement as Rafa again seeks to show me the error of my ways as he intelligently moves his human pieces around the green chess board and apsires to not getting beaten.

 

Quality.

[coachpotato]

The frustration on here and other boards, as well as in the pubs, clubs, workplaces etc. is to be expected.

We've all built up our hopes of winning the title because of the fact that we've been at the top for so long this season.

Most will have realised earlier on in the season that we weren't (and aren't) playing like a team which could win the title, but the pressure from the Mancs nearing an 18th title, and from Chelsea (who are not out of it yet) coupled with our hope that we'd put a gap between ourselves and the others "when we start playing well" has meant it's been like a poker sticking in every time we've dropped points.

So many draws, too many points dropped.

The same as last season and probably the same or similar results this. 3rd at best?

And yet, should we kick into any kind of run of form, the likelyhood will be we'll give anyone a run for their money.

There's a long way to go yet, and the interference of the CL to come, not just to us, but also to the Mancs and the Chavs. They will both drop points along the way.

Rafa has made poor decisions and at bad times, of that there's no doubt.

Rafa, in my opinion, also plays things too safe overall, but that doesn't necessarily mean that our chances are gone.

It's unlikely we'll win the title, but it isn't dead yet, and until it is completely gone, I think we should try and keep our frustrations under control, difficult as it might be, as to start a civil war amongst US, with all that is (allegedly) going on behind the scenes, would almost certainly put the knife in Rafa, our chances and the chance of keeping hold of the 3 or 4 top class players we have.

[ToxtethTerror]

There will obviously be a lot of negative posts on here today so allow me to give a little perspective.

 

Okay - we couldn't beat Wigan (or Stoke - twice, or Fulham, or the shite - twice or West Ham or Spurs when they were in the bottom three) but that misses the point.

Wigan are a big club. Massive. Huge. So did we go there with unrealistic expectations in beating them? They were after all 2nd Division champions in 2003 and in 1999 won the Auto Windscreens Shield trophy. They are also managed by someone who is obviously astute and clearly an England manager - or the manager of one our biggest rivals in the very near future (Getting relegated with Birmingham was just a blip). So who says we have an automatic right to the points against such stellar opposition.

 

And then there is Rafa. Now we all know Rafa is a tactical magician and again he illustrated it last night. I was particularly impressed with the withdrawal of Nando to be replaced with Riera. Rafa is creating a whole new formation and you lot are just too thick to appreciate it. Forget your 4-4-2's. Your 4-5-1. Or even your 4-2-2-1-1. Rafa's preferred formation when you are one nil up is 4-6-0. Inpsired. Almost as inspired as withdrawing the one man that pulls you out of the mire time and time and time again when you concede a late equaliser to give him an extra seven minutes rest.

 

You see football has for many years now been an easy game complicated by idiots. Rafa has shown me that it can be as complicated as chess if you have the right intellectual capacity and I for one think he should be applauded for it. I look forward to next uninspiring draw with a buzz of excitement as Rafa again seeks to show me the error of my ways as he intelligently moves his human pieces around the green chess board and apsires to not getting beaten.

 

Funny! :thumbsup:

[stringvest]

Well if Rafa said that, he really has gone mad. I can't think of any manager, who, when 1-0 up, having thrown away the lead in their derby a week before and having had the pressure of the results he's had, who wouldn't take the 3 points and close the game down.

 

Its getting ahead were not so good at, once we get ahead, we win and close it out.

 

Either way, its rather cheeky of those who insist Rafa is negative, to then hit him with the negative stick when his team werent being so.

 

I think we've looked better each season since Istanbul, but you know that. Up until this season, where results have been better, performances not. If we repeat our run in of last year, we'll get 84 points and be 2nd 2 off the top, more than satisfying for me right now.

 

What about you ?

 

I've said all season I will wait until the end of the season before judging it, and Rafa's overall performance. I will say though that imo we generally produce performances and results worse than we might expect with the players we have. In other words, under Rafa - increasingly so - I believe we are less than the sum of our parts.

[Zippy]

I've said all season I will wait until the end of the season before judging it, and Rafa's overall performance. I will say though that imo we generally produce performances and results worse than we might expect with the players we have. In other words, under Rafa - increasingly so - I believe we are less than the sum of our parts.

 

 

I tend to agree. What I would add though is that in all fairness he overperforms in the CL whilst underperforms in the Premiership.

 

 

I think few if any managers would outperform him with the same players in the CL but I also think quite a few managers including some that aren't top class might outperform him with the same players in the Premier league.

[Catch22]

I tend to agree. What I would add though is that in all fairness he overperforms in the CL whilst underperforms in the Premiership.

 

 

I think few if any managers would outperform him with the same players in the CL but I also think quite a few managers including some that aren't top class might outperform him with the same players in the Premier league.

 

 

Although you might well be correct he has actually slightly over-achieved in the PL relative to our budget.

 

Now that doesn't mean someone else couldn't do better, but it does mean that someone with more to spend than us is underachieving.

 

Step forward Mr.Wenger.

 

& lets us never forget "Where's your European Cups?" so why is this never in the British media?

[Zippy]

Although you might well be correct he has actually slightly over-achieved in the PL relative to our budget.

 

Now that doesn't mean someone else couldn't do better, but it does mean that someone with more to spend than us is underachieving.

 

Step forward Mr.Wenger.

 

& lets us never forget "Where's your European Cups?" so why is this never in the British media?

 

Sure you can tell us the figures but although Arsenal may have a higher wage bill than us I would be very surprised if in recent years their transfer spending is anywhere near ours.

 

Torres, Keane, Mascherano are all £17 million pound plus players and I struggle to remember any recent Arsenal buys in that price range and certainly not three.

[WaltonRed]

I can't agree with that. I think a lot of people will but I still won't re-think my turn.

 

I'm done with the owners, the board, the infighting and rafa. I want them all gone.

 

Spot on.