This needs to be nipped in the bud...

[Ted]

I believe there was a deal that Rafa wouldn't go for any Valencia players. Might be wrong?

 

Aurelio was free.

 

Yeah, you're wrong.

 

He didn't want to bring any of them here because he wanted to be on good terms with the fans if he ever went back.

[Barrington Womble]

I think players like Alonso, Macherano, Kuyt and Reina would all try their hardest very game whether teh manger was gonna leave or not.

 

They wouldn't know he was leaving anyway.

 

So if he said I'm not signing a new contract and my current one expires in 12 months, why would they think he was staying?

[PaulMcC]

So if he said I'm not signing a new contract and my current one expires in 12 months, why would they think he was staying?

 

I don't think he'd say I'm definitely not signing another one.

[Barrington Womble]

I don't think he'd say I'm definitely not signing another one.

 

ok, you bury you head in the ground and keep thinkng everything is rosey. i'll stay in the real world thanks.

[PaulMcC]

ok, you bury you head in the ground and keep thinkng everything is rosey. i'll stay in the real world thanks.

 

Everything isn't rosy. The club is a fucking mess. Rafa fucked up by buying Keane in the summer too.

 

Rafa isn't at fault for everything that goes wrong either.

[dave u]

This bit really screamed out at me when I read Balague's latest piece:

 

"I applaud Martin for making this point, when so many have been quick to criticise Rafa for spending £20 million on Robbie Keane. We will never know what Rafa – if left to his own devices – would have paid for the Spurs striker. But what we do know is that it was not Rafa’s decision to spend £20 million on Keane as he does not negotiate the deals – while at the same time it was the club that decided not to pay £18 million for Gareth Barry. And that is the point. Martin does not mention that, perhaps, if it had been up to Rafa, he would not have bought Keane at the first time of asking, that he may have held out and negotiated the price down."

 

The suggestion that Parry goes out and does deals without saying to Rafa "this is how much it's gonna cost, do you still want to pay that?" is laughable.

[diego]

As a regular lurker here it is clear that several posters will interpret all events according to their anti-Rafa agenda.

 

Bascombe treats this as his home site. He is a journalist who seems to feel the need constantly to suggest that he has privileged access to certain players and administrators and much of his "insights" or "exclusives" have a mild anti-Rafa tinge. I attribute this to the fact that Rafa does not give him privileged access.

 

The same is true of Dave U. He balance his comments and they are well argued but he also implies or suggests he has information directly from players or indirectly from Bascombe.

 

Ballague is pro-Rafa and sometimes also implies, without stating, that he gets his information from the club. He usually goes out of his way to characterise his source as though to prevent anyone claiming it was from Rafa. In this case his main source was an article in another newspaper. He added his own comments and did not imply or suggest that Rafa was his source. He talked about "an open secret" at the club.

 

As to the substance - I think it ridiculous for anyone to suggest that players would not consider their options if a manager - any manager - left. Of course they would - all of them - including SG as he did the last time a manager left.

 

We do not know all the circumstances but it seems likely that if Rafa left it would be because the owners were unwilling to trust him with the transfer budget.

 

In the unlikely event that Rafa will be without an extension to his contract going into next season it would be a major topic of discussion within the club and in the media. It would be very unsettling. He would be a "lame-duck" manager. That would weaken his ability to motivate current players and attract new players. Everyone would be discussing why the club had let him go and whether it heralded further deterioration in the finances and management structure. Players and their agents would be stupid not to consider their options. This would be especially true of those attracted by the "Spanish" dimension of the club or by Rafa's reputation or his role in recruiting them. Rafa's impending disappearance would encourage other clubs and agents to target our players.

 

The situation could be stabilised if Rafa were to leave in the summer and the club were to announce a new manager of similar stature.

 

But any self-respecting senior ,manager would make the same contractual demands Rafa is making. I must say I am surprised he agreed to his current contract because he made it clear he left Valencia in order to find a club where he could be manager rather than coach.

[Barrington Womble]

Everything isn't rosy. The club is a fucking mess. Rafa fucked up by buying Keane in the summer too.

 

Rafa isn't at fault for everything that goes wrong either.

 

Did I say he was? No, so stop jumping to conclusions. Do I think he's as big a cunt as Parry, Hicks and Gillet? Yes I do, as far as I'm concerned the lot of them can get the fuck out of the club tomorrow.

[Unrighteous]

The issue here isn't that the club want to 'set a deadline' or an ultimatum, Anny Road.

 

Rafa doesn't want Parry sticking his nose into the transfers and I agree with that.

 

I think Parry is a fucking moron. Backing Parry over Rafa is a pretty silly stance to take considering one consistantly fucks things up and one has brought us two trophies.

[PaulMcC]

Did I say he was? No, so stop jumping to conclusions. Do I think he's as big a cunt as Parry, Hicks and Gillet? Yes I do, as far as I'm concerned the lot of them can get the fuck out of the club tomorrow.

 

You jumped to conclusions that i thought everything was rosey.

 

You can jump to conclusions, but i cant?

[Unrighteous]

The suggestion that Parry goes out and does deals without saying to Rafa "this is how much it's gonna cost, do you still want to pay that?" is laughable.

 

It seems totally ridiculous, to be honest, but when looking at Parry's track record do you think it improbable?

[dave u]

But any self-respecting senior ,manager would make the same contractual demands Rafa is making. I must say I am surprised he agreed to his current contract because he made it clear he left Valencia in order to find a club where he could be manager rather than coach.

 

Look at the list of players he's been allowed to sign, and the fees he paid for some of them. Then tell me he's just a coach with no say on transfers.

 

Or are you telling me that Parry went out and scouted Dossena, Leto, Paletta, Gonzalez, Dossena, Degen and the rest, and forced them onto Benitez?

 

He's got pretty much all the control he needs, but he didn't get Barry and that's the crux of this. He's got 100 times more control than he had at Valencia, or would have if he left for Madrid.

 

He might not have as much control as he wants, but the suggestion he's just a coach is not backed up by any evidence at all.

[coop]

I personally look at the bigger picture at what is going off at Anfield and Rafa's contract is not what is worrying me.

 

What i am concerned about it was is going to happen after July concerning the club.

 

When July comes one of three situations must occur and that is either Hicks(and Gillett but i doubt he will be here then) gets refinance from the bank, the club is sold to a new investor or the banks take control of the club after the current owners fail to pay back the loan.

 

The banks will not want to take control of the club so therefore will begrudingly offer Hicks terms to refinance, whether he can afford these terms i very much doubt but as with anything with these two owners nothing will surprise me.

 

If Hicks gets sole control it will be at the expense of Parry leaving and obviously Gillett selling a small percentage of his share to Hicks and the rest to another investor which Hicks will agree to.

 

Once this has happened nothing is stopping Hicks loading all the debt of the refinance onto the club.

 

Whilst we have a squad capable of qualifying for the Champions League as a team we will stagnate because they will be zero money for transfers as every penny will be spent servicing the debt and allowing Hicks a nice little dividend.

 

Whilst our star players say they will stay now will they stay if they know there is little chance of Premier League glory and if we are lucky we will be fighting for Champions League qualification.

 

Torres left Atletico Madrid because he wanted to win trophies so he is unlikley to hang around if the situation here means he has more chance of silverware if he was back in Madrid.

 

If think Rafa is wrong to use the media to air any grievance but the bigger picture is not this contract problem as on the horizon is the reality that Liverpool FC are in big trouble is very near.

[diego]

He did not get several players he wanted over the last four years, players who would have materially improved the club, because, according to him, he did not have the powers to move quickly and do the deals. Those players were snapped up by other clubs as we dawdled.

[dave u]

He did not get several players he wanted over the last four years, players who would have materially improved the club, because, according to him, he did not have the powers to move quickly and do the deals. Those players were snapped up by other clubs as we dawdled.

 

I'm not disputing that. You implied he was just a coach though, which is wrong.

[1892-LFCWasBorn]

Football is such a simple game and for me Rafa seems to complicate matters unnecessarily on and off the pitch far too much for my liking.

[HJohal]

Look at the list of players he's been allowed to sign, and the fees he paid for some of them. Then tell me he's just a coach with no say on transfers.

 

Or are you telling me that Parry went out and scouted Dossena, Leto, Paletta, Gonzalez, Dossena, Degen and the rest, and forced them onto Benitez?

 

He's got pretty much all the control he needs, but he didn't get Barry and that's the crux of this. He's got 100 times more control than he had at Valencia, or would have if he left for Madrid.

 

He might not have as much control as he wants, but the suggestion he's just a coach is not backed up by any evidence at all.

 

What about Reina, Arbeloa, Skertal, Agger, Aurellio, Sissoko, Mascherano, Kuyt, Reira, Alonso, Torres, Garcia etc ?

 

He has got far more right than he has wrong as that is shown by the progress we have made in the last 4.5 years since when he arrived and they are damn sight better than either Houllier, Evans or Souness.

 

The issue is that Rafa cannot work with Parry due to his alleged incompetance, under the circumstances there is little chance of Parry being moved on due to politics the next best thing is if he is bypassed on transfers and any other footballing decisions until we have new owners. I would rather Rafa had ownership for all footballing decisions rather than Parry.

[Barrington Womble]

You jumped to conclusions that i thought everything was rosey.

 

You can jump to conclusions, but i cant?

 

 

You were certainly indicating everything was rosey with you "rafa won't tell people he's going, the players will work hard regardless" type attitude.

[Juan Galonso]

Did I say he was? No, so stop jumping to conclusions. Do I think he's as big a cunt as Parry, Hicks and Gillet? Yes I do, as far as I'm concerned the lot of them can get the fuck out of the club tomorrow.

 

So few words, so much sense. Spot on as ever.

[PaulMcC]

You were certainly indicating everything was rosey with you "rafa won't tell people he's going, the players will work hard regardless" type attitude.

 

If, as people say, the players don't play for us because of Rafa then i expect them to try their hardest every game regardless of the manager's situation.

 

I never implied everything was rosey though.

[elvis]

Football is such a simple game and for me Rafa seems to complicate matters unnecessarily on and off the pitch far too much for my liking.

He is a perfectionist and he wants things done his way, he is the person best qualified at the club to make footballing decisions and player valuations imo.

[ToxtethTerror]

You have to wonder whether any of the board or management care about the club above themselves. I'd not cry if they all left en masse. The big issue for me and some of the lads I go the game with is whether Rafa will end up thinking he is bigger than the club if he gets his way. Just because he and Hicks don't like Rick Parry the club is being tossed around like a rag doll.

 

The original post on this thread is frightening because it suggests a media game is being played with my beloved club.

 

I wish the Echo had the balls to expose the lot of them for what they are but they won't want to upset any of them not least Rafa himself.

 

Whers is SoS? Why can't they get on this and have a "truth squad" kind of thing to help us clueless fans?

 

I want Rafa to stay but with eachday he makes it more difficult as he uses the goodwill of the fans and players to play politics in order to gain more power.

[1892-LFCWasBorn]

He is a perfectionist and he wants things done his way, he is the person best qualified at the club to make footballing decisions and player valuations imo.

 

So you would have been happy selling Xabi and then buying Barry for £18m in the summer?

[Unrighteous]

It seems totally ridiculous, to be honest, but when looking at Parry's track record do you think it improbable?

 

Soooommmeeebody answer me! (Warning: attention whoring in progress)

 

edit: that quote was in response to Dave U's "Do you think Parry doesn't ring back Rafa and say this is how much said is going to cost do you want me to proceed?"

[Dougie Do'ins]

Yeah i reckon its just Ballagues usual made up bullshit.

Then why hasn't Rafa come out and said Balagues a lying fat cunt.