If TLW had to decide should Rafa stay or go?

[ratcatcher]

As I said before, deffo stay and see what improvements he brings next season which, hopefully, will be many.

[bobhorse]

Not only stay but he should have another 5 year deal to sign right now

[King Emlyn]

Not only stay but he should have another 5 year deal to sign right now

I wouldn't disagree with that, he's worked magnificently under intolerable pressure this season, i don't think anybody could argue that he hasn't earned a new contract.

[Rashid]

Not only stay but he should have another 5 year deal to sign right now

 

You seriously believe that mate? No trophy for 2 seasons, no league challenge in 4, deserves a new contract? I'd say he deserves to see out his contract and to see if he cracks the league, but 5 years?

[Paul]

He denied that he wanted Rafa sacked mid season and said that he'd wait till May. He was challenged on a number of occasions about this by myself and possibly Drewy, he continued to say he didn't want him sacked and that he'd make his mind up in May. However, on this thread he says that he wanted him sacked mid-season but he's changed his mind. Draw your own conclusions.

 

Maybe it's just my perception of what happened rather than the reality, but I thought Rash said he wanted Rafa out at the same time I said that if he'd lost the players he had to go.

[Rashid]

Correct. I did say I wanted him out as soon as I realised we were not winning the league... it was only normal given the "Minimum Requirement". I think he deserves another year though, but certainly doesn't deserve a new contract.

[Stu Monty]

Part of me wishes that we sack him and never get out of the group stages again.

 

It really, really does.

[ratcatcher]

Part of me wishes that we sack him and never get out of the group stages again.

 

It really, really does.

 

 

Sorry but you're seriously deluding yourself if you think no other manager would get us out of the group stages.

 

Point is, people want to see us as more than a 'cup' team which is, essentially what the CL is. He's done better than great in the CL but we have had the chance to rest players in the PL for a couple of these games.

 

Many people seem to think we need mega signings to challenge for the title (dont confuse that with winning the title, either) but equally, a number think with a settled side we'd put that challenge in.

 

For benitez to be considered more than just a great manager in Europe, he has to make that leap and show we can challenge for the PL. I think he can do that but only if he changes certain things.

[Stu Monty]

Sorry but you're seriously deluding yourself if you think no other manager would get us out of the group stages.

 

Point is, people want to see us as more than a 'cup' team which is, essentially what the CL is. He's done better than great in the CL but we have had the chance to rest players in the PL for a couple of these games.

 

Many people seem to think we need mega signings to challenge for the title (dont confuse that with winning the title, either) but equally, a number think with a settled side we'd put that challenge in.

 

For benitez to be considered more than just a great manager in Europe, he has to make that leap and show we can challenge for the PL. I think he can do that but only if he changes certain things.

 

 

I never said that, and don't believe it.

 

If he challenges for the league he will be vastly exceeding what can be rationally expected of him. I think he is capable of that but sacking him for not doing it because "He's had four years" is myopia of the most ignorant kind.

 

Time or money. Chelsea have had one, Utd have had both, Benitez needs one of the two befroe he can be judged fairly on attempts to break the top two.

[ratcatcher]

I never said that, and don't believe it.

 

If he challenges for the league he will be vastly exceeding what can be rationally expected of him. I think he is capable of that but sacking him for not doing it because "He's had four years" is myopia of the most ignorant kind.

 

Time or money. Chelsea have had one, Utd have had both, Benitez needs one of the two befroe he can be judged fairly on attempts to break the top two.

 

I really dont see the point in saying about him being sacked and never getting out the group stages then if that wasnt the inference.

 

I dont go with this shifting of the goalposts either. When he came, he was said to be a manager capable of challenging for the title without spending big.

 

Now, everyone is expected to be dumbed down and not even expect a challenge or closure of the gap. We've dropped points this season due to, amongst other things, some poor tactics and overtly negative approach to games which could have made a challenge more realistic.

 

Im convinced Benitez can make a realistic challenge without spending mega bucks. Playing two recognised strikers would be a step in the right direction.

[Stu Monty]

I really dont see the point in saying about him being sacked and never getting out the group stages then if that wasnt the inference.

 

I dont go with this shifting of the goalposts either. When he came, he was said to be a manager capable of challenging for the title without spending big.

 

Now, everyone is expected to be dumbed down and not even expect a challenge or closure of the gap. We've dropped points this season due to, amongst other things, some poor tactics and overtly negative approach to games which could have made a challenge more realistic.

 

Im convinced Benitez can make a realistic challenge without spending mega bucks. Playing two recognised strikers would be a step in the right direction.

 

Because it would make people realise that getting to the semi-final or final of the champions league each season is an amazing thing that should be appreciated. It would give some people a bit of perspective on where we were and where we are now.

 

I agree he was seen as being capable of doing that. That doesn't mean that you give him five years and ditch him because it hasn't happened. Either you think he's capable or you don't; time shouldn't really come into the equasion.

 

The strikers thing makes no sense. Neither Utd or Chelsea regularly play two recognised strikers, that's not the main issue.

[King Emlyn]

He's definitely done enough to warrant a new deal, he's most definitely got faults (despite what the wailing histrionics from the "Benitez Youth" say) but to replace him would be madness.

[Hermes]

If you keep doing the same thing you get the same result. Something has to change.

 

Rotation, signing mediocrity to replace mediocrity, constant changing of tactics and defensive approach are holding the club back.

 

If the manager won't change then the club must change the manager.

[Baps]

Yeah, those two CL finals in just four seasons are really holding us back.

 

We'd be huge without them.

[TonyTNT]

Not only stay but he should have another 5 year deal to sign right now

 

Couldn't agree more

[Stu Monty]

If you keep doing the same thing you get the same result. Something has to change.

 

Rotation, signing mediocrity to replace mediocrity, constant changing of tactics and defensive approach are holding the club back.

 

If the manager won't change then the club must change the manager.

 

He rotates less than Ferguson. Fact.

 

Therefore rotation in itself isn't the issue. Fact.

[Paul]

If you keep doing the same thing you get the same result. Something has to change.

 

Rotation, signing mediocrity to replace mediocrity, constant changing of tactics and defensive approach are holding the club back.

 

If the manager won't change then the club must change the manager.

 

I completely agree. However, the reason I'm happy to see Rafa get at least another year is that there have been signs that he is changing: signing Torres and The Chief, going for it against The Arse, the more settled side and system in 2008. Furthermore, the small shoots of fruition are starting to show from his youth recruitment policy (Plessis and Insua) as well as the first tentative signs of the squad players being able to produce when he leaves out all the big boy. If that continues, then I'd be entirely in agreement with Stu about time and money. However, if it doesn't and we don't have a season in the league of the quality of the '05-'06 one, then it will be time for a change.

[Rashid]

Stu is talking about a bissful situation though, lots of money, lots of time, great owners, no pressure etc etc. Rafa earns £3m a year, and life isn't easy and all managers have pressure.

 

For me he simply has to challenge for the league title next season.

[Paul]

Assuming the signs I mentioned above are clear for all to see, I'd be happy to resurrect that dreaded word "progress". Progression for us in the league next season would mean another eight to ten points or so. Whether that puts into contention or not is out of our hands.

[Rashid]

Yes, Paul let's keep raising the bar by a millimetre, then lowering it again (depending on any issue that might effect the manager/players) and then raising it by a fraction again. That way, we have a great situation at Liverpool - no pressue. Bit like the way Wenger works at Arsenal - except he spends no money so deserves it.

 

Mourinho may be right, the jobs at Liverpool and Arsenal are much less pressurised than other big clubs.

[Dirk]

I think it's time to stop frequenting this site.

[Rashid]

As if anyone gives a fuck? The self importance from some people is astounding. This is a forum with a "mish mash" of views you girl.

[Paul]

Hang on Rash - I'm talking about 85 points-ish. That would put us right in the mix this season. What we can't control is how the other teams do. Neil was talking a lot of sense about getting more out of what we have elsewhere and I think that we'd do that if Rafa did the things I outlined above.

[Hand Shandy]

This comment, from you, is just fucking mind-boggling! :wallbutt:

 

You really can be a knob-jockey, you know that don't you?

[Paul]

This comment, from you, is just fucking mind-boggling! :wallbutt:

 

You really can be a knob-jockey, you know that don't you?

 

No need, mate.