We're not going to get anyone good are we...

[redrosetints]

The word is that we've enquired about Eto'o but he only wants to move to a London club and doesn't want to live in Liverpool. So unless we sort him a helicopter it seems he'll be playing for Arsenal.

 

This is from a former shareholder who knows a friend who knows Moores etc.

 

 

So lets sign Henry.

[Hamma]

Paul and Rash has returned the compliment over on EST

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=25512

He's somewhere in the thread defending you some bad bells on there though.

 

Unlike that forum, this is why I appreciate I appreciate TLW ...

[aws]

Paul and Rash sitting in a tree...

[Section_31]

Heven’t read most of this, but I will say i don’t think Rafa gives a shit how much a player costs, nor do I think he’d lose any sleep if he’d paid 20m for Alves.

It’s simply been a case in the past of making do with what relatively little cash he has to spend.

 

What the mancs have just done is classic Liverpool policy, win a trophy then go and spend loads of money on quality.

 

We haven’t done that in living memory, even after the CL win when for the first time in fifteen years we were a sellable prospect to quality players.

[Redexile]

Were you one of the ones (like me) who said Ronaldo was over-rated and had no end product? Were you one of the ones who (like me) said United were in dramatic decline last summer and had no hope of the title? Are you one of the ones (unlike me) who thinks last season was a mere flash in the pan from a lucky United side?

 

The Giggs and Scholes comparisons are crude, but that is basically what they are signing, isn't it? What else would you call spending £35m on two teenagers, one a winger and one an attacking midfielder, if not? They haven't just grabbed a player list from Football Manager and a pin to pick these players, you know. They scouted them and acted decisively. What's more, they'll be introducing them whilst they still have the originals playing fucking brilliant football.

 

And let's not forget Hargreaves, either (who many still like to dismiss as shite): he's very fast, reads the game well, has a good short passing game and has stamina to match an Olympic middle distance runner.

 

To be honest, as things stand, I find United to be a frightening prospect. They are two - let's just say that again, and think about it for a second - two league titles behind us. Would you bet against it being down to one in a year's time? I certainly wouldn't.

 

I'll start by answering your questions. Yes I didn't think United would win the league last season. They deservedly did but let's also take cogniscance of the fact that they had a great opening fixture list and that little bit of luck with injuries.They will again be a threat. Ronaldo I thought was great signing- after seeing him tear the back out of the Mancs in a pre -season friendly- but I thought overpriced at the time. With hindsight probably not.

However , here we are what is it 10 days after the champions league final and we are thinking we are already out of it. As much as I would love to see the headlines on Sky being about us right now, I'm prepared to be a little patient especially with La Liga in progress.

Now my questions for you. What will your thoughts be if we are lining up for training with the following additions Silva, Tevez / Et'oo and Mancini or Alves?

What were your thoughts when the Mancs signed Veron and before that Poborski? What were your thoughts when Chelsea signed Shevchenko and Crespo before him. The point I was making was that they might look to be good signings but only time will tell.

[redrosetints]

I spoke to an American on my travels a while back, a big sportsfan. When I asked him about Hicks and Gillett he nearly wet himself.

 

I'm not convinced they have that much money to give us. He didn't fill me with any confidence and the signs aren't good.

 

But if we usually manage 20m, plus the money from the CL run and the increase in TV revenue, they should still be able to spend net 50m. Who knows, maybe Xabi is worth cashing in on too, he's got to be worth 20 to 25m

[motty]

Can you buy success?

[Moschops II]

Now my questions for you. What will your thoughts be if we are lining up for training with the following additions Silva, Tevez / Et'oo and Mancini or Alves?

 

But what Paul's been talking about is actual signings that the Mancs have made - actual flesh and blood players now on their books, and available to turn out for them as of July the 1st..

 

What you're talking about is just a series of other clubs' players.

 

Also, if all we're waiting for is the end of the Spanish season before we swing into action, then we're obviously not signing Tevez or Mancini.

[sh#t waffle]

I don't feel like I am being blinkered, and I'm certainly not being unnecessarily positive. All I am trying to do is give the whole club more than 13 hours of the transfer window to get things right. United have potentially bought brilliantly, though the Portugese league is no guarantee of success here. Scholes was a major player for them this season, so it will be interesting to see what happens as they try to accommodate Hargreaves. We have signed a player in Lucas who seems to be rated extremely highly - and we have a Spanish manager who buys predominantly from the Spanish market - who is probably going to have to wait till the Spanish season finishes to make the big money bids we all agree we need. I think that is why he wants Malouda fixed asap, as there is no sense in leaving all our deals for weeks. I can well understand cynicism towards Parry, but I think writing off our close season and by association next season already is retarded, and not simply 'being realistic'.

[redrosetints]

I feel like I've fundamentally changed in the way I see us. I've built my hopes up unrealistically on too many occasions only to be let down time after time. We are a great club, but not a great team and I'm not going to be swayed from saying so. I just think there is very little left to believe in at Liverpool any more, Carra excepted. I want to see before I believe from now on. Anything else seems almost childish in its naivity. That's not to say I've lost any passion, though, because I haven't. I just now know that I'm no longer prepared to deny the undeniable: we are currently way behind our rivals and it seems like Rafa has doubts about the level of support he's getting from above. I want that to change because I want us to win the league again. 1990 was a very, very long time ago.

 

I remember going through a similar feeling post 89, which reached its peak in the Souness years. Fair enough then chap, your one of dark side now .......

 

But hopefully, one day you'll return back to a lead jedi again. :thumbup:

[Redexile]

But what Paul's been talking about is actual signings that the Mancs have made - actual flesh and blood players now on their books, and available to turn out for them as of July the 1st..

 

What you're talking about is just a series of other clubs' players.

 

Also, if all we're waiting for is the end of the Spanish season before we swing into action, then we're obviously not signing Tevez or Mancini.

 

The point is a lot of people are assuming we are doing nothing. We could possibly be doing a hell of a lot but nobody knows that. As far as signings go we have signed the young Brazilian lad who plays for Gremio and Voronin.The thing is the season starts in August and here we are with people worrying about our title challenge already. You know what I could be wrong and if I am then G&H have got a lot of questions coming their way but at the moment I think it's too early to make a call.

[dave u]

I could be wrong and if I am then G&H have got a lot of questions coming their way but at the moment I think it's too early to make a call.

 

That's fair comment. At the moment they deserve the benefit of the doubt, but the longer it goes without us landing any top targets, the more hysterical people are going to get, and it's understandable to be fair.

 

This summer really could be make or break for us.

[Redexile]

That's fair comment. At the moment they deserve the benefit of the doubt, but the longer it goes without us landing any top targets, the more hysterical people are going to get, and it's understandable to be fair.

 

This summer really could be make or break for us.

 

 

And I'll be in there screaming too. I am miles away from you lot and TBH the usual Sky wankfest over the Manc signings pissed me off so I cna imagine some of the lads wanting us to be getting mentioned too but it's too early yet. I tell you one thing G&H would have a lot of questions to answer if F. all happens , especially after they were flashing all the Euro's around on telly.

 

BTW I think this summer could be make or break for Rafa and the club too.

[Ged B]

And I'll be in there screaming too. I am miles away from you lot and TBH the usual Sky wankfest over the Manc signings pissed me off so I cna imagine some of the lads wanting us to be getting mentioned too but it's too early yet. I tell you one thing G&H would have a lot of questions to answer if F. all happens , especially after they were flashing all the Euro's around on telly.

 

BTW I think this summer could be make or break for Rafa and the club too.[/QUOTE]

 

I think that's pretty much nailed on.

 

If he doesn't get major backing this summer, and we then have another dissapointing season (which we inevitabily would), then I think he'd be as good as gone next year.

[Redexile]

And I'll be in there screaming too. I am miles away from you lot and TBH the usual Sky wankfest over the Manc signings pissed me off so I cna imagine some of the lads wanting us to be getting mentioned too but it's too early yet. I tell you one thing G&H would have a lot of questions to answer if F. all happens , especially after they were flashing all the Euro's around on telly.

 

BTW I think this summer could be make or break for Rafa and the club too.[/QUOTE]

 

I think that's pretty much nailed on.

 

If he doesn't get major backing this summer, and we then have another dissapointing season (which we inevitabily would), then I think he'd be as good as gone next year.

 

I don't think he'd even start the season with us if the big signings he wants don't happen.

[RedPower]

I'm sorry mate - I know this is depressing reading. However, we need to wake the fuck up about the relative strengths of our own squad in comparison to those of the sides that finished above us (again) last season. There is no short cut or magic wand to catching up with these teams. We simply need to sign much better players than the ones we've got here right now. And that will cost us a huge amount of money.

 

It's not actually; reading the ramblings of geezers with an overblown notion of their own self-importance is quite amusing.

 

 

I'm sorry mate - I know this is depressing reading. However, we need to wake the fuck up about the relative strengths of our own squad in comparison to those of the sides that finished above us (again) last season. There is no short cut or magic wand to catching up with these teams. We simply need to sign much better players than the ones we've got here right now. And that will cost us a huge amount of money.

 

Erm, doesn't spending huge amounts on players to strengthen the team as opposed to bringing home-grown players through the system count as a short-cut then?

[Brownie]

I´m gonna try to not panic just yet, but I really hope that we don´t drag negotiations out like we always seem to do.

 

The Mancs have been pretty ruthless already and we really need to take heed from that.

 

If the money isn´t there and we have to shop around for scraps (again) then all of Rafa´s comments will be validated.

 

Hopefully he won´t be competing with one arm tied around his back again.

[redrosetints]

Its difficult to counter the negativity here, as Ive done so in the past three seasons, and to be honest, while not as bad as some think, we've generally not hit the heights (transfer wise) Id hoped for. And for anyone whose been arund in previous summers, or just knows him generally, you will be aware what a dramatic and fundamental change round Paul has undertaken, which I understand.

 

However, I can't take on this negative vibe, its just not me.

 

So heres the case against all this.

 

Firstly, why did we fail last season ? its no good worrying about transfers, and who the opposition have, we need to understand why we failed last year. For me there was 1 key area ;

 

Being clinical in front of goal.

 

It's almost become boring, but in the last two seasons we have often dominated games yet failed to convert our chances (Athens anyone?). WE may not be as attacking as other sides, but in our own way we create alot of chances which we fail to convert. This suggests that we need to either upgrade those in front of goal taking the chances or upgrade the quality of the chances created, ideally though, we'd do both. But the key here is we lack the individual flare that United have and those players are, not suprisingly, the players people will pay alot of money for and who therefore have been out of our reach for quite some years now.

 

The hope, (and of course why the gnashing of teeth as we havent seen any real evidence yet) is that this is in hand, since all the targets were being linked with are intended to provide either better delivery (Simao, Alves, Malouda) and better finishing (Tevez, Eto, Villa).

 

Look at Uniteds front 4, Rooney, Ronaldo, Giggs and Scholes. 40m on two players, plus two outstanding experienced pros, who arent too bad themselves. Look at Chelsea, Drogba, Robben, Lampard and Cole. That lot is worth at least 60m on the open market. Whilst we have, bless them, Kuyt, Crouch, Pennant and Gonzalez. Less than 30m the four. So while its not ALL about cash, Im afraid in the small details that make champions, those little extra bits that make winners money does talk and win things.

 

So why should we be optimistic ? Well were set at teh back and in the midfield. Neither United nor Chelsea are better than us in those areas, what we lack as aleraqdy said are the flair gamebreakers, and this summer is the summer when we actually get chance to make some of those signings.

 

If we dont, then ok, lets be dour. Of course even if we do get in 3 or 4 of these types of players, there are no guarantees, but if we can match United and Chelsea in the front 4 positions, with genuine pace, ability and delivery we can win no 19.

 

So G&T, as Paul said, show Rafa the money. Sign those players and Rafa will give you a title challenge.

[redrosetints]

That's fair comment. At the moment they deserve the benefit of the doubt, but the longer it goes without us landing any top targets, the more hysterical people are going to get, and it's understandable to be fair.

 

This summer really could be make or break for us.

 

So its our third make or break summer in three years then ! :whistle:

[redrosetints]

I´m gonna try to not panic just yet, but I really hope that we don´t drag negotiations out like we always seem to do.

 

The Mancs have been pretty ruthless already and we really need to take heed from that.

 

If the money isn´t there and we have to shop around for scraps (again) then all of Rafa´s comments will be validated.

 

Hopefully he won´t be competing with one arm tied around his back again.

 

We have already signed five players Brownie, dont forget.

[dave u]

We have already signed five players Brownie, dont forget.

 

And not one of them will improve the first eleven.

[Stu Monty]

That's fair comment. At the moment they deserve the benefit of the doubt, but the longer it goes without us landing any top targets, the more hysterical people are going to get, and it's understandable to be fair.

 

This summer really could be make or break for us.

 

Let's hope that people can't get much more hysterical because if the rate of hysteria against time was plotted on a graph and extrapolated it would leave Mount Everest shitting itself at the planet-tiltingly large size of the peak.

 

Fuck signing quickly, I was to sign well. And that'll be judged at the end of the summer, not on the day the transfer window opens.

[Paul]

It's not actually; reading the ramblings of geezers with an overblown notion of their own self-importance is quite amusing.

 

 

 

 

Erm, doesn't spending huge amounts on players to strengthen the team as opposed to bringing home-grown players through the system count as a short-cut then?

 

If that's aimed at me, you're wrong. On the specific point, I was agreeing that the forum/threads on this topic in general make for depressing reading. However, you just go ahead and be rude all you like.

 

As for the short cut point, I believe we need to sign players simply to get into the race. We've slowly been allowed to fall further and further behind for well over a decade until we've now reached the point where we will only catch up if we bring the quality in wholesale.

 

RedExile - As for how I'd feel if we signed "Big Names X, Y & Z", well, I'd clearly feel excited by the potential for better and more successful football. However, I would still have my doubts about our ability to go straight outr and win the league. They'd need time to bed in and adapt to both the club and English football. However, I do think they'd make us genuine contenders - and that's what I want. I'm sick of not even being also-rans.Beyond this summer, I would want and expect us to spend within our means. However, I would also expect our means to be dramatically increased.

 

My concerns are that, as things stand, our squad bears comparison with United's even less favourably and the imperative to strengthen it is even greater than it was a couple of days ago. Ordinarily I'd have been fine about that. However, Rafa's misgivings in the press have made me very worried that he won't get the backing he needs to level required.

[Original202]

Being clinical in front of goal.

 

It's almost become boring, but in the last two seasons we have often dominated games yet failed to convert our chances (Athens anyone?). WE may not be as attacking as other sides, but in our own way we create alot of chances which we fail to convert. This suggests that we need to either upgrade those in front of goal taking the chances or upgrade the quality of the chances created, ideally though, we'd do both. But the key here is we lack the individual flare that United have and those players are, not suprisingly, the players people will pay alot of money for and who therefore have been out of our reach for quite some years now.

 

....

 

So why should we be optimistic ? Well were set at teh back and in the midfield. Neither United nor Chelsea are better than us in those areas, what we lack as aleraqdy said are the flair gamebreakers, and this summer is the summer when we actually get chance to make some of those signings.

 

It's a little catch 22 I think.

 

Our defence is strong not because of the individuals (As good as they are) but because we defend as a team and have a very solid unit.

 

The test is how we open up. I don't think we need to just be more clinical, I think we need to create more chances aswell. A lot of the time our "chances" are shots from outside the box or only half chances. I would only define something as a chance if it was where you would expect the player to score 7/8 times out of 10.

 

I think our style of play has to progress and we have to be more aggressive, only time will tell if this comes at the defences expense. But I'd happily see us keep fewer clean sheets and lose the odd game if it meant we won more in the long run. 1 win and 1 defeat is better than 2 draws. I said it earlier in the season, but Rafa needs to take more risks and not worry so much about losing all the time.

 

If we carry on with our current tactics then we need a really clinical striker. Crouch and Kuyt would thrive in a more attacking team in my opinion. The trouble they have is that there is more pressure on them to score if they're only getting a few chances per game.

[Stu Monty]

If that's aimed at me, you're wrong. On the specific point, I was agreeing that the forum/threads on this topic in general make for depressing reading. However, you just go ahead and be rude all you like.

 

As for the short cut point, I believe we need to sign players simply to get into the race. We've slowly been allowed to fall further and further behind for well over a decade until we've now reached the point where we will only catch up if we bring the quality in wholesale.

 

As for how I'd feel if we signed "Big Names X, Y & Z", well, I'd clearly feel excited by the potential for better and more successful football. However, I would still have my doubts about our ability to go straight outr and win the league. They'd need time to bed in and adapt to both the club and English football. However, I do think they'd make us genuine contenders - and that's what I want. I'm sick of not even being also-rans.Beyond this summer, I would want and expect us to spend within our means. However, I would also expect our means to be dramatically increased.

 

My concerns are that, as things stand, our squad bears comparison with United's even less favourably and the imperative to strengthen it is even greater than it was a couple of days ago. Ordinarily I'd have been fine about that. However, Rafa's misgivings in the press have made me very worried that he won't get the backing he needs to level required.

 

Who have we fallen behind? Have we fallen behind double-winning, unbeatable Arsenal over the past decade? Because if not then surely that would mean that this idea of 'falling behind' actually doesn't exist as teams that are 'the target' rise and fall?