Thiago Alcantara

[magicrat]

I think he slows us up in midfield when our whole game is about high tempo and quick incisive passing. Not sure we need the midfield general type. He's a superb footballer so can only hope we find a way to get the best from him

[Herp McDerp]

He's a top class player, he'll be just fine in the long run. I'm sure a player of his ability will have zero issues upping the tempo if required. Poor bastard just so happened to join a team that's imploding in spectacular fashion, bet he wishes he stayed at Bayern now.

[Brownie]

5 minutes ago, magicrat said:

I think he slows us up in midfield when our whole game is about high tempo and quick incisive passing. Not sure we need the midfield general type. He's a superb footballer so can only hope we find a way to get the best from him

I've heard this a few times now and I'm bewildered by it. I don't know where this quick and incisive midfield, that we seem to think we had, comes from.

[Herp McDerp]

2 hours ago, ZonkoVille77 said:

Anyone else struggling to masturbate to this thread?

 

 

[Brownie]

If he played that pass to Sadio or Mo they'd run into the defender and after the game everyone would say Thiago slows us down and is shit.

[magicrat]

2 minutes ago, Brownie said:

I've heard this a few times now and I'm bewildered by it. I don't know where this quick and incisive midfield, that we seem to think we had, comes from.

We didn't have one ,I didn't say we did , we played a lot of pinpoint long crossfield balls to the flanks and didn't try to play it around too much in the middle of the park .

[Brownie]

1 minute ago, magicrat said:

We didn't have one ,I didn't say we did , we played a lot of pinpoint long crossfield balls to the flanks and didn't try to play it around too much in the middle of the park .

"Our whole game is about...quick incisive passing". 

 

I don't think our game is about that at all, certainly not from the midfielders anyway. Our mids are predominantly there to close spaces, press, win the ball back and then get it to the full backs and front 3.

 

They've been really good at that for the last few years as a unit.

 

Our midfielders don't really do assists.

[ManéMan]

2 minutes ago, Brownie said:

If he played that pass to Sadio or Mo they'd run into the defender and after the game everyone would say Thiago slows us down and is shit.

Yes our front three are wasteful but normally in any given game against shit opposition we create chance after chance, because the midfield suffocate them through their constant chasing and closing. That hasn't happened in recent games and we're barely creating half chances as a result.

 

I can't recall a time when we've looked so devoid of creativity. In the past when we've drawn or lost silly games it was usually down to extreme profligacy and the keeper playing a blinder. 

[magicrat]

1 minute ago, Brownie said:

"Our whole game is about...quick incisive passing". 

 

I don't think our game is about that at all, certainly not from the midfielders anyway. Our mids are predominantly there to close spaces, press, win the ball back and then get it to the full backs and front 3.

 

They've been really good at that for the last few years as a unit.

 

Our midfielders don't really do assists.

I suppose what it boils down to is whether Thiago fits into that unit. He isn't a natural at the pressing game and is picking up too many stupid bookings and he hasn't provided assists yet. 

[joe_fishfish]

26 minutes ago, magicrat said:

I think he slows us up in midfield when our whole game is about high tempo and quick incisive passing. Not sure we need the midfield general type. He's a superb footballer so can only hope we find a way to get the best from him

If you reckon Thiago slows us up in midfield you must fucking despise Wijnaldum.

[3 Stacks]

20 minutes ago, ManéMan said:

Yes our front three are wasteful but normally in any given game against shit opposition we create chance after chance, because the midfield suffocate them through their constant chasing and closing. That hasn't happened in recent games and we're barely creating half chances as a result.

 

I can't recall a time when we've looked so devoid of creativity. In the past when we've drawn or lost silly games it was usually down to extreme profligacy and the keeper playing a blinder. 

But what does that have to do with Thiago? If there's one thing he's doing really well it's pressing and winning the ball high up the pitch as well as anybody. The tackling beyond that hasn't been good, but he's certainly chasing and closing near the final third effectively.

[3 Stacks]

4 minutes ago, joe_fishfish said:

If you reckon Thiago slows us up in midfield you must fucking despise Wijnaldum.

Yeah, Wijnaldum has his strengths but man does he love taking about a billion touches.

[Brownie]

I absolutely love Gini but it's a fact that he loves to hold the ball for ages before passing it, he gets no assists and has no goal threat.

 

When he plays for Holland he gets forward and is a goal threat.

 

Dave has mentioned that in his match reports loads of times. Gini is capable of doing more than he does for us, but it's not the role of the number 8 in this team.

[ManéMan]

2 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

But what does that have to do with Thiago? If there's one thing he's doing really well at the moment it's trying to win the ball high up the pitch. He's pressing and winning the ball high up the pitch as well as anybody. The tackling beyond that hasn't been good, but he's certainly chasing and closing near the final third effectively.

Not really seeing that to be honest, opposition players are going past him as if he isn't there. Contrary to what you may think I have actually seen him play previously and acknowledge that he was surprisingly good for Bayern in winning the ball back etc., but that doesn't appear to be happening here. It seems all a bit too quick for him, hence him lunging into ridiculous tackles. People were lauding him after his debut against Chelsea who were already a beaten side, but he came on and nearly let them back into it with a daft penalty. Little did we know that was a sign of things to come.

 

I'm still hoping he proves me wrong and won't give up on him until Fabinho and Henderson are alongside him. Having to play alongside Milner has to be a big mitigating factor as well.

[3 Stacks]

9 minutes ago, ManéMan said:

Not really seeing that to be honest, opposition players are going past him as if he isn't there. Contrary to what you may think I have actually seen him play previously and acknowledge that he was surprisingly good for Bayern in winning the ball back etc., but that doesn't appear to be happening here. It seems all a bit too quick for him, hence him lunging into ridiculous tackles. People were lauding him after his debut against Chelsea who were already a beaten side, but he came on and nearly let them back into it with a daft penalty. Little did we know that was a sign of things to come.

 

I'm still hoping he proves me wrong and won't give up on him until Fabinho and Henderson are alongside him. Having to play alongside Milner has to be a big mitigating factor as well.

That's just not true. He's averaging more tackles and interceptions than any of our midfielders. And if he's not winning the ball, he's fouling. Certainly, some of the tackling has been too ambitious, and most of that has been in defensive phases, but in terms of pressing, he's been very good.

[easytoslip]

18 hours ago, dockers_strike said:

Yep agree. It was a game that swung around a bit. They got their pen when we finally seemed to be getting on top. I dont know how that tit Doyle on the Echo blames Alli for the first goal, he did brilliantly to block Foden's(?) shot but Gun Dog One was left unmarked for the tap in. That could have happened even if van Dijk, Matip or Gomez had been on the pitch.

 

Mo's pen got us back into the game and we seemed to be gaining the upper hand again when Alli gives them 2 goals in a couple of minutes. There was little hope of a way back after that.

 

And Foden's goal just re emphasised what Ive been saying about us, we dont take enough shots on goal. Foden bought a ticket in the raffle and the rest is as they say.

It's frustrating to see nobody prepared to have a go, the amount of times you see someone with the ball on the edge of the area and a chance to shoot, you shout have a go, but no it's one touch to many or a pass and the chance is gone. 

Surely they're not coached for this? Every player is capable of a shot from range, or should be, its puzzling. 

Even the more, up market papers as they say, are reporting Rampant City which wasn't the case in my view until the end. 

Just fuckin' shoot, even a half chance, what's to lose? Apart from the game if you don't have a go now and again. 

[Brownie]

27 minutes ago, ManéMan said:

Yes our front three are wasteful but normally in any given game against shit opposition we create chance after chance, because the midfield suffocate them through their constant chasing and closing. That hasn't happened in recent games and we're barely creating half chances as a result.

 

I can't recall a time when we've looked so devoid of creativity. In the past when we've drawn or lost silly games it was usually down to extreme profligacy and the keeper playing a blinder. 

Last season we averaged 5.9 shots on target a game. So far this season it's 5.5.

 

We're playing no different.

[TheHowieLama]

50 minutes ago, Brownie said:

 

Our midfielders don't really do assists.

Or golas.

[ManéMan]

22 minutes ago, Brownie said:

Last season we averaged 5.9 shots on target a game. So far this season it's 5.5.

 

We're playing no different.

Yeah apart from being nigh on invincible to showing relegation form, we're playing no different.

[Brownie]

4 minutes ago, ManéMan said:

Yeah apart from being nigh on invincible to showing relegation form, we're playing no different.

Results vs performance isn't it?

 

You said that we normally create loads of chances compared to this run we're on now but the stats would suggest that's not true.

[ManéMan]

46 minutes ago, Brownie said:

Results vs performance isn't it?

 

You said that we normally create loads of chances compared to this run we're on now but the stats would suggest that's not true.

So we're performing the same now as we was when we wrapped up the league by Christmas last season?

You should try watching the games rather than the excel sheets.

[Brownie]

22 minutes ago, ManéMan said:

So we're performing the same now as we was when we wrapped up the league by Christmas last season?

You should try watching the games rather than the excel sheets.

No, there's a massive disparity and that's from our forward players just not doing what they usually do, i.e. creating and scoring goals.

 

They are usually clinical in the final third, now they're massively wasteful and that leads to shit results.

 

But we are still getting to the final third as much as last season, in fact it's more. And we're having roughly the same amount of shots in games as we did last season, that's just a fact.

 

When I say "playing no different" i'm referring to the style in which we play. We're no slower, or faster, we're just fucking appalling in the final third.

[TheHowieLama]

5 minutes ago, Brownie said:

the final third.

There is no question teams have approached us differently though.

[Brownie]

2 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

There is no question teams have approached us differently though.

What in terms of sitting deeper and having more men behind the ball?

[TheHowieLama]

1 minute ago, Brownie said:

What in terms of sitting deeper and having more men behind the ball?

Yip