American Politics

[SasaS]

14 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Bloomberg shit the bed -- now there is a lot of noise about Cuomo.

I don't get it, how is he the hero in this? It happened on his watch.

[TheHowieLama]

15 minutes ago, SasaS said:

I don't get it, how is he the hero in this? It happened on his watch.

Not sure what you mean -- people are impressed by his handling of the crisis.

[SasaS]

10 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Not sure what you mean -- people are impressed by his handling of the crisis.

But that's what I don't understand - why? Isn't the situation worst in the state of New York? I have not been following it closely, more focused on Europe, shouldn't the state authorities be seen as responsible or culpable in what is going on?

[Red Phoenix]

54 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Love these anti-capitalists, when you click on their website, first thing they offer you is to buy their merch, then to donate, then to work for them for free.

 

There was some guy you linked to some time ago who asks for donations to show you his video rants, you click then you free content. Literally nothing on his site was free.

 

If they are the future, I think the future of capitalism is pretty safe.

 

Wow, even the US Youth Climate Strike are up to no good if they're against uncle Joe. Don't worry they'll probably be backed by Russia within 24 hours if they don't cave, then they can be completely ignored.

[TheHowieLama]

11 minutes ago, SasaS said:

But that's what I don't understand - why? Isn't the situation worst in the state of New York? I have not been following it closely, more focused on Europe, shouldn't the state authorities be seen as responsible or culpable in what is going on?

Culpable for a global pandemic? No, of course not. 

Cuomo and DiBlasio took early, decisive action while the feds were all over the media downplaying the situation.

 

 

[SasaS]

9 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

Wow, even the US Youth Climate Strike are up to no good if they're against uncle Joe. Don't worry they'll probably be backed by Russia within 24 hours if they don't cave, then they can be completely ignored.

Sorry, it wasn't meant as a Biden non Biden thing, I don't know who they are and clicked through to see their web site and it was all immediately buy, donate, volunteer which made me remembered that other guy (from the Young Turks?) you also linked who was like, pay up if you want to hear my thoughts.

I am sure that the Youth, who ever they are, are a sound bunch of young anti-capitalists.

[SasaS]

2 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Culpable for a global pandemic? No, of course not. 

Cuomo and DiBlasio took early, decisive action while the feds were all over the media downplaying the situation.

 

Culpable of how they handle the global pandemic locally, as most other governments round the workd seem to be. 

 

They seem to have had about twice as many deaths than Italy in half the time, adjusted for population, so I thought New York was a major fuck-up by the authorities, but you are much closer to what is actually going on and as I said I am not following NY that closely so don't know who was supposed to prevent this, as in who has what powers in health care in NY. 

[Red Phoenix]

29 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Sorry, it wasn't meant as a Biden non Biden thing, I don't know who they are and clicked through to see their web site and it was all immediately buy, donate, volunteer which made me remembered that other guy (from the Young Turks?) you also linked who was like, pay up if you want to hear my thoughts.

I am sure that the Youth, who ever they are, are a sound bunch of young anti-capitalists.

 

That might be Jordan Chariton and Status Coup. Have just checked and they do behind the scenes videos to help raise money, don't see the problem with that. They still release daily videos that are free to watch on their youtube channel and have a website that's free to use. It's not like it's a paywall news outlet, and I'd rather see more reporters doing that than be at news corps where they're worried about losing their jobs if they say what's on their minds.

 

edit : yeah I checked again and they have member videos at the top of their page. There's still most of the content on the site that's free to access though, along with their youtube channel.

[TheHowieLama]

34 minutes ago, SasaS said:

I thought New York was a major fuck-up by the authorities

There are a couple of articles that deal with the timeline and the lack of cohesion between states and Feds - this excerpt gives a pretty good insight 

 

March 7

A state of emergency was declared in New York after total confirmed cases rose to 76 and reached 89 later in the day.

Cuomo said the declaration allowed for the government to help local health departments that "are very stressed."

March 8

The total number of confirmed cases in New York reached 105, and Cuomo urged those who could, to work from home.

Cuomo also criticized the federal government's response, saying, "We mobilized quickly, but the federal government has been slow off the mark and they continue to be slow. That's unacceptable -- we need them to approve these private labs today so we can stay ahead of this evolving situation."

Trump pushed back on the criticism.

"We have a perfectly coordinated and fine-tuned plan at the White House for our attack on CoronaVirus," he tweeted. "We moved VERY early to close borders to certain areas, which was a Godsend. V.P. is doing a great job. The Fake News Media is doing everything possible to make us look bad. Sad!"

March 9

New York reported 142 confirmed cases, according to Cuomo.

He continued to urge the federal government to approve testing in the state. At the time, Northwell Health, the state's largest health care provider, was completing 75 to 80 samples of manual testing per day, but automated testing on thousands of samples per day still lacked federal approval.

Trump tweeted fatality rates about the flu, seemingly comparing the two diseases. Health experts have noted that coronavirus is not like the flu.

"So last year 37,000 Americans died from the common Flu. It averages between 27,000 and 70,000 per year. Nothing is shut down, life & economy go on," Trump wrote. "At this moment, there are 546 confirmed cases of CoronaVirus with 22 deaths. Think about that!"

That same day, the Trump administration announced it was giving $699,000 to a company that's developing a testing system that could administer 1,000 tests per day, each producing a result in about three hours.

March 10

New York reported 173 confirmed cases, according to Cuomo.

With the majority still in Westchester County in New Rochelle, Cuomo closed down the schools, houses of worship and large gatherings within a mile radius of the city from March 12 to March 25.

"As the number of positive cases rises, I am urging all New Yorkers to remember the bottom line: We talk about all this stuff to keep the public informed -- not to incite fear -- and if you are not a member of the vulnerable population then there is no reason for excess anxiety," Cuomo said.

Trump, however, struck a more optimistic tone: "It hit the world, and we're prepared and we're doing a great job with it, and it will go away, stay calm, it will go away."

[Red Phoenix]

3 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

Bloomberg shit the bed -- now there is a lot of noise about Cuomo.

I know next to nothing about cun...Cuomo but I'll probably start angrily gathering negative articles about him shortly and bookmarking them incase he dares to challenge Lord Donald later in the year.

[TheHowieLama]

13 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

I know next to nothing about cun...Cuomo 

Start with his dad, Mario Cuomo -- interesting fella. He passed up the chance to be the presidential Dem nominee a couple of times which is why I don't think there is much of a chance.

[TheHowieLama]

2 hours ago, SasaS said:

 

They seem to have had about twice as many deaths than Italy in half the time, adjusted for population

Not sure how you are doing the adjusting - the death rate in Italy and Spain per capita is like five or six times that of the US.

[cloggypop]

US politics is blooming bonkers

 

https://theintercept.com/2020/04/10/bloomberg-hawkfish-biden-campaign/

[SasaS]

9 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

There are a couple of articles that deal with the timeline and the lack of cohesion between states and Feds - this excerpt gives a pretty good insight 

 

March 7

A state of emergency was declared in New York after total confirmed cases rose to 76 and reached 89 later in the day.

Cuomo said the declaration allowed for the government to help local health departments that "are very stressed."

March 8

The total number of confirmed cases in New York reached 105, and Cuomo urged those who could, to work from home.

Cuomo also criticized the federal government's response, saying, "We mobilized quickly, but the federal government has been slow off the mark and they continue to be slow. That's unacceptable -- we need them to approve these private labs today so we can stay ahead of this evolving situation."

Trump pushed back on the criticism.

"We have a perfectly coordinated and fine-tuned plan at the White House for our attack on CoronaVirus," he tweeted. "We moved VERY early to close borders to certain areas, which was a Godsend. V.P. is doing a great job. The Fake News Media is doing everything possible to make us look bad. Sad!"

March 9

New York reported 142 confirmed cases, according to Cuomo.

He continued to urge the federal government to approve testing in the state. At the time, Northwell Health, the state's largest health care provider, was completing 75 to 80 samples of manual testing per day, but automated testing on thousands of samples per day still lacked federal approval.

Trump tweeted fatality rates about the flu, seemingly comparing the two diseases. Health experts have noted that coronavirus is not like the flu.

"So last year 37,000 Americans died from the common Flu. It averages between 27,000 and 70,000 per year. Nothing is shut down, life & economy go on," Trump wrote. "At this moment, there are 546 confirmed cases of CoronaVirus with 22 deaths. Think about that!"

That same day, the Trump administration announced it was giving $699,000 to a company that's developing a testing system that could administer 1,000 tests per day, each producing a result in about three hours.

March 10

New York reported 173 confirmed cases, according to Cuomo.

With the majority still in Westchester County in New Rochelle, Cuomo closed down the schools, houses of worship and large gatherings within a mile radius of the city from March 12 to March 25.

"As the number of positive cases rises, I am urging all New Yorkers to remember the bottom line: We talk about all this stuff to keep the public informed -- not to incite fear -- and if you are not a member of the vulnerable population then there is no reason for excess anxiety," Cuomo said.

Trump, however, struck a more optimistic tone: "It hit the world, and we're prepared and we're doing a great job with it, and it will go away, stay calm, it will go away."

Thanks for the timeline, however, we will probably have to wait for it all to be over to see who could have done what and when. As I said, I was baffled by the reports from New York where on one hand they reported situation was and absolute disaster with even more deaths than officially reported and simultaneous praise for Cuomo, so my first instinct was to think he might be one of those politicians who are great communicators so they talk the talk and look good on TV, but when you look at the results...

 

8 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

Not sure how you are doing the adjusting - the death rate in Italy and Spain per capita is like five or six times that of the US.

Why the US? We were always talking about the state of New York and how Cuomo handled the situation. 

[TheHowieLama]

3 hours ago, SasaS said:

Why the US? We were always talking about the state of New York and how Cuomo handled the situation. 

Well, then we should compare to a similar size/population as NYC.

 

Lombardy region in Italy has roughly the same population (maybe 1 mil more) - over 10k deaths there almost double that of NYC.

 

If you do all on New York state there are twice as many people as Lombardy and 2k less deaths.

 

 

[SasaS]

3 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Well, then we should compare to a similar size/population as NYC.

 

Lombardy region in Italy has roughly the same population (maybe 1 mil more) - over 10k deaths there almost double that of NYC.

 

If you do all on New York state there are twice as many people as Lombardy and 2k less deaths.

 

True, but I don't know what the difference in powers between the state of New York and Lombardy is, in the context of the USA vs. Italy, how comparable it is. Without researching it, I am naturally inclined to compare the NY state to the whole of Italy, since I perceive the US to be much more decentralized.

[TheHowieLama]

5 minutes ago, SasaS said:

True, but I don't know what the difference in powers between the state of New York and Lombardy is, in the context of the USA vs. Italy, how comparable it is. Without researching it, I am naturally inclined to compare the NY state to the whole of Italy, since I perceive the US to be much more decentralized.

Population density throws that out of wack.

 

The number to compare would be deaths divided by cases -- that gives a better understanding of treatment success.

 

In New York state that would be about 4.5% - it is three times that in Italy.

[SasaS]

3 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Population density throws that out of wack.

 

The number to compare would be deaths divided by cases -- that gives a better understanding of treatment success.

 

In New York state that would be about 4.5% - it is three times that in Italy.

No, I have learnt during all this that is irrelevant, cases are completely unreliable. NY state should probably have between 1.6 and 3.2 million actual cases now, including asymptomatic ones by my calculation (recent Austria and Germany studies showing 0.5% or 0.25% actual death rate) and this is if the current number of deaths proves to be accurate (they are saying it could be double, I don't know, read crazy numbers, but if it is only hospital deaths, it will go up by 50%, from the French example). So it may be as high as 6 million, and over a relatively short time and after the lessons from Italy and the rest of Europe have been learnt.

What I don't know is if something could have been done differently on the NY state level, or is this just the case of look like you are in some kind of control and hope for the best once is explodes, because there is not much you can do anymore.

[TheHowieLama]

6 minutes ago, SasaS said:

No, I have learnt during all this that is irrelevant, cases are completely unreliable.

So your take is that the German and Austrian figures are correct but NY state numbers are off by a factor of 10?

[SasaS]

44 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

So your take is that the German and Austrian figures are correct but NY state numbers are off by a factor of 10?

Not just the numbers, but studies when they tested randomly, Germans even tested for antibodies. It showed multiples of 200 or 400 on the number of deaths. It confirmed what we more or less knew that the death rate is 0.5 to 0.25 (see Iceland which tested 10% of the total population).

In NY state the ratio of tests to positives is 3:1 which is clearly showing they are registering only a fraction of cases (Italy had this at the peak, it is over 10:1 now when they test much more).

And German and Austrian figures are the closest to the number of actual cases and even they admit it is probably 1 in 4.

 

[TheHowieLama]

15 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Not just the numbers, but studies when they tested randomly,

 

Availability of tests is one of the biggest arguments against the Feds from the individual states.

I think NY was the first state to go to private companies to try to get more as the Feds were not.

[SasaS]

Just now, TheHowieLama said:

Availability of tests is one of the biggest arguments against the Feds from the individual states.

I think NY was the first state to go to private companies to try to get more as the Feds were not.

Yes, I know it's a contentious issue everywhere, for various reasons. 

[Red Phoenix]

Jordan Chariton (who I was posting about a couple of nights ago further up this page) has it now too, hopefully he starts recovering shortly.

 

 

[Red Phoenix]

 

[Red Phoenix]

"Bernie needs to do something about his supporters and their online abuse."

 

 

This should hit home the fact that you can never control all of your supporters if you're running to be leader of a country. Corbyn and Sanders shouldn't have had that shit thrown at them and Biden shouldn't now (and I think Briahna is pointing out the futility of this above).

 

Especially when opposition can just set up fake accounts and pretend they're real supporters then sling abuse around. Sanders did suggest this might be happening too at one point, and it will surely be happening on some level.