Liverpool 2 West Brom 3 (Jan 27 2018)

[tlw content]

 
After the Swansea defeat I was annoyed and frustrated more than anything else. After this loss, my biggest feeling is worry. It's only two games, but even so, it just feels like things might be getting away from us, just like they did this time last year. Losing to West Brom is bad enough, but the way we lost has to have set massive alarm bells ringing off for Klopp. 
 
I’m trying not to panic because I said earlier in the season that the way the team responded to the loss at Spurs means they deserve the benefit of the doubt the next time they let themselves down. An impressive 18 game unbeaten run means they deserve some slack. Two bad results does not undo all the progress we’ve seen this season and I don’t want to be a massive shithouse and jump overboard at the first sign of trouble, but I’d be lying if I said my confidence hasn’t been shaken by the events of this past week. 
 
Not so much the Swansea game as that was just one of those things that can happen to anyone. They wanted to defend for their lives and play for a goalless draw, but they took advantage of a set-piece and then rode their luck to hold on for a win. We didn’t play well but we didn't get any of the breaks in that game either. You could argue it was unlucky. 
 
This defeat was much worse because we did get virtually all of the breaks and still lost. Deservedly. West Brom didn’t just sit back and they were good value for their win. It wasn't a park the bus smash and grab. They actually looked like they’d score every time they got anywhere near our box. It was a chastening experience and we looked an absolute shambles. 
 
Klopp has occasionally taken liberties with his team selections in the cup competitions but you can’t accuse him of not taking this one seriously. He picked more or less his strongest team, which makes the defeat even more alarming really as we can’t even use the ‘weakened side’ excuse. We threw the best we had at the team that is second from bottom in the table, and we came up short. 
 
What went wrong? I don’t even know. The easiest thing is to say everything. Not much went right, that’s for sure. The forwards aren’t at their best right now, but they weren't that bad though and did put two goals on the board, which should be enough to win. Defensively we were a joke and the midfield didn’t help out at either end of the pitch. It was just a mess. I’d like to think that Klopp knows what the problems are and how to fix them, but I suspect he was just as fucking perplexed at what went on as the rest of us were. 
 
Talk about the loss of Coutinho all you like, and clearly that hasn’t helped, but it’s much more than that. It wasn’t the absence of Coutinho that allowed West Brom to score three times in the first half. Four if you count the one that we were fortunate to see ruled out by the video ref. I’ll get to that whole farcical situation in due course though, as there’s a lot I want to say about it. 

 

 

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[sir roger]

Great report Dave , loving Barry's arse being offside.

 

In amongst a load of worries , I think we need a bit more stability in the team going forward,particularly defensively. I read on the BBC last night that in the first 24 league games last season we made 39 changes and this season we have made 98 changes. Obviously there is Europe this season , but averaging 4 changes a game seems a lot.

 

Putting the woes of the past week to one side, results have generally been good & hopefully the rotation has kept players relatively fit so I would be looking to nail down a settled back 4 other than injuries. I would go Karius, Gomez, Lovren , VvD, Robertson. Defenders particularly need to build partnerships & with VvD now on board I think it's time to get it sorted.

[Trumo]

With regards to the small amount of stoppage time in the first half, that's another area where a bit more clarity is required. I think the referee stopped the watch each time VAR was used so the only real time to be added on was for those injury stoppages. Like I said, more clarity is required so everybody knows what is going on.

[Jenson]

Totally agree that Mig should never have been put in goal, but also Can should not be getting picked at all now, never mind being captain, if as it seems he's already decided to fuck off to Juventus.

[Red_or_Dead]

Mingolet looked like he had PTSD from the early moments of the game.

[dockers_strike]

With regards to the small amount of stoppage time in the first half, that's another area where a bit more clarity is required. I think the referee stopped the watch each time VAR was used so the only real time to be added on was for those injury stoppages. Like I said, more clarity is required so everybody knows what is going on.

 

Do not think that is right. The tv clock did not stop for VAR and that only showed 45 + 4 mins added time when the ref blew for the end of the half. The tv clock would have showed 45 + 8 or 9 mins added time if that was the case. As I keep saying though, every major VAR decision was right. What was wrong was the time taken to decide incidents and the crowd not knowing what was happening. That is what they need to sort out.

[Pidge]

Mignolet and the two full backs were the selection issues for me. Moreno rusty, but so was TAA, only having playing one game and a short sub appearance since the game he scored in.

[The Guest]

We do get into these ruts a few times a season. A lot of people on here like to blame individuals for errors but for me they come as a by product of the tactical set up. Usually when we score early or a team plays an open game we rip them to shreds. Every so often a team plays negatively and shuts the space off inside and we really struggle badly to create and then that starts a rut of poor performances. I think the Swansea game has rattled our attack and has led to this game. This obviously wasn’t a classic case here as West Brom actually attacked us but after they got their goals and needed to defend they had it easy because we haven’t got a clue what to do.

 

Dave mentions in the report players playing passes behind players. For me it’s because our tactical set up always gives the players 2 or 3 easy outs and they’re more than happy oblige because the difficult pass usually has two players on him. We can’t switch the play quickly enough because we don’t have enough players wide. The extra players are standing in a line across the centre of the pitch. The 3 midfielders all pass it to each other meaning it’s 2 or 3 passes to switch the play and then because it’s so slow the opposition just shuffle over.

 

It baffles me that Klopp can’t see it. This game in particular the full backs just refused to overlap which then made the situation even worse. I don’t know if this is something Klopp has specifically told them to not do as it was both of them. You don’t need to be 6ft 5 centre forward if the wide player can’t get to the byline and smash it across goal. You do need a 6ft 5 centre forward if the wide player wants to cross balls from 20+ yards from the byline.

 

We can all suck each other’s cocks about how many goals Salah has scored but in reality the team is struggling because of a lack of width and we are out of the two domestic cups in games we should have won and lost to Swansea leaving us ina precarious position in the league. In my opinion Salah scores his goals whatever wing he’s on.

[Hades]

Top report Dave. Agree on Van Dijk, almost tempted to start the "play him as a DM" shout.

[Red74]

The Swansea manager worked us out the other week and told everyone the blueprint when he was using the London traffic example.

 

Salah & Mane cant go outside the fullbacks due to being so one footed and always have to check their runs to come inside. Therefore, park 5 men across the 18 yard line and hold it. Have your midfielders dropping back to close down all space in between as they know we haven't got a proper striker who has the nous to run in behind for any through balls and a pathetic midfield who cant score.

 

Bide your time and we run out of steam after 20 minutes and you can get out of your half to get a corner / free kick and the panic will soon set in.

 

All Klopp's got to do to combat this is switch Salah and Mane to their natural side, have them getting the old chalk on the boots and get in behind the full backs and get in that way. He can be too stubborn in staying with the same tactics week in week out and its been proven since he's been here that teams can work us out pretty quick yet he takes to long to address it.

 

We need to freshen things up, have a rejig of our tactics and lets get on another 18 game unbeaten run.

[dockers_strike]

The swansea manager did not work us out. He just used a different phrase to parking the bus. Teams have good spells and bad spells. If you have ambitions to be a good team your bad spells are generally a lot shorter than your good ones. Hence the 2 defeats in 20. I do not think anyone is not concerned at the latest defeat. Hysterical fannies will always chuck the toys out with any loss. We looked a shambles at the back virtually from the kick off. Mignolet was the wosrt I have ever seen him almost like 2 fingers up to Klopp. He was lucky to get away with that ruled out goal. I guess the writing was on the wall with Can but I am surprised Klopp is still playing him as it is all confirmed he is running down his contract. But for all the shambolic performance we would have got a draw if Bobby had done the business from 12 yards. Some people might not like the fact the Huddersfield game is upon us so quick but the players and manager have to view it as getting back on the horse again. A game that should not be tough is now very tough but the players have to give their all and make sure they do not lose under any circumstances. The 3 points would be very welcome though.

[Anubis]

Good report, Dave. I didn't see the game, but based on your description I share your concerns and think we really ought to be looking to bolster the team this window.

 

As for VAR, if they want the fans to know what is happening they need to go down the route of American Football, where the referees' conversation is broadcast to the stadium. At least then everyone knows what they are looking at and what the decision is.

[DaveTucker]

It's difficult not to worry when we've seen us hit these sudden slumps so many times before. There are numerous parallels with this time last season:-

 

1. Beat Man City and send the fanbase into euphoria.

2. Lose a key attacker and fail to replace him. (Albeit a temporary loss last season)

3. Labour to a 3rd round FA cup win against a team of losers ;-).

4. Lose in FA Cup 4th round at Anfield.

 

Hopefully it ends there and this becomes a blip rather than a slump.

 

I'm also not OK with not spending in January. Admittedly I'm hypocritical as we lauded Klopp's patience when we eventually signed Van Dyke and rightly so but I still think we could've signed another CB. Maguire for instance would have been relatively cheap and could have done a job. Depending on performance levels then he could either have played with Van Dyke or provide a useful option and we could have easily offloaded someone else to make up the cash.

 

My concern is that we won't compromise on targets and would prefer to wait until the summer. Understandable to a degree but if we don't get top 4 as the squad is thin then we'll end up being forced into looking at plan Cs let alone plan Bs as the top players won't be interested.   

[dave u]

Interested to know people's thoughts on the third goal and why the two offsides in the build up were not picked up when they looked at the video.

[The Guest]

For some strange reason the officials have become obsessed with not flagging until a player has touched the ball. I don’t know why this ever became a thing. It’s never made sense to me. You hear commentators mention it all the time.

 

It’s so inconsistent as well and none of these arse holes commentating ever highlight it. Sometimes the ball gets nowhere near the player but it was clearly meant for them and the flag goes straight up and then other times, sometimes literally 5 mins later, a player is allowed to sprint 40/50 yards to a ball they are clearly going to get to first and then the flag goes up and the commentator then patronises you with the same shite explanation as if he’s talking to somebody who’s never watched football before explaining what’s happened.

 

I used to think it’s only a matter of time before it leads to an injury due to sprinting unnecessarily or a tackle going in that could have been prevented had they just put the flag. Now though we are getting incidents where the defender has to head it because he can’t know for certain if the player is offside. He’s clearly still active though because the defender is having to take him into account.

 

It’s daft but it won’t be sorted unless the people in the commentary box start picking up on it. The only 2 that are likely to actually be intelligent enough to spot it are Carragher and Neville.

[aws]

Interested to know people's thoughts on the third goal and why the two offsides in the build up were not picked up when they looked at the video.

They restrict themselves to the last "phase" of play maybe? Otherwise they might have to go back to the last break in play looking out for things I suppose and that would be egregious.

[sir roger]

I assumed the ref asked Marriner ( Allegedly 200 miles away although it was never mentioned ) to check the guy who crossed the ball and that's all they looked at. They were probably already spooked by the other issues during the first half & not wanting to add to them if they could avoid it.

[DaveT]

Interested to know people's thoughts on the third goal and why the two offsides in the build up were not picked up when they looked at the video.

Everyone in the Main Stand round me went nuts, as we all thought Dawson was offside, but seeing the replay, TAA is so slow coming out,he's just on. As for the earlier offsides, I'm guessing they just didn't wind the replay back long enough. Doesn't surprise me that the lino didn't pick them up - watch MotD any given week, and there's a litany of plainly wrong decisions, including plenty of offsides. One of Leicester's goals on Saturday was just so clearly offside, even in real time, that even the dopey commentary team picked it up.  I think VAR must be retained - I'd be happy for a match to last all night if it meant it wasn't decided by more awful decision-making. BUT - they have to get smarter using it. Mind you, asking Craig Pawson to be both decisive and correct is asking a lot.

[DaveT]

If Sturridge is off to West Brom, we should be asking for Jay Rodriguez in return - looking like the player he was when he got in the England team (and he wouldn't be coming direct from Southampton!). We should also be getting them to send us Ben Foster - quite a novelty on Saturday, watching a keeper actually making saves!

[sir roger]

TAA needs to work on that Dave T , as he was ambling out & within the width of Barry's backside from keeping him onside for the disallowed goal as well.

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

If Sturridge is off to West Brom, we should be asking for Jay Rodriguez in return - looking like the player he was when he got in the England team (and he wouldn't be coming direct from Southampton!). We should also be getting them to send us Ben Foster - quite a novelty on Saturday, watching a keeper actually making saves!

Foster also kept catching crosses with his hands. I had no idea keepers were allowed to do that.

[DaveT]

Having now watched the game again, some other comments...... West Brom were well worth their win, our whole midfield just went through the motions and Moreno's positional sense was back to its worst.

Do referees sometimes think - 'I know what the rules say, but I just can't be arsed'? Cases in point - throw-ins...... Nyom grabbed at least 10 yards for the throw that ultimately led to their third goal.......6 second rule - Foster took 20 seconds on at least two occasions and an averag of about 15 seconds (only goalie I can remember being penalised for this in recent times? Guess who).

Fehgazi committed an awful lunge on Firmino, should have been minimum yellow  - the hapless Pawson didn't even think it was a foul. Refs as bad as him need VAR and every other bit of technology going.

Klopp's no doubt going to make changes for tomorrow night - unfortunately I don't think we have a big enough squad to enable him to drop everyone who needs dropping from Saturday.

[dave u]

TAA needs to work on that Dave T , as he was ambling out & within the width of Barry's backside from keeping him onside for the disallowed goal as well.

 

A good five yards then.

[Trumo]

A good five yards then.

 

Only when he turns the other cheek.

[Mathewbet1]

Their third was definitely offside, in relation to the first phase of play, he was off, then became active as soon as he touched the ball.