Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[sir roger]

1 minute ago, Numero said:

Well, leaving aside whether or not the mural thing is actual bollocks or not, If an independent, or even secondary group look at it and decide its bollocks, then so be it. Having the accused judge whether it’s frivolous or not is just rock bottom, piss-poor lack of standards. 

My point is , are all of these frivolous complaints about Starmer logged, investigate thoroughly and is he questioned about them ? I would seriously doubt it .

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 minute ago, sir roger said:

My point is , are all of these frivolous complaints about Starmer logged, investigate thoroughly and is he questioned about them ? I would seriously doubt it .

No idea. Like I say, he’s reached the top of a profession where ethical and professional integrity is of upmost importance. I’d be surprised if they’re being handwaved away. If they are, he needs seeing to. Just my view. 
 

The complaint against Corbyn was well within the bounds of something that should have been looked at by somebody outside of his office and then judged upon. It’s why he showed such ‘sincere regret’ over his comments. For his office to be like ‘nah, don’t bother’ about it is way beyond okay, to me at least. I honestly wouldn’t accept that in a branch of McDonalds, let alone the Labour Party. 

[sir roger]

Ha ha, is Keir your screensaver.

[Strontium]

44 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Does anyone other than the people who ordered the murders in Tunis and Paris in the early 90s claim that the victims had anything to do with the Munich murders? Or have Israel ever provided credible evidence?

 

No idea, sorry. I presume their intelligence agencies know more than I do.

[Numero Veinticinco]

3 minutes ago, sir roger said:

Ha ha, is Keir your screensaver.

No, but I literally just said that if he is doing the same thing, he should be fucked off. I mean, that’s consistency and a set standard. Am I really having to argue that those accused shouldn’t be the ones to decide on their own cases, anyone, Starmer or Corbyn. How is that... 

 

Huff. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

4 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

No idea, sorry. I presume their intelligence agencies know more than I do.

I'd also presume that the PLO know more than either of us, too. The Israelis say the people they murdered were implicated in the Munich murders; the PLO say they weren't. The response to both could be "well, they would say that, wouldn't they".   I just find it slightly odd that people automatically take the Israelis' word and not the PLO's.  (I also get a bit queasy about how comfortable everybody is with extrajudicial killings.)

[Gnasher]

3 hours ago, Numero said:

Yeah, I think it’s bullshit too. I think it was more likely that he was reinstated because he didn’t break the rules. I say that without actually knowing the details of the rules. It does seem far more sensible than ‘he was bang guilty but there was a conspiracy to reinstate him’. 
 

Honestly, I’ve not really made my mind up on Starmer withdrawing the whip. I think he has shown excellent leadership since the report came out. He reacted fairly, strongly, and with purpose to the report. The report findings were pretty grim, and those not acknowledging or criticising Labour under Corbyn for their and his failings are skewed. However, I’m undecided on this. Part of me thinks that the findings of the report show something serious enough to say Corbyn and his office fucked up badly enough, coupled with his appalling response to that report- especially saying he wasn’t part of the problem and not accepting findings from the report - to have him booted on general principle (though, I fully accept general principle and Labour rules aren’t the same thing). Then another part of me says... well, it did just go through a fuckin’ investigation that reinstated him.
 

It’s clear he wants him out of the way. I can’t argue with that, because he is an incredibly divisive figure, not because of who he is but because he has become some sort of symbol to some. I guess (again) that he has made the decision that temporary tooth pulling pain is better than long term toothache. How well that works out remains to be seen. It’s ballsy as fuck, I’ll give him that. Not sure if it’s fair or smart or anything else. 

I don't think its "ballsy" at all. Its cowardly and shows the leader of the labour party afraid of certain elements in and out of the party.

[Gnasher]

This uniting the party drivel is going well, 

 

 

[Gnasher]

Shes right it's now turned into a fucking shambles,

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/18/labour-party-divided-corbyn-antisemitism

 

 

 

[Gnasher]

 

[Bruce Spanner]

Lefties laughing, and celebrating as some sort of Pyrrhic victory, at the Labour Party’s perceived failings in the age of the most duplicitous, mendacious and utterly contemptible Iteration of the Tories, possibly, ever?

 

I believe were through the looking glass now, Alice.

 

Twitter and  a lack of ability to think critically are going to be the final nail in the coffin of ‘the left’. 
 

Pathetic all round, well done.

[Gnasher]

25 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Lefties laughing, and celebrating as some sort of Pyrrhic victory, at the Labour Party’s perceived failings in the age of the most duplicitous, mendacious and utterly contemptible Iteration of the Tories, possibly, ever?

 

I believe were through the looking glass now, Alice.

 

Twitter and  a lack of ability to think critically are going to be the final nail in the coffin of ‘the left’. 
 

Pathetic all round, well done.

"Lefties laughing?  

 

Where? The mood I've seen is worry and concern. The bottom third in this country are being left behind, the extra 20 pound universal top up is being scrapped, talk of cuts to the minimum wage etc and the Labour party doesn't appear to making a lot of noise for the fight. What are parents with small children worried about rental evictions supposed to do? You believe someone like Margret fucking Hodge gives a fuck about some girl working in a care home on a zero hour contract? What are these people facing major social problems supposed to do? Phone up Marcus Rashford? 

[Bruce Spanner]

7 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

"Lefties laughing?  

 

Where? The mood I've seen is worry and concern. The bottom third in this country are being left behind, the extra 20 pound universal top up is being scrapped, talk of cuts to the minimum wage etc and the Labour party doesn't appear to making a lot of noise for the fight. What are parents with small children worried about rental evictions supposed to do? You believe someone like Margret fucking Hodge gives a fuck about some girl working in a care home on a zero hour contract? What are these people facing major social problems supposed to do? Phone up Marcus Rashford? 

Do we have to do this again?

 

It’s in the thing you just fucking posted! 

[Gnasher]

8 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Do we have to do this again?

 

It’s in the thing you just fucking posted! 

Maybe your definition of lefties is different to mine.

[Bruce Spanner]

2 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Maybe your definition of lefties is different to mine.

[Gnasher]

Scaling back through the truth bombs thrown by established and respected members of the British mainstream media at Jeremy Corbyn my personal fav is the one where Simon Heffer informs potential labour voters that Corbyn would if elected re open Auschwitz,

 

 

 

[Gnasher]

4 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Tiresome cunt.

[Red Phoenix]

But the Tories, but Trump, but this, but that. A lot of the left are just past the point of giving a fuck about Labour's current direction because this is all that happens. Centrists/centre-right/right wingers band together with the elites and the media to stop any meaningful change, then the left become scapegoats if the right win.

 

And the centrists that helped cause so much of this get a free pass apparently.

 

Corbyn was forced out after years of lies and it was clear that democracy in this country had about gone with the levels of crap going on in the last election. But no, it's still not enough. We want Corbyn suspended. Then he gets back in and no, it's still not enough, he can't be accepted into the party properly.

 

Just forget about us working with the establishment and spending years lying, scheming and using propaganda removing your leader, look at the Tories.

 

The general public seem to have the problem with critical thinking too because if they didn't they wouldn't have bought into the shit that brought Corbyn down in the first place. Forget that though, blame the left. And forget that this is exactly in line with what the worst scum in this country want : the left being scapegoated because they threaten the wealth of the rich, and they threaten the elites ability to wage war and profit from it. This is why Corbyn is no longer leader. Not some antisemitism bullshit.

 

At this point a lot of the left might be happy with the entire Labour Party coming crashing down so we can start again from scratch with something else. And I don't blame anyone that thinks like that one bit at this point.

And Starmer supporters can whine and moan for the next few years if it all goes to shit, but if he had to put up with what Corbyn had done they'd soon understand. But he's a Sir, and he is or was a Trilateral member, he's one of theirs. He'll never have to face what Corbyn did and the left knows that.

 

But the Tories! A lot of the youth of this country are left wing aren't they? Didn't one election map show that the country would be red if it was younger people voting only? If so, keep poking that hornet's nest I suppose, and as the years pass maybe the schemes of so many idiot Labour MP's really will come crashing down and we'll have a proper left wing party instead.

[Numero Veinticinco]

8 hours ago, Gnasher said:

I don't think its "ballsy" at all. Its cowardly and shows the leader of the labour party afraid of certain elements in and out of the party.

Interesting. I think letting all this just fester would have been the cowardly thing to do. If he was scared of them he would have placated them. I think it’s brave to stand up to them. They’re making threats, and he inherited a crisis of their making, now they’re pissed off he’s cleaning it up. Maybe RP is right, let the split happen and see how scary the Corbynites really are. 

[Bruce Spanner]

7 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

But the Tories, but Trump, but this, but that. A lot of the left are just past the point of giving a fuck about Labour's current direction because this is all that happens. Centrists/centre-right/right wingers band together with the elites and the media to stop any meaningful change, then the left become scapegoats if the right win.

 

And the centrists that helped cause so much of this get a free pass apparently.

 

Corbyn was forced out after years of lies and it was clear that democracy in this country had about gone with the levels of crap going on in the last election. But no, it's still not enough. We want Corbyn suspended. Then he gets back in and no, it's still not enough, he can't be accepted into the party properly.

 

Just forget about us working with the establishment and spending years lying, scheming and using propaganda removing your leader, look at the Tories.

 

The general public seem to have the problem with critical thinking too because if they didn't they wouldn't have bought into the shit that brought Corbyn down in the first place. Forget that though, blame the left. And forget that this is exactly in line with what the worst scum in this country want : the left being scapegoated because they threaten the wealth of the rich, and they threaten the elites ability to wage war and profit from it. This is why Corbyn is no longer leader. Not some antisemitism bullshit.

 

At this point a lot of the left might be happy with the entire Labour Party coming crashing down so we can start again from scratch with something else. And I don't blame anyone that thinks like that one bit at this point.

And Starmer supporters can whine and moan for the next few years if it all goes to shit, but if he had to put up with what Corbyn had done they'd soon understand. But he's a Sir, and he is or was a Trilateral member, he's one of theirs. He'll never have to face what Corbyn did and the left knows that.

 

But the Tories! A lot of the youth of this country are left wing aren't they? Didn't one election map show that the country would be red if it was younger people voting only? If so, keep poking that hornet's nest I suppose, and as the years pass maybe the schemes of so many idiot Labour MP's really will come crashing down and we'll have a proper left wing party instead.

The critical thinking part would be to recognise the enemy hasn’t changed, only the strategy.

 

‘They’ don’t want a Labour government, it’s bad for business, so ‘they’ll’ do whatever, to whoever, to maintain the hegemony.

 

Breaking that s should be the only objective. 
 

That’s it, that’s thinking critically.

 

No amount of party bullshit should obscure that, but a pretty good fucking job is being done of that.

 

PS Starmers ‘pledges’ aren’t too dissimilar to Corbyn’s, but nobody’s interested as he’s not ‘our man’

 

Fucking grow up.

 

[Section_31]

All these labels piss me off, what the fuck is a 'centrist' anyway? 

 

"Oooh you're a centrist and an enemy of progress."

 

Tell you what a centrist is. Someone who doesn't give a toss about politics and certainly can't be arsed arguing about it, cares about their own job, house and family and couldn't give a fuck about Venezuela. I.e, the vast majority of the population.

 

It doesn't make you a banker, or a fascist, or a cunt. 

 

Oooh look at me I've got a Palestinian flag on my profile and I play songs about Thatcher on my ukulele, I'm a better human being than you. 

 

Fuck, right, off.

[Numero Veinticinco]

As for all this unity stuff, it’s one man. If unity means giving in to one man otherwise his followers leave, then the way to unify the party is to remove the venom. Of course, there’s absolutely no onus of the Corbynite twats to do anything towards unity, just as it wasn’t when he had half a decade to unify they party. It’s always somebody else’s fault. Their version of the left, the ‘support Corbyn or you’re not a lefties’ left, is rotten, it’s Trump-supporter blinkered, and it’s doesn’t represent me. I’m left wing because I believe in left wing policies. My belief in left wing policies doesn’t mean I have to back a career politician who drove Labour into the ground. You’re treating it as if it’s a fucking sports team. Twats. 

 

How the fuck can you unify the party without dealing with the biggest cause of disunity? 

[Red Phoenix]

3 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

The critical thinking part would be to recognise the enemy hasn’t changed, only the strategy.

 

‘They’ don’t want a Labour government, it’s bad for business, so ‘they’ll’ do whatever, to whoever, to maintain the hegemony.

 

Breaking that s should be the only objective. 
 

That’s it, that’s thinking critically.

 

No amount of party bullshit should obscure that, but a pretty good fucking job is being done of that.

 

PS Starmers ‘pledges’ aren’t too dissimilar to Corbyn’s, but nobody’s interested as he’s not ‘our man’

 

Fucking grow up.

 

 

The critical thinking part would be to recognise that Corbyn could be in power now if the centrists and centre-right hadn't helped bring him down, chicken coup Starmer should know that only too well. So maybe for a lot of the left the answer is : fuck the current strategy.

 

Starmer will only be accepted because he offers no meaningful change.

 

And maybe critical thinking is knowing that Starmer's 10 pledges are just some writing with little backing it up. Maybe critical thinking is knowing that a trilateral guy is never going to "support common ownership of rail, mail, energy and water" enough to make that happen if he wins an election. Because that's not want big business wants.

[Red Phoenix]

7 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

All these labels piss me off, what the fuck is a 'centrist' anyway? 

 

"Oooh you're a centrist and an enemy of progress."

 

Tell you what a centrist is. Someone who doesn't give a toss about politics and certainly can't be arsed arguing about it, cares about their own job, house and family and couldn't give a fuck about Venezuela. I.e, the vast majority of the population.

 

It doesn't make you a banker, or a fascist, or a cunt. 

 

Oooh look at me I've got a Palestinian flag on my profile and I play songs about Thatcher on my ukulele, I'm a better human being than you. 

 

Fuck, right, off.

 

What the fuck is a leftist anyway?

 

And centrists can keep not giving a fuck about others countries being destroyed, when refugees and migrants pour into their own countries though and the right takes power maybe they can fuck right off too.

[sir roger]

Corbyn made more effort in four years to unite the party than all of the other leaders had in the previous 33 years.Not sure how that syncs with the 'left wingers are the problem' narrative, and as for Section with his very accurate descriptions of both sides, basically Centrists 'salt of the earth' , Socialists 'cunts' I dont know where to start.