Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[Guest Pistonbroke]

I can assure you the language was my own work. Ive no idea if anyone else has suggested it. I used it as an example which seems to have escaped one or two people's thinking.

 

Regarding the vote, I think you're being a tad hysterical. I'll accept whatever the vote is. My big fear is and this is why Im voting to leave, is the UK will be sidelined, will become a second class member and will be ridden over by the other Eu members.

 

Perfect meaning of the word "Irony." 

Clearly pistonbroke isnt prepared to say what the Key elements he was talking about or why he thinks Germany and France fucked off their fiscal independence and their currencies.

 

The key elements don't need explaining, "Key" is self explanatory, trying to enforce a common language (which is why this debate is taking place) onto state members is pretty key. 

 

Enjoy your evening, no point carrying on. 

[jimmycase]

Perfect meaning of the word "Irony." 

 

The key elements don't need explaining, "Key" is self explanatory, trying to enforce a common language (which is why this debate is taking place) onto state members is pretty key. 

 

Enjoy your evening, no point carrying on. 

 

Ah, trying to avoid not one but two questions Ive now asked and, clearly explained the example of language. it could have been judicial systems, it could have been control of armed forces, it could have been anything else I thought of.

 

Once again, the language point was to illustrate what could happen if the majority of EU members agreed to the change.

 

You havent stated what your key elements are where the UK could use its veto (if it still had it) despite me posting a list agreed under the Treaty of Lisbon where QVM is the de facto method of determination.

 

You also said could I see the French and the Germans fucking off their language. I pointed out they fucked off their fiscal independence and fucked off their currencies so could you be sure they wouldnt do something so radical as language (as an example again)?

[Guest Pistonbroke]

I've often wondered what would happen if the rest of the EU were voting on whether they wanted the UK as a member of the EU, I reckon it would be far more entertaining than listening to debates based on immigration and borders. We could even take it one step further, would the commonwealth want the UK if put to a vote? 

[jimmycase]

I've often wondered what would happen if the rest of the EU were voting on whether they wanted the UK as a member of the EU, I reckon it would be far more entertaining than listening to debates based on immigration and borders. We could even take it one step further, would the commonwealth want the UK if put to a vote? 

 

There's more to it than immigration and borders as far as Im concerned.

 

Look, we arent going to agree but I come back to my point. If the UK is to embrace the EU, its got to go full on. That means shenken, it means joining the Euro etc. its supposed to be the European Union but the UK wants to keep opting out of this, opting out of that. I can well understand German and french frustration.

 

We keep opting out so we'll become sidelined and the majority of the EU members will just continue to greater union and we'll be in the halfway house, neither fully in or full out.

[cloggypop]

How does Schengen (I presume that's what you mean) work for an island?

[Guest Pistonbroke]

There's more to it than immigration and borders as far as Im concerned.

 

Look, we arent going to agree but I come back to my point. If the UK is to embrace the EU, its got to go full on. That means shenken, it means joining the Euro etc. its supposed to be the European Union but the UK wants to keep opting out of this, opting out of that. I can well understand German and french frustration.

 

We keep opting out so we'll become sidelined and the majority of the EU members will just continue to greater union and we'll be in the halfway house, neither fully in or full out.

 

It doesn't......The EU are not enforcing this on the UK, in fact they have bowed down to the UK on immigration and given you "Special" rights. They haven't once said that the UK should be part of "Schengen" despite the fact you want to travel where the fuck you like within the EC but control your own borders. Other countries within the EU are also not complient with  "Schengen" as it is not compulsory to do so and yet be part of the EU.  All this immigration acceptance is bollocks, the UK have taken in diddly shit compared to their European counterparts. 

[Guest Pistonbroke]

How does Schengen (I presume that's what you mean) work for an island?

 

Bastard, I was waiting to see if he would pick that up in my reply. 

[Rico1304]

Sorry, that makes no sense. The list is the list as per the Treaty of Lisbon where QMV is the method to determine whether the subject matter is passed or not.

 

The question was addressed to pistonbroke seeing as he asserted the UK could veto key elements it does not agree with pertaining to EU policy. The list is comprehensive so he could identify what he meant by key elements.

Sigh

[Strontium]

I won't quote them to keep the page readable but which of those scares you? Space, sport, tourism?

 

Space must be well scary for 'kippers, especially the prospect of alien life. Immigrants from one planet is overwhelming enough for them, imagine a butt load of little green men trying to immigrate too!

[njackets]

Not really, you need to just stop listening to the scaremonger racist cunts like Farage. The UK will still be fine and dandy within the EU if they vote to stay in, they will still be at the top table with Germany, France, Italy and Spain.

 

Now to the highlighted bit.

 

This debate started due to your absurd comment about a standard language within the EU: Such a key point cannot be passed by a majority. Could you seriously see France and Germany fucking off their national language? A policy such as this (which would never come to fruition imo) would just mark the end of the EU as the population of certain countries would just point blank refuse to accept it!

There's more than enough scaremongering going on in here based on what the Tories might to to us if we leave.

[Stu Monty]

What if the EU decided that speaking one language isn't enough but that we also have to hop everywhere instead of walking? Eh? You haven't thought this stuff through properly, have you!?

 

Guys, seriously, you're as well talk to the fucking cat about the issue.

[Sugar Ape]

The Cat said what if the EU makes all cats eat Whiskas cat food when he likes Felix?

[Stu Monty]

The Cat said what if the EU makes all cats eat Whiskas cat food when he likes Felix?

Did he say "What if the majority of Europe decides..." then talk about how it's undemocratic, to, you know, do what the majority decide?

 

Typical cat move that.

[Anubis]

You fools. The cats are running the EU from their secret underwater base in Lake Geneva. The money they are creaming off from our national contributions is being used to purchase an unlimited supply of catnip.

[VladimirIlyich]

Is jimmycase the re-emergence of PooScouserTommy who wouldnt talk to the Polish workers at his place?

[njackets]

The language thing is not as ridiculous as it sounds, they've got rid of borders more or less between EU countries, given us all the same laws.

 

Tried to give us all the same money (If you'd suggested all that was going to happen about 50 years ago no doubt you'd of got ridiculed then.

 

Whats the next step? Get rid of nation states, an EU Army? (Its not like this isn't being talked about already) surely it would suit to have everyone speaking the same language within the EU? I would say 50 years down the line if the EU goes the way it wants to go there is more likely a chance of this happening than not!

[cloggypop]

It is as ridiculous as it sounds. It's daft.

[VladimirIlyich]

The language thing is not as ridiculous as it sounds, they've got rid of borders more or less between EU countries, given us all the same laws.

 

Tried to give us all the same money (If you'd suggested all that was going to happen about 50 years ago no doubt you'd of got ridiculed then.

 

Whats the next step? Get rid of nation states, an EU Army? (Its not like this isn't being talked about already) surely it would suit to have everyone speaking the same language within the EU? I would say 50 years down the line if the EU goes the way it wants to go there is more likely a chance of this happening than not!

And I was just beginning to think you were taking a more balanced view regarding the European debate.

[Bobby Hundreds]

I hate the thought of being in the EU and being out of it. It's one giant dog turd either or. It needs reforming drastically, to do that you need to be in it the only problem is, is it won't be reformed because it's been took over by a gang of corporate/banking cabal of cunts. I have zero faith in any system now because the corruption is just too deep. Any cunt whose been to a bilderberg meeting id ban from public office for a start, conspiratorial or not. I'd knee cap the banks, enough is enough. Same with the arms industry and big pharma. Seriously though the power does whats in the interest of the powerful and fuck everything else, it's irrelevant.

 

The EU will turn to shit but Britain will turn to shit a lot quicker without it. The too often repeated saying that a camel is a horse designed by committee is true, a good idea has turned into a giant mutated octobear of shite because we focus on shite and ignore the fundamentals. It should begin with absolute laws, Justice, the protection of the planet, the well being of the people and equality for all, like fucking iRobot's three laws of robotics, no circumnavigating each law for profit. The constant chase for profit at any cost is killing us, pushing us backwards where it used to propel us forward. Biggest profit comes from manipulating money and markets including politicians and the media rather than production and skills. People on a whole need to become more political, I'm starting to think the union of people across europe inspiring each other to protest improves our chances much more than relying on an isolated British who aren't even arsed when a politician uses tax payers money to build a moat or buy a house and flip it, because we are fucking peasants who are used to being fucked. Us Brits become arsed when some fucker who has lost his job still has a flat screen TV, the cheeky bastard.

 

Some old woman I know her Husband has just died suddenly and he was her carer, now she has to go in a home and has to sell her house to pay for it, she is devastated and has lost it all, she said they get it all in the end one way or another. There might not be a way around that but it kind of depressed me nonetheless. As a race you'd hope the ambition would be for a kind of utopia where the main concern was the well being of each other, not this new future of frugality and degrading standards for the poor opposing the sheer excess and total control for the wealthy. Imagine what I was like when I was stoned, even my mind would leave the room.

[cloggypop]

Just watched Brexit the movie. It's slickly made neoliberal propaganda from Martin Durkin who has previous for this sort of unbalanced "documentary" including The Great Global Warming Swindle.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Global_Warming_Swindle

 

It features appallingly lazy national stereotypes and the likes of Kelvin MacKenzie and James Delingpole as the voice of the people, reason and common sense.

 

Pre WW1 Britain seems to be the utopia. A world of unregulated industrial revolution. This is also the world of course of Empire, kids in factories, no unions and worker's rights and no universal vote.

 

Not recommended. Big steaming pile of shite out of ten.

 

[mattyq]

Is jimmycase the re-emergence of PooScouserTommy who wouldnt talk to the Polish workers at his place?

Normally I enjoy a good mentalist on this place as much as anyone

But he's full on mental as in properly so...it's a little disturbing to know there are actually people out there who believe in this shite

[jimmycase]

It is as ridiculous as it sounds. It's daft.

 

It is an example to illustrate a potential outcome. I could just as easily have suggested standardising driving on the left throughout the EU. It seems some people have trouble grasping the concept.

 

Mind, you probably said the same thing before the Germans, French, Italians, greeks etc gave up their currencies and fiscal independence for the single currency. Why did that happen? Because they all thought it was a good idea and agreed to it.

[cloggypop]

Is the concept that all foreigners want the same thing and it's not what the much better British people want?

[jimmycase]

Is the concept that all foreigners want the same thing and it's not what the much better British people want?

 

Why the fuck are you going on about 'foreigners'?

 

You're talking about the EU where member states determine policy. Except the UK wants to opt out of virtually everything while still being part of the club.

 

Do you not see that if the UK continues to opt out or veto's other EU policy it doesnt like (if it still has an effective veto, that is) that the rest of the EU will push on with the changes they want and the UK will become a 2nd class member of this club?

[cloggypop]

Are you saying that the UK should drop all opt out clauses and jump fully in?