Carl Froch Vs George Groves II

[DanDanShaw]

Sound to me like a bit of straw clutching from you Dan.  I think he may have been overrated slightly but I do think he was a good champion.  The only fight that doesnt really count for me was the Roy Jones fight.  Imo Jones at his peak would have handled Calzaghe easy.

 

Froch deserves all the credit he gets imo.  I've been an admirer of him for a long time.  He went down in my estimation a lot with the way he carried on after the first Groves fight but he proved he's the real deal still with that k.o as I thought he was going to lose heavily.  Talks a lot of shit but a good champion and I hope he gets his day out in Vegas and I'll be behind him all the way. 

 

From old man Chris Eubank to beating Ashira (just before the big Lacy fight) - name a fight there that he'd of even been less than 1/10 to win at the time.  Have any of those opponents gone on to win trinket or title in boxing?

 

I probably am clutching straws on Kessler a bit, he was still very good then, but he did improve after the Calzaghe fight.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Calzaghe was boss.

[KMD7]

From old man Chris Eubank to beating Ashira (just before the big Lacy fight) - name a fight there that he'd of even been less than 1/10 to win at the time.  Have any of those opponents gone on to win trinket or title in boxing?

 

I probably am clutching straws on Kessler a bit, he was still very good then, but he did improve after the Calzaghe fight.

 

 

Mate I can see your point but were there that many big fights he could have made anyway? The Glen Johnson fight definitely should have been made but I still think he would have beaten Jonson. I think at that time a peak Jones or Hopkins would have beaten him but he would have beaten everyone else out there at the time imo. It does rankle with me that he has Jones on his record as I was a huge Jones fan but I think Calzaghe deserves credit too,  His hands were very brittle for a latter part of his career too which hampered his punching power.

[DanDanShaw]

Mate I can see your point but were there that many big fights he could have made anyway? The Glen Johnson fight definitely should have been made but I still think he would have beaten Jonson. I think at that time a peak Jones or Hopkins would have beaten him but he would have beaten everyone else out there at the time imo. It does rankle with me that he has Jones on his record as I was a huge Jones fan but I think Calzaghe deserves credit too,  His hands were very brittle for a latter part of his career too which hampered his punching power.

 

Jones, Hopkins (prime), Johnson, Tarver - himself and Warren told all these guys they had to come to Wales to fight him.  He wasn't the big name or money man in the division, he was clearly ducking them.  Fights also could have easily been made with Chad Dawson (always said he wasn't a big enough name) plus he turned down a career high purse to fight Pavlik.  You could even say Taylor, who Pavlik went on to beat. 

 

There were loads of great fights to be made, plus he retired as all the serious threats came through.

[Spy Bee]

Fancy retiring at 37!

[aws]

When Calzaghe was in his prime everybody avoided him - particularly the rated Americans. None of them would come over to fight him. They wanted the champion to travel to their backyard for a smaller slice of the purse.

 

Funnily enough as he  passed his prime and his brittle hands meant he no longer had the finishing power of his early years, other fighters stopped ducking him. They still lost though.

[Boss]

He did beat a few future world champions like Kessler and Bika. Dan is right in what he's saying though, he didn't know what kind of level he was at until near the end of his career. He did duck Johnson and many other challenges, infact he freely admits he nearly pulled out of quite a few fights because of nerves, his father was the one who had to persuade him to not pull out.

 

He'd of beaten Pavlik, Johnson and Taylor though, his resume could of been excellent if he had the confidence in his ability earlier on in his career and took more risks, but he never took any whatsoever until he was in his mid 30's.

[Lee909]

Until Joe fought Lacey he was inly the WBO champion and had neither the belt or pulling power to make the top champion come to Wales. He only got the big name titles late

[DanDanShaw]

When Calzaghe was in his prime everybody avoided him - particularly the rated Americans. None of them would come over to fight him. They wanted the champion to travel to their backyard for a smaller slice of the purse.

 

Funnily enough as he  passed his prime and his brittle hands meant he no longer had the finishing power of his early years, other fighters stopped ducking him. They still lost though.

 

HAHA that's a cool spin on it - but you're ignoring the fact that Roy Jones Jr had one of the most lucrative contracts in boxing history (at the time), HBO were paying opponents big money to fight him.  Joe ducked all the big names, while defending his paper title at home.  His resume is terrible.

 

Most American's laugh at the mention of him as a great boxer, it's only the British who really rate him. 

 

Until Joe fought Lacey he was inly the WBO champion and had neither the belt or pulling power to make the top champion come to Wales. He only got the big name titles late

 

The WBO meant about as much as a "Regular" WBA title back then as well.

 

 

He did beat a few future world champions like Kessler and Bika. Dan is right in what he's saying though, he didn't know what kind of level he was at until near the end of his career. He did duck Johnson and many other challenges, infact he freely admits he nearly pulled out of quite a few fights because of nerves, his father was the one who had to persuade him to not pull out.

 

He'd of beaten Pavlik, Johnson and Taylor though, his resume could of been excellent if he had the confidence in his ability earlier on in his career and took more risks, but he never took any whatsoever until he was in his mid 30's.

 

Beat him with the same stick as Mayweather.  Both their resumes could be a whos who of world boxing, but both have decided to pick and choose who they fought.  Floyd because he makes money regardless, Joe because he didn't fancy the jobs.

[A Red]

Resumes.........aaaargh!!!

 

Sorry, as you were.

[Remmie]

Yeah Dan you big American, it's CV not resume.

[index1000]

Until Joe fought Lacey he was inly the WBO champion and had neither the belt or pulling power to make the top champion come to Wales. He only got the big name titles late

so they don't count then?... for fucks sake, 

[index1000]

It's not really that hard to build up a good record fighting easy opposition, or get organisations on side when you can shift 50,000 tickets.  He was only ever the betting underdog twice in his career.  I don't even dislike Calzaghe - I dislike Froch, so I'm always biased against him but I just don't rate Calzaghe's career. 

 

Out of his 46 fights, how many of them would you rate as legit great wins, and I don't mean now - I mean then?  Jeff Lacy was a hype job, but feared so I'll give you that - but then flip reverse it, you've got Kessler who he beat - Kessler NOW looks like a great win, but everybody considered him too green back then.

this is the biggest pile of shit you have posted mate, what a fucking ludicrous statement from a guy with a pen, paper and a massive chip on their shoulder over something i can not even be bothered to think about let alone try and fathom.

You said only a few posts ago that you hate Calzaghe more than Froch now you are saying you don't dislike him you don't rate him. Who gives a fuck to be honest. 

 

For someone who likes boxing you don't seem to like many boxers, it is like me saying i Love football and Liverpool but anyone who isn't King Kenny, Shanks or Paisley is a cunt because they have never achieved anything or are 'arrogant, etc, etc'  

 

Guess what ,you banged on endlessly about Groves would do this etc etc and Froch was old and shit blah blah blah then Groves got fucking smashed, destroyed. I posted then ' i wonder how DD would spin this to make it look like Froch was shit well now we have seen... a ludicrous strawman argument where you drag Calzaghe in.. i cannot be bothered with it anymore

[Lee909]

so they don't count then?... for fucks sake,

Who said they dont count?

 

I said he wasn't the premier champion in the division so he had no power to demand the divisions top men travel to him. Warren did it with plenty of fighters and is why he ended up loosing them

[sh#t waffle]

.

[Spy Bee]

But Chisora hey!!!

[DanDanShaw]

this is the biggest pile of shit you have posted mate, what a fucking ludicrous statement from a guy with a pen, paper and a massive chip on their shoulder over something i can not even be bothered to think about let alone try and fathom.

You said only a few posts ago that you hate Calzaghe more than Froch now you are saying you don't dislike him you don't rate him. Who gives a fuck to be honest. 

 

For someone who likes boxing you don't seem to like many boxers, it is like me saying i Love football and Liverpool but anyone who isn't King Kenny, Shanks or Paisley is a cunt because they have never achieved anything or are 'arrogant, etc, etc'  

 

Guess what ,you banged on endlessly about Groves would do this etc etc and Froch was old and shit blah blah blah then Groves got fucking smashed, destroyed. I posted then ' i wonder how DD would spin this to make it look like Froch was shit well now we have seen... a ludicrous strawman argument where you drag Calzaghe in.. i cannot be bothered with it anymore

 

I'm not mystic fucking meg, I thought Groves would win from the evidence of the first fight, I was wrong.  I didn't put any spin on it, Groves was knocked out, end of.  If I said I hate Calzaghe, I'd of meant the in-ring Calzaghe, I think he's good on Sky, always insightful.

 

I like loads of boxers, so because I dislike Haye, Froch and Brook - don't rate Calzaghe, I don't "seem to like many boxers".  Considering the amount of fighters I follow around the country (world in some cases) I don't think that's a very fair thing to throw at me.

 

"this is the biggest pile of shit you have posted mate" - Sven Ottke, Deontay Wilder, Samson Dutch Boy Gym, Joan Guzman(until his last fight) - the list is endless of undefeated boxers who are fucking shite and have even worse records.  Are you Welsh?  Apologies for not rating an apparent national hero.  I just have a hard time giving credit to a coke head, who fought all of his career against joke opponents, at home - and then beat up a couple of OAPs in America and became an ATG.

 

Froch / Groves has finished, my guy lost.  I think this should either stay here, or go to the universal boxing thread.  While we let this thread die.

 

But Chisora hey!!!

 

Leave Dell out of this, he's going to KO Fury.  He won't let me down like Groves.