Safe Standing.

[VladimirIlyich]

It's called safe standing for a reason. How could you possibly predict a disaster in 20+ years time?

The same way you could have before ours. Tottenham v Wolves SF in 1981 was almost a disaster,the Ibrox disaster in 1971. We never learn.

[moof]

The same way you could have before ours. Tottenham v Wolves SF in 1981 was almost a disaster,the Ibrox disaster in 1971. We never learn.

As far as I'm aware, there haven't been any near-disasters with safe standing. It's safe, that's the whole point.

[Jose Jones]

Err yeah, that's a load of weirdery for mine. As was Pidge's post earlier.

Safe standing would be brought in because the fans want it and based on already existing very safe models.

[VladimirIlyich]

As far as I'm aware, there haven't been any near-disasters with safe standing. It's safe, that's the whole point.

And none with seats in. So the clubs would say 'Why the added expense?'

I am not necessarily disagreeing with you but I simply dont trust anybody in the British game to make decisions based solely on safety and that would cost more. Don't believe its going to happen anytime soon.

[Pidge]

Err yeah, that's a load of weirdery for mine. As was Pidge's post earlier.

Safe standing would be brought in because the fans want it and based on already existing very safe models.

 

We don't know a single club's proposals on implementation, it's all speculation based on them presenting it as "safe". Which is just a manipulative PR technique by those lobbying for it at this stage.

 

People can point at Germany all they want, but what are the standards and implementation processes that the clubs and the bundesliga put in place to ensure they are safely managed?

[Trumo]

We don't know a single club's proposals on implementation, it's all speculation based on them presenting it as "safe". Which is just a manipulative PR technique by those lobbying for it at this stage.

 

People can point at Germany all they want, but what are the standards and implementation processes that the clubs and the bundesliga put in place to ensure they are safely managed?

 

There are a lot of people who have gone to places like Germany to see safe standing in action as well as speaking to a number of people about the pros and cons and any related issues. That includes ticketing, stewarding, policing and amenities. I'm not one of those who have done this myself and I can't point to a link but it's not simply a case of people wanting standing for standing's sake, and it's not just the views of those football fans who've gone to watch a Bundesliga game just to sample what it's like over there, and then said "yeah, we'll just do that."

 

The reason it's always brought up as 'safe standing' as opposed to just 'standing' is to clearly differentiate it from the cramped caged free-for-alls that led to disasters like Hillsborough. You can take all the precautions in the world but still something bad could happen. The important thing is to make sure all the safeguards that are possible are studied, developed and implemented if safe standing is brought in. We know for a fact that many serious issues were ignored and/or not implemented and it bubbled over at Hillsborough. The ignorance had gone on for a lot longer and indeed much of it continued long after that tragedy.

 

Financial models and revenue generation plans (scourges of the modern game, if you like) should only be devised once a safe standing 'system' has been created to take all of the relevant issues and concerns into account. If it requires a new set of regulations, then it requires proper research and discussion first.

 

Yesterday, I said that if it did come in, it would be on a 1:1 basis. Your ticket is for a specific spot like it would be for a seat - you can't just go where you like as in the bad old days. If they decide on a higher ratio such as 1:1¼ (25% more fans in the same spot), then a row of 20 seats could accommodate 25 fans. Each would still have a ticket for a specific spot I would imagine, or at least a ticket which states which specific section and row it's for. I can't verify this but I think some of the German clubs have painted lines in each row indicating a designated space for each standing fan.

 

Whichever side you take, I think it's important for both sides to discuss the pros and cons as well as bringing to light any issues and concerns. Only then can it be determined whether to go ahead or not. It is the blinkered views that can mean things are not looked into properly.

[JustTosh]

The point is to make sure the fans are safe. Danger of congestion is only one of several things to be concerned about.

 

After the Taylor report some seem to believe congestion is less likely to occur when people sit down. I’d say it’s totally beside the point whether they sit or stand. The point is how much space there’s available for each spectator, and is it possible for the crowd to somehow be squeezed together.

 

However unlikely in an all seater I’d argue congestion is even less likely to occur with safe standing. People standing in an all seater do imply some risk of people falling on top of eachother being pushed by falling people from behind you. In a safe standing that simply can’t happen. 

[JustTosh]

There are a lot of people who have gone to places like Germany to see safe standing in action as well as speaking to a number of people about the pros and cons and any related issues. That includes ticketing, stewarding, policing and amenities. I'm not one of those who have done this myself and I can't point to a link but it's not simply a case of people wanting standing for standing's sake, and it's not just the views of those football fans who've gone to watch a Bundesliga game just to sample what it's like over there, and then said "yeah, we'll just do that."

 

The reason it's always brought up as 'safe standing' as opposed to just 'standing' is to clearly differentiate it from the cramped caged free-for-alls that led to disasters like Hillsborough. You can take all the precautions in the world but still something bad could happen. The important thing is to make sure all the safeguards that are possible are studied, developed and implemented if safe standing is brought in. We know for a fact that many serious issues were ignored and/or not implemented and it bubbled over at Hillsborough. The ignorance had gone on for a lot longer and indeed much of it continued long after that tragedy.

 

Financial models and revenue generation plans (scourges of the modern game, if you like) should only be devised once a safe standing 'system' has been created to take all of the relevant issues and concerns into account. If it requires a new set of regulations, then it requires proper research and discussion first.

 

Yesterday, I said that if it did come in, it would be on a 1:1 basis. Your ticket is for a specific spot like it would be for a seat - you can't just go where you like as in the bad old days. If they decide on a higher ratio such as 1:1¼ (25% more fans in the same spot), then a row of 20 seats could accommodate 25 fans. Each would still have a ticket for a specific spot I would imagine, or at least a ticket which states which specific section and row it's for. I can't verify this but I think some of the German clubs have painted lines in each row indicating a designated space for each standing fan.

 

Whichever side you take, I think it's important for both sides to discuss the pros and cons as well as bringing to light any issues and concerns. Only then can it be determined whether to go ahead or not. It is the blinkered views that can mean things are not looked into properly.

 

This is a very sensible post. Totally agree.

[JustTosh]

I found this from an article in the Telegraph. Maybe we should worry more about this than merely discussing standing vs sitting, People juming up and down togheter on  a stand is severely challenging to the buiding's structure, It might not hold. Discussing sitting or standing is taking the focus off  the real dangers.

 

 

Worrying evidence exists that certain stands built solely for seats are not strong enough to withstand fans standing, swaying and jumping up and down. Given excessive movement by fans on their feet, structures can become, in technical parlance, "excited". Liverpool's Anfield Road Stand upper tier moved during the visit of Celtic, forcing its closure for remedial work before the season."

[Pidge]

Whichever side you take, I think it's important for both sides to discuss the pros and cons as well as bringing to light any issues and concerns. Only then can it be determined whether to go ahead or not. It is the blinkered views that can mean things are not looked into properly.

 

I entirely agree

[VladimirIlyich]

Are people prepared to pay even more,yet again,to redesign seating back to 'safe' standing areas? Its not going to be done for free.

[moof]

Are people prepared to pay even more,yet again,to redesign seating back to 'safe' standing areas? Its not going to be done for free.

They can use the money we saved on transfers. Job done.

[navbasi]

Are people prepared to pay even more,yet again,to redesign seating back to 'safe' standing areas? Its not going to be done for free.

No way FSG would do it even if we did get the go ahead. They've been crying about the Anfield Road development recently. Taking out perfectly good seats in the Kop to put in rail seats just so a fan can stand won't make business sense to them, unless they have the 1:1.5 ratio and able to charge a bit more. They "might" think about it then..

[kemskem]

No way FSG would do it even if we did get the go ahead. They've been crying about the Anfield Road development recently. Taking out perfectly good seats in the Kop to put in rail seats just so a fan can stand won't make business sense to them, unless they have the 1:1.5 ratio and able to charge a bit more. They "might" think about it then..

If they can be convinced that it can improve the atmosphere and boost the whole match-day experience for day-trippers, they might be interested.

[Kloppite]

I think it should happen but i feel we are too far down the road of all seater stands.

 

There are some people on the kop who want to sit so if you introduce an safe standing kop it would cause problems trying to find them somewhere else at the same price.

 

Another hurdle is that it is against the law to stand in premier league stadiums in this country.

 

Would the powers that be firstly want to allow safe standing and even though unlikely potentially another disaster on their hands and secondly lfc bothering their arses for no benefit to them

[jimmycase]

They can use the money we saved on transfers. Job done.

 

What transfer did Klopp want to make that he couldnt bring in? You're just talking about wasting money to satisfy your piss poor vanity.

[moof]

What transfer did Klopp want to make that he couldnt bring in? You're just talking about wasting money to satisfy your piss poor vanity.

The fuck you talking bout?

 

I don't particularly give a fuck that we made a profit in the transfer window, or that we've got a gargantuan tv deal and a new stand to supplement revenue. I was responding to a claim that implementing safe standing would have to come out of the fans pockets when the club could and should easily cover it with all that extra cash we should have floating about.

 

Wasting money to satisfy my vanity? Get the fuck outta here with that shit.

[VladimirIlyich]

I think it should happen but i feel we are too far down the road of all seater stands.

 

There are some people on the kop who want to sit so if you introduce an safe standing kop it would cause problems trying to find them somewhere else at the same price.

 

Another hurdle is that it is against the law to stand in premier league stadiums in this country.

 

Would the powers that be firstly want to allow safe standing and even though unlikely potentially another disaster on their hands and secondly lfc bothering their arses for no benefit to them

I dont think there is actually a law against standing ( I may be wrong of course) I think its more about recommendations and appearing to do the right thing while screwing the fans as hard as possible.

[jimmycase]

It is a legal requirement ie the law, to have all seater stadium in the top 2 flights of English football since 1994. Since that time, standing was banned although many people ignore this requirement.

[VladimirIlyich]

It is a legal requirement ie the law, to have all seater stadium in the top 2 flights of English football since 1994. Since that time, standing was banned although many people ignore this requirement.

I stand corrected.(No pun intended)

[navbasi]

‘Safe standing’ would not be a return to English football’s dark ages

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/oct/09/safe-standing-hillsborough-rail-seating-bundesliga-celtic

[xerxes]

It is a legal requirement ie the law, to have all seater stadium in the top 2 flights of English football since 1994. Since that time, standing was banned although many people ignore this requirement.

 

Confusing , isn't it?

 

it isn't illegal to stand, it is just a legal requirement that there are seats. The clubs have to abide by licensing authorities, and the licensing authorities may decide hat fans should sit:

http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safe-standing/the-legalities-of-standing/

[njackets]

The whole Kop will be stood on Monday night for the Mancs, safe standing = better atmosphere, cheaper tickets and more people in the ground I'm all for it!

[VladimirIlyich]

The whole Kop will be stood on Monday night for the Mancs, safe standing = better atmosphere, cheaper tickets and more people in the ground I'm all for it!

I disagree with your cheaper tickets equation. The supporter will foot the bill in admission for the cost of redesign.

[njackets]

I disagree with your cheaper tickets equation. The supporter will foot the bill in admission for the cost of redesign.

Not necessarily, they could go down the naming rights road for example? They can't charge more to stand, I can't see this ever happening anyway unfortunately.